Engineers Engineering Rant

While Engineers were improved in 3.0, the actual logic behind them bothers me to this day, and I really wish Frontier had implemented an entirely different system.

Engineers feel like a copy-n-paste of the crafting system in games like ESO. In that game, you "farm" materials - plants for clothes, animals for leather armor, and metal for weapons and heavy armor. It's logical, and it's kinda fun for those of us who like picking flowers out in the beautiful countryside. However, one can get high-quality weapons and armor without ever touching a crafting table. I also believe (it's been a long time since I've played), that one can buy and sell these materials. I enjoy crafting in ESO.

In ED, you are not crafting, you are gathering common materials from illogical places to give to an Engineer. Need iron or zinc? Go smash some rocks. This makes a bit more sense in medieval ESO, not so much in a galaxy where rare palladium is sold on the open market. Need electronic parts? Blow up some spaceships. A clothier killing a wolf for leather makes sense, but even in 2018, I don't go blowing up cars to get capacitors, I order them from Digikey or Mouser. And if I, a mere hobbyist, have an account with Digikey, surely the Engineer would as well. Oh, and don't get me started on the massless, weightless qualities of these materials.

Thing is, I do like the actual process of customizing my weapons and armor, which is the purpose of the Engineers. So what is my alternative? Arms Dealers.

Here's how it would work - you would "unlock" arms dealers similar to how we currently unlock Engineers. Instead of "engineering" the weapons you currently own, they would sell customized weapons. The higher the grade of weapon, the more you pay. And simplify things - 5 grades, each at their max (none of this RNG percentage crap). Speaking of simple, this simplifies the game considerably, because we're using the "universal solvent" - money. It just makes sense.

We interrupt this rant for the following message - CREDITS ARE NOT EVIL!

Now I'm not suggesting that we remove farming from the game. You could still pick up parts from destroyed ships and metals from planets and asteroids. There are two things I would change: 1) make materials have weight and take up space, thus requiring a cargo bay to gather, and 2) make materials just another commodity that can be bought and sold. This way a person who enjoys farming can still do so with a benefit, but it's not forced on us. And on this note,

We end this rant with the following message - CREDITS ARE NOT EVIL!

Credits allow me to play the game my way. I can deliver passengers to earn those credits, I can explore to earn those credits, I can bounty hunt to earn those credits. And credits just make sense - if I want a 50cal rifle with infrared scope, I'm not going to take a pickaxe to the rocks in the backyard and blow up a car to strip it of electronics. No, I'll pay top dollar to a arms dealer. Now if I chose to earn that money by stripping cars of their parts, well, that actually happens in the real world (legally: junkyards, illegally: car thieves).

[/rant]
 
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Well...ish. Currently it's a level playing field since everyone has to gather the same mats, and they're not going to have significantly more due the the time they've been playing the game. Whereas credits...I'm on 1,700+hrs and I've got 1.5BCr.

Not a level playing field.
 
Engineers is very much a crafting/enchantment system you see in other MMOs and I feel a lot of it was done to please and to keep standard MMO players happy and give them something familiar. That said engineers is no longer that time consuming as long as you do it once you've got 40-50 hours plus under your belt. Naturally by trading, mining and doing missions you should easily get materials to trade up and down at materials traders. I quite enjoy driving around planets resource gathering.

My only real moan is the unlock requirements because we're sold Elite as being able to do what you want go where you want. However to unlock engineers you need to trade, mine a bit, do combat and explore... how does that fit the meta of doing what you want? I have one friend who is a trader and has no interest in exploration or combat yet he had to buy and fit a new ship for these activities. Of course he fights the odd NPC but he doesn't want a combat ship full time. The same applies to another friend who enjoys exploration and a bit of mining. In order to get the improved FSD and lightweight modules he had to buy a new ship to do combat as his Diamondback and ASP and buy a whole range of trade modules.

Engineers need multiple unlock requirements to suit all players then it'll be a perfect system.

In my opinion you don't need engineers to enjoy PvE Elite Dangerous but they do make life a lot nicer for commanders.

The cigars thing did make me a bit ragey!
 
Credits are not evil. In fact they are benign. FDev made them worthless by making progression several magnitudes too fast.
Engineering by purchase is pointless.
 
I'd prefer if it engineers were modular/socketed upgrades.

You get modules with more or less sockets, rare modules have more and are worth more. Yay!
Sockets themselves are modular with fixed stat improvements and downsides, so you can add and remove them in flight.
You can craft them, buy them, earn them, and find them.
They're also a cargo item. So you can trade them.... and steal them. :p
(An actual reason for PvP!)

Done!

Then weapon mods can be switched on the fly to suit your needs instead of flying home and refitting your ship.

Probably has many downsides. But I don't care, because I won't happen. :p

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
 
I'd prefer if it engineers were modular/socketed upgrades.

You get modules with more or less sockets, rare modules have more and are worth more. Yay!
Sockets themselves are modular with fixed stat improvements and downsides, so you can add and remove them in flight.
You can craft them, buy them, earn them, and find them.
They're also a cargo item. So you can trade them.... and steal them. :p
(An actual reason for PvP!)

Done!

Then weapon mods can be switched on the fly to suit your needs instead of flying home and refitting your ship.

Probably has many downsides. But I don't care, because I won't happen. :p

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

You played too much Hack & Slay.
 
Theoretically you would not even need Arms Dealers if the RNGineered weapons would be in line with regular equipment of various grades, which is already being... drum-roll... sold for credits via outfitting. That's why some of us argued that the power creep coming with RNGineers serves no purpose and is actually making the game worse.

In order to mask the simplicity of the crafting system, the developers had to cackle substantially after laying their RNGineers egg, and they did so by making them utterly overpowered.
 
Please change the names to Engineers!!! They're not engineers at all, they are after market mechanics!
An engineer can repeat the same process over and over with the same result because there is science and methodology behind their works. Those guys can't even reproduce the same result on the same module 5 minutes later!

Engineers should be replaced with "US". Gaining the pilot ranks (Combat, Exploration, Trading) and superpower ranks (alliance, federation, empire) we gain access to the "facilities" and "the blueprints" where we can modifiy by ourself our ships and modules.

The basic "engineers" interface would not change!
 
This probably seems a bit abstract but the main thing that's always really bugged me is simply that they have a terrible business-model.

I mean, they ask you to do them a favour and then, after that, they do really complex work on shapeships for free, as long as you bring them the stuff they need.

That's kind of like bringing Gordon Ramsey a bottle of Scotch and then expecting him to cook meals for you as long as you bring him the ingredients.

How do these people earn a living?

Superficially, the concept is a decent one; bring your spaceship to some boffin and they'll upgrade it for you.
When you look at it more closely, however, the whole thing kind of falls apart.


Not really sure how I'd go about changing it to make it more plausible, more involving and more entertaining but I'm sure I could come up with something if required.
Having said that, engineers is what it is. It gets the job done and then you can go and do other things so, meh.

*EDIT*

Oh, go on then....

If it was me, I'd have set it up so the engineers are boffins who upgrade spaceships for a living.
When you unlock them, you're doing them a favour and, in return, they grant you access to their facilities.
You'd still be the one doing the work (thus explaining why you have to find the mat's yourself) but you're just using the engineer's facilities.
I'd also set it up so that every so often you had to do something else for the engineer in order to retain the use of their facilities.
I'd also also set it up so that they have mat's available in return for doing other things for them and they would do work for you if, again, you did other things for them.

The idea would be that you can scav' for mat's and then go and upgrade a module yourself or you could go and see the engineer and they might ask you to, say, deliver a load of valuable cargo for them, or destroy the ship of a customer who refused to pay in return for an upgrade.
It'd be up to you to decide whether you'd rather gather mat's and do your own upgrade or it might be quicker to do a mission for the engineer in return for mat's and/or an upgrade which might save you some scavving time.
 
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Credits are not money!

Credits are not money!

They are the Pilot's Federation equivalent to arcade tickets.

We sold our soul to the company store.
 
Credits are not evil. In fact they are benign. FDev made them worthless by making progression several magnitudes too fast.
Engineering by purchase is pointless.

I earned my credits - no cheats, no Road To Riches, no Sothis runs, no board hopping. I just played the game in an enjoyable way and slowly accrued wealth. Just because Donald Trump was handed his riches on a platter doesn't mean the entire population should have to pickaxe rocks and blow up cars in order to have nice things.
 
This probably seems a bit abstract but the main thing that's always really bugged me is simply that they have a terrible business-model.

I mean, they ask you to do them a favour and then, after that, they do really complex work on shapeships for free, as long as you bring them the stuff they need.

I always assumed we brought in a lot more materials than what they needed, but PFed credits don't help people who aren't active Commanders.
 
Not really sure how I'd go about changing it to make it more plausible, more involving and more entertaining but I'm sure I could come up with something if required.
Having said that, engineers is what it is. It gets the job done and then you can go and do other things so, meh.

Some of the unlock requirements could definitely do with tweaking. I fully get (and agree with) some of them, specifically those that make you try out game activities you may not have tried. For instance, somewhat to my surprise it turns out that not only do I quite enjoy mining, I also enjoy combat zones - two activities I'd studiously avoided until Engineer unlock requirements forced me into them.

But delivering 50 units of $STUFF when you're only going to sell me 5 at a time? That's not enjoyable. I think some of the Engineers should have multiple options for unlocking, including (possibly) a ton of cash. As you say, they've got to eat.
 
I always assumed we brought in a lot more materials than what they needed, but PFed credits don't help people who aren't active Commanders.

Yeah, that's something that you could tell yourself, if it wasn't for the fact they burn through the bloody things as they apply the upgrades.

If they said "Go and get me 10 widgets and 5t of gold" and you got a completed upgrade for that you could assume that the upgrade only took 3 widgets and 1t of gold and they just flogged the rest or used them to do other people's upgrades, which they charged credits for.

As it is, we see them burning though the mat's with every roll, so we know they're actually using all the stuff we bring them. [blah]
 
As it is, we see them burning though the mat's with every roll, so we know they're actually using all the stuff we bring them. [blah]

Also, I worry about stuff like Polymer Capacitors. I mean, half the time I've got them from ships that I know died a violent death (due to me), so they're not exactly in factory-fresh condition now, are they?
 
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