Escaping from Neutron Star/White Dwarf jets - A Technique

[domaq]

BOTTOM LINE: You CAN escape from White Dwarf/Newton Star jets
.
ADDED CAVEATs:
- I found it nearly impossible to find myself in normal space inside a jet plume without manual input.
- Real game world most likely occurrence will be if you enter the system at the wrong angle and are not paying attention.
- EVEN dropping on a NS exclusion zone does not mean you are automatically in the jet plume!
- As long as you stay in supercruise, FSD charging is easy to make a safe event.
.
BACKGROUND
With the imminent release of 2.2, I was looking at some worst case scenarios while using FSD boosts from White Dwarf stars. The results were not as definite as you might think.
.
10 tests accomplished [2.2 Beta 7] (details inside):

Spoiler

Test #1: Enter the jet via emergency stop at a random speed. Keep throttle in the “blue” while waiting for FSD cooldown. Escape using boost via high wake. No repair.
Ship: Anaconda
Result: Successful. Canopy at zero. On emergency oxygen.
.
Test #2: Enter the jet via emergency stop as close to 30km/s as possible. Keep throttle at full while waiting for FSD cooldown. Escape using boost via high wake. No repair.
Ship: Anaconda
Result: Unsuccessful. Could not align for exit. Canopy at zero. FSD malfunctions prevented escape.
.
Test #3: Enter the jet via emergency stop as close to 30km/s as possible. Keep throttle at full while waiting for FSD cooldown. Escape using boost via low wake. No repair.
Ship: Anaconda
Result: Unsuccessful. Could not align for exit. Canopy at zero. FSD malfunctions prevented escape.
.
Test #4: Enter the jet via emergency stop with throttle at full. Keep throttle at full while waiting for FSD cooldown. Escape using boost via low wake. No repairs.
Ship: Anaconda
Result: Unsuccessful. Could not align for exit before suffocation.
.
Test #5: Enter the jet via emergency stop with throttle at full. Reduce throttle to zero while waiting for FSD cooldown. Escape using boost to low wake. No repairs.
Ship: Anaconda
Result: Successful. Canopy at zero. On emergency oxygen.
.
Test #6: Enter the jet via emergency stop with throttle at full. Reduce throttle to zero while waiting for FSD cooldown. Escape using boost to low wake. AFMU repairing canopy while waiting for FSD cooldown.
Ship: Anaconda (exploration fit with 6A AFMU and enough power to run it with everything turned on).
Result: Successful. Canopy at 76%.
.
Test #7: Enter the jet via crashing into the star while in the jets. Reduce throttle to zero while waiting for FSD cooldown. Escape using boost to low wake. AFMU repairing canopy while waiting for FSD cooldown.
Ship: Anaconda (exploration fit with 6A AFMU and enough power to run it with everything turned on).
Result: Successful. Canopy at 47%.
.
Test #8: Enter the edge of the jet then drop via emergency stop at random speed. Reduce throttle to zero while waiting for FSD cooldown. Escape using boost to low wake.
Ship: Asp Explorer
Result: Successful. Canopy at 88%. Turbulence was very light and controllable.
.
Test #9: Enter the jet via emergency stop at random speed. Reduce throttle to “blue” section while waiting for FSD cooldown. Escape using boost to low wake.
Ship: Asp Explorer
Result: Successful. Canopy at zero. On emergency oxygen.
Aplifying remarks: Tried landing on a planet to jump into SRV and dismiss ship to repair canopy (previous exploit). Unsuccessful. The suffocation sounds at <30 sec remaining are disturbing!
.
Test #10: Enter the jet via emergency stop at random speed. Reduce throttle to “blue” section while waiting for FSD cooldown. Escape using boost to low wake.
Ship: Asp Explorer (with 5A AFMU)
Result: Successful. Canopy at zero. On emergency oxygen.
Aplifying remarks: After exiting the jet, drop into normal space in a safe area. Tried repairing the canopy while it was at 0%. No effect. 2 x Reboot/repair with canopy at 0%. No effect.

.
SUMMARY RESULTS: Escape achieved 6/10 times. Canopy at 0% 7/10.
#1 Most important action after entering normal space is throttle to zero. Entry speed does not matter.
#2 Must have boost capable power distributer for best chance of escape.
#3 If you have to wait for a full FSD cooldown, you will most likely lose your canopy (0%).
#3 Canopy at 0% means you must land at a station to repair. AFMU, reboot/repair, nor landing on a planet and dismissing your ship will fix it.
.
RECOMMENDATIONS:
- If you drop into normal space in the jets of a White Dwarf or Neutron Star:
-- Step 1: DON’T PANIC!
-- Step 2: Set throttle to zero as soon as possible to minimize speed oscillations. Your indicated speed will show your absolute speed, not where your ship is pointing. Throttle in either direction will not be helpful.
-- Step 2a: If you have an AFMU powered, start repairing the canopy while the FSD is cooling down. It will keep doing so until the canopy reaches 0%.
-- Step 3: Charge the FSD as soon as it is off cooldown.
-- Step 4: Once it is off cooldown, try to point away from the star. There is no point giving stick/throttle inputs prior to when you are ready to escape as inputs will be cancelled out by the random turbulence inputs.
-- Step 5: As soon as you are pointed away from the star, BOOST!! Your speed will change along with your vector for a short time. In most cases, this was enough to escape.
-- Step 6: If step 5 fails giving you some warning like “align with escape point,” the only thing you can do is give stick inputs away from the star and continue to boost. This did work after a few tries but the blood pressure was rising as well. Now is a good time to start panicking.
- Before using FSD boosts on a long-range exploration trip, practice dropping and escaping the jets in something cheap.
- If uncertain about your personal ability to escape, consider taking as large an AFMU as you can fit and the power to run it.
.
Please add to this if you can and Fly safe CMDRs.

 

[Manticore]

Thanks CMDR much appreciated!

 

[Aura Lorell]

Thanks for this Domaq. I don't have access to beta, but the two things I take from your experiment are:

1. You fly a big ship, Anaconda. For smaller ships, it sounds like doom and gloom.
2. Explorers, running builds for smaller ships (cobra, AspX, DBX) for maximised range--in other words minimal thrusters and no boost--should steer clear if they have much to lose. And by lose I mean mainly exploration data. A destroyed canopy tens of thousands of light years away from the closest station means certain destruction.

As I said before in many other posts, I do understand the "happiness" of the people who love such thrills but the exploration community needs to be told explicitly, because you guys have had plenty of practice in beta and you make it look easy. Losing weeks/months/years of exploration data because of a misunderstanding for the sake for a couple of minutes' thrill, is not cool or fun. The same goes for the fabled "highway" where people who had no practice and are headed to Jaques try it and find themselves on the rebuy screen without their cargo.

My personal opinion is that this is not a feature that is to be used by the masses of either long-term explorers, casual players, or players without the financial means for many rebuys (especially all those who had no access to beta). It's okay to take calculated risks that one can afford. But any other notion (i.e. exploration enhancement, highway, whatever) needs to be thought and presented extremely carefully.

 

[domaq]

Rhea,
A few of the tests were done with an AspX which was easier to manage than the Anaconda.
.
The key point I hope people understand is that I had to force myself into normal space to do these tests. Just getting your FSD boost and leaving the jet while in supercruise was extremely easy and safe.
.
The only time I took damage while in supercruise when charging was if I stayed there for more than 3x how long it took to charge; and that was only 1% hull. Even the damage to the FSD happened after the jump occurred and that was only 1%.
.
Practice a little before you go, take an AFMU, and enjoy the extra boosts. If you're already out in the void, be a bit more careful.

 

[Aura Lorell]

Rhea,
A few of the tests were done with an AspX which was easier to manage than the Anaconda.
.
The key point I hope people understand is that I had to force myself into normal space to do these tests. Just getting your FSD boost and leaving the jet while in supercruise was extremely easy and safe.
.
The only time I took damage while in supercruise when charging was if I stayed there for more than 3x how long it took to charge; and that was only 1% hull. Even the damage to the FSD happened after the jump occurred and that was only 1%.
.
Practice a little before you go, take an AFMU, and enjoy the extra boosts. If you're already out in the void, be a bit more careful.

Okay, that's interesting information, thank you so much domaq. I am out in the void and likely to stay for quite a long period. One crucial question is this: is there a chance that upon system entry one may end up inside the plumes? What I usually do when jumping to neutrons (especially given that I always have orbit lines off) is to kill my speed while in hyperspace. If there is a chance that I may end up inside the plume and dropped out of SC then I'll need to avoid NS/WD entirely as my Asp has no boost.

 

[domaq]

In 2.2, they have tried to more realistically model your entry into a system and the alignment of the follow-on system. Therefore, there is a very small chance that you could enter a NS system looking at the jet plume instead of perpendicular to it. I say very small chance because, in all my testing, I have never jumped into system looking directly down at the plume but it is theoretically possible.
.
Even if you did enter directly into the plume, your standard technique will serve you well. Zero throttle, even in the jet plume, will give you plenty of time and control to navigate away from the star exclusion zone (just like you do now) and then throttle up to leave the plume. In supercruise, the turbulence will throw you around a little bit but it's easily controllable with HOTAS or keyboard/mouse (the only ones I've tried).
.
I recommend, after 2.2, pick a known NS system and jump in. Have a look, take some pictures (because they're gorgeous), then enter the plume perpendicularly. Fly through it just to get a feel for the turbulence (whether you're in there long enough to get the boost or not). Another technique would be to fly parallel and ease into the fringes. That should allay any fears of their danger. And this is from someone who's made a few very long-range exploration trips ending up with <50% hull so I understand your consternation.

 

[Aura Lorell]

Thank you so much for this information. I'll avoid the plumes until I get to Jaques and get some practice with it.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

Reposting here from the Beta forums for my non-beta exploration brethren.
.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/298824-How-to-Escape-from-Neutron-Star-White-Dwarf-Jets

i'm a little lost, can you enter a system in the wrong place in 2.2, i.e. can using FA off before engaging SC keep you in a safe entry point when jumping into a NS or do all NS carry an element of risk if you chose to jump to the system?

in other words.... should i just not jump to Neutron systems?

 

[domaq]

You definitely can jump into NS systems. I have never entered the system looking down the "barrel" of the jet plume; always perpendicular to it. Theoretically, you could but I've just not seen it. Even if you do, per my post above, you can easily escape the jet plume. FA off used during these tests made no difference. Just stay in supercruise, avoid the exclusion zone of the star (like you always do), get a little FSD charge and jump on. If you don't drop into normal space inside the jet plume, there's little to be worried about.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

You definitely can jump into NS systems. I have never entered the system looking down the "barrel" of the jet plume; always perpendicular to it. Theoretically, you could but I've just not seen it. Even if you do, per my post above, you can easily escape the jet plume. FA off used during these tests made no difference. Just stay in supercruise, avoid the exclusion zone of the star (like you always do), get a little FSD charge and jump on. If you don't drop into normal space inside the jet plume, there's little to be worried about.

awesome thanks for the heads up and the testing, i wont have the luxury of pre-testing, im already in the black.. unless i open a new account on my xbox and travel to a NS in a free winder!

 

[Mysturji]

Thanks for this Domaq. I don't have access to beta, but the two things I take from your experiment are:

1. You fly a big ship, Anaconda. For smaller ships, it sounds like doom and gloom.
2. Explorers, running builds for smaller ships (cobra, AspX, DBX) for maximised range--in other words minimal thrusters and no boost--should steer clear if they have much to lose. And by lose I mean mainly exploration data. A destroyed canopy tens of thousands of light years away from the closest station means certain destruction.

As I said before in many other posts, I do understand the "happiness" of the people who love such thrills but the exploration community needs to be told explicitly, because you guys have had plenty of practice in beta and you make it look easy. Losing weeks/months/years of exploration data because of a misunderstanding for the sake for a couple of minutes' thrill, is not cool or fun. The same goes for the fabled "highway" where people who had no practice and are headed to Jaques try it and find themselves on the rebuy screen without their cargo.

My personal opinion is that this is not a feature that is to be used by the masses of either long-term explorers, casual players, or players without the financial means for many rebuys (especially all those who had no access to beta). It's okay to take calculated risks that one can afford. But any other notion (i.e. exploration enhancement, highway, whatever) needs to be thought and presented extremely carefully.

1. Not so. See the link I posted in Domaq's other thread for tips. I practiced in a Sidey at ER8, a white dwarf inside the bubble. There are other white dwarfs in the bubble too, and I found white dwarfs to be more dangerous than neutron stars, because of the relative size of the gravity line.
2. I think as long as you build a ship that has an AFMU and you can power it up without losing engines and/or FSD, (maybe practice deactivating shields quickly?) this is doable. Weighing benefit vs. risk is up to the individual.

I think this will be useful on my return to the bubble from Jaques, through the neutron field, in my Python, so I practiced.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

You definitely can jump into NS systems. I have never entered the system looking down the "barrel" of the jet plume; always perpendicular to it. Theoretically, you could but I've just not seen it. Even if you do, per my post above, you can easily escape the jet plume. FA off used during these tests made no difference. Just stay in supercruise, avoid the exclusion zone of the star (like you always do), get a little FSD charge and jump on. If you don't drop into normal space inside the jet plume, there's little to be worried about.

I've seen it. The first time I was like "Where are the jets?" , then I noticed a certain fuzziness around the star. As long as you zero throttle before or on arrival, you're safe.

 

[Aura Lorell]

1. Not so. See the link I posted in Domaq's other thread for tips. I practiced in a Sidey at ER8, a white dwarf inside the bubble. There are other white dwarfs in the bubble too, and I found white dwarfs to be more dangerous than neutron stars, because of the relative size of the gravity line.
2. I think as long as you build a ship that has an AFMU and you can power it up without losing engines and/or FSD, (maybe practice deactivating shields quickly?) this is doable. Weighing benefit vs. risk is up to the individual.

I think this will be useful on my return to the bubble from Jaques, through the neutron field, in my Python, so I practiced.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



I've seen it. The first time I was like "Where are the jets?" , then I noticed a certain fuzziness around the star. As long as you zero throttle before or on arrival, you're safe.

Thanks that is useful, indeed. Still unless I find myself in one of the plumes upon jump, I'll not try it while in the black with tonnes of data. Maybe when I reach Jaques I can practice a bit. I need to understand how it affects the position because when entering a NS system, we are 0.23 Ls away and that is very close to the exclusion zone. Hence, if I jump straight into the plume the chance of hitting it is real, or at least that is how I understand it. I may be wrong, I don't know.

 

[Mysturji]

Thanks that is useful, indeed. Still unless I find myself in one of the plumes upon jump, I'll not try it while in the black with tonnes of data. Maybe when I reach Jaques I can practice a bit. I need to understand how it affects the position because when entering a NS system, we are 0.23 Ls away and that is very close to the exclusion zone. Hence, if I jump straight into the plume the chance of hitting it is real, or at least that is how I understand it. I may be wrong, I don't know.

.23 LS is plenty far away to avoid turbulence and damage, as long as you zero throttle, turn, and move away.
DO NOT try to scoop a NS/WD jet while facing the star! Always approach from the side and aim for the end of the jet.

 

[Aura Lorell]

.23 LS is plenty far away to avoid turbulence and damage, as long as you zero throttle, turn, and move away.
DO NOT try to scoop a NS/WD jet while facing the star! Always approach from the side and aim for the end of the jet.

Yes, but if you land inside the plume then you are scooping facing the star. And according to you that is possible.

Edit: And this exactly is the problem. Mixed messages and signals. it's safe, it's easy, DON'T do a, b, c or you're dead. Even when I don't choose to scoop from the NS but the game decides that I am while facing it upon exit from the jump, then that is a problem, don't you think?

 

[gooddoc]

One of the first things I'll do when 2.2 hits is drop down 100LYs to the NS field to have a look at this & give the recharge a go.

I doubt I'll do it in my 'Conda, but I'll try it in my Python.

Some good advise given here....my only question is do you need to stay in the jet stream until the FSD charge is completed to 100% or can you get a 25% 50% FSD completion for a lower but still much improved jump range?

 

[domaq]

One of the first things I'll do when 2.2 hits is drop down 100LYs to the NS field to have a look at this & give the recharge a go.

I doubt I'll do it in my 'Conda, but I'll try it in my Python.

Some good advise given here....my only question is do you need to stay in the jet stream until the FSD charge is completed to 100% or can you get a 25% 50% FSD completion for a lower but still much improved jump range?

Very good question. I always just stay in the jet until I get the message that the FSD is charged. It takes only a few seconds so didn't bother testing a partial charge TBH.

 

[gooddoc]

My reasoning is partially charging the FSD by just passing through it.

 

[domaq]

Bumping this thread for the release of 2.2. I've also removed the link to the beta forum post (which is now locked) so you good people can share your experiences.

 

[Mysturji]

One of the first things I'll do when 2.2 hits is drop down 100LYs to the NS field to have a look at this & give the recharge a go.

I doubt I'll do it in my 'Conda, but I'll try it in my Python.

Some good advise given here....my only question is do you need to stay in the jet stream until the FSD charge is completed to 100% or can you get a 25% 50% FSD completion for a lower but still much improved jump range?

I tried it in my AspX in Beta - No charge at all until I got the message, then 50% boost from white dwarfs, 400% boost from neutron stars.
There were 1 or 2 beta releases after that, though, so it may have changed since then.

 

[Cosmographer]

Tried a neutron charge out yesterday, made it with no problems fun little mechanic

Using this mehtod it seems to be pretty safe: http://imgur.com/a/eMsFO (not mine, found it on reddit)