Escaping from Neutron Star/White Dwarf jets - A Technique

Regarding the exploraconda:
Anything that increases the shield strength (not resistances) will help with planetary landings however a 4D shield is plenty for most people. If you do use boosters, use 0E with Heavy Duty mods. Since they dramatically increase mass %, 0E will have the least impact on your jump range.
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When modding PP for exploration, remember that the PP has a coefficient of heat that impacts all heat generated on the ship. So overcharging the PP increases all heat. IMO, you are better off going with a 4A PP and modding it with grade 1 low emmisions power plant. You can do many rolls, and get almost no loss in available power while reducing your coefficient of heat to around 0.32 (from 0.4). See post #4 at this LINK for more info on exploracondas.
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The FSD charging stars act the same so no difference.
 
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My experience ...and I've done a lot of these ....

White dwarfs are best avoided at present.... the penalties are greater and the rewards are too low, compared with neutron stars

Do not let your FSD get down to 80% or less, or it will start to fail. I now repair mine with the AFMU when it reaches 90% after a nasty experience.
 
Thanks for your responses to these questions Mysturji [repped]. I'm in the process of modding my JumpaConda for the Dostant Starts Origins trip in Jan>. Once done (hopefully tonight) I'll have another go at trying some FSD boosting and jumping... Only in the bubble sadly so only WDs to practice on. Although I may install the Beta and do it that way... at least to save a few 12mil rebuys during the learning curve! At least that way I can use a sub-spec ship and see how she handles under stress as I'm not used to flying with such minimal kit fitted... e.g. 1D PD :eek: My biggest worry is actually NPCs with a slow conda and no boost, minimal paper thin shields and obviously no weapons! [cry]

While I think of it. Which is better: a 4D shield Enhanced [circa 4.0T] + Resistance modded 0A Shield Booster [3.5T] or a 4A shield Enhanced [circa 10.0T]? Both in terms of jump range reduction and added protection? Is it worth the extra weight of the 4A shield? Does the SB make a difference to planetary landings? The power draw is another issue - the SB draws a LOT of power! Obviously need to hit that 55ly jump range target...

Also, I have seen suggestions of using a 3A PP on your JumpaConda... Isn't this a little light on juice even when Overcharged? I'm tempted to mod a 4A for a little extra 'margin' but people with more experience may know better...??? Is this of value or not?

Susie
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Thanks for the Heads Up, so WDs are intricially more dangerous than NSs... Worth knowing that. If I can get the hang of WD charging the NSs will be a walk in the park :rolleyes:

Did you have a different strategy for dealing with the two different types of star?

Aw gee, thanks! [heart]
I've heard of a "jackson's lighthouse" (Somebody's lighthouse, anyway) - allegedly a neutron star in the bubble, but never been there.
It's your choice whether you go for minimum mass for more jump range, or beefier shields for extra protection... But I think SCB's would be wasted with tiny shields on a big ship. My ExplorAsp has the smallest, lightest shields I could fit, just for protection when landing. I made sure I could boost though, and chaff just in case.
In the last Beta, I practiced with WDs in a sidewinder. I died several times before I got the hang of it, then I took my Asp to the nearest NS I could find (2 of them, just close enough to each other!) and spent an hour hopping back and forth between them. After practicing on a WD, it was a doddle! I recently returned to the bubble from Jaques in my Python. I neutron-boosted half the way back with only one mishap (Missusji distracted me at the crucial moment) and knocked about a week off my journey.
I use the same strategy for WDs as for NSs, I'm just a LOT more slow and careful.
 
1. Not so. See the link I posted in Domaq's other thread for tips. I practiced in a Sidey at ER8, a white dwarf inside the bubble. There are other white dwarfs in the bubble too, and I found white dwarfs to be more dangerous than neutron stars, because of the relative size of the gravity line.


This is true IME.
There is one NS in the bubble that I know of. Unfortunately it is about 60h Ls from the main star.

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.23 LS is plenty far away to avoid turbulence and damage, as long as you zero throttle, turn, and move away.
DO NOT try to scoop a NS/WD jet while facing the star! Always approach from the side and aim for the end of the jet.

That is the perceived wisdom but yesterday. My AspX charged up facing the funnel as I was stationary.

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my only question is do you need to stay in the jet stream until the FSD charge is completed to 100% or can you get a 25% 50% FSD completion for a lower but still much improved jump range?

Not during my testing, yesterday. Or if it dit it was not reported that I could see.
 
Hi Susie,

Mirroring Mysturji's flow, here are my answers based on the testing:
1. Yes b/c of the exclusion zone. I do think they should have changed the drop out distance like they did for NS.
2. Not necessary but a good safety precaution. Since you can see what type of star you are jumping to as in the top right of the HUD prior to jumping, if you see DC, DA, BH, or NS, you can throttle to zero. Also, if you use a program like EDDI and/or Voice attack, you can automate the zero throttle based on the type of star you are jumping to.
3. Stay in SC if you can and you're completely fine. The point of this thread was to find a way to survive if you do drop out. Heat sinks won't save you at all. It is structural damage that is the killer. That's why I did so many tests with AFMUs trying to counter the canopy damage for as long as possible.
4. If pointing at the star is 12 o'clock, I would enter the stream anywhere between 3 and 9 o'clock. But that is just to avoid the exclusion zone. FSD charging happens relatively fast so I don't stay at min speed. At min speed, if I hit a wrong key, it will immediately drop me from SC. At least faster than min, you'll get warned first.
5. If you're thinking about using boost, you're not in SC and you're already in trouble. Follow the initial post guidance and boost only after the FSD is charged. You can fight the trubulence; just with little effect. Boosting momentarily changes your vector to align with where you're pointing. So if you're pointing at the exit point or next system, it "should" give you enough to leave. Then you pray.
6. No difference.
7. Shields have no impact what-so-ever.
8. Once you're in the plume, the FSD charge rate is static. So, if you're worried about it, just angle toward the plume until you start to hit light turbulence and get the message that the FSD is charging. That way you still have most of your directional control and still charge.
9. Yes. Only out of SC.
10. Ditto what Mysturji said. That's why I don't charge at min speed.
11. AFMU works on canopies any time they are at greater than 0% (even 1%). They will work in or out of SC. If it is at 0% though...
12. No
13. None
14. I prefer Scotch but whichever one lets you "feel the force" better. If you're out of SC in a plume, there is some finesse to "feeling" the turbulence and knowing when you can hit the boost to escape. Plus, inebriation helps ease the pain if you die with 10,000 systems of data on board.
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Awesome! Thanks for the reply Domaq! +1 (when I can - can't at the mo sadly due to the repping limit)

To respone to your post:
1. Yes b/c of the exclusion zone. I do think they should have changed the drop out distance like they did for NS.
Do you know whether FDev intend to change the exclusion zoen distances for white Dwarf stars to make this a little more friendly?

2. Not necessary but a good safety precaution. Since you can see what type of star you are jumping to as in the top right of the HUD prior to jumping, if you see DC, DA, BH, or NS, you can throttle to zero. Also, if you use a program like EDDI and/or Voice attack, you can automate the zero throttle based on the type of star you are jumping to.
Interesting - I have Voice Attack but haven't set it up properly since switching to a headset and mic (I think the audio from the speakers was corupting my voice profile - usually within a week!). I have no idea how ot set things like this up tho... Can you suggest a suitable morons guide for me please?
Also, does the HUD imfo tell you if you are jumping to a BH or NS? I've only ever done White Dwarfs (DA and DC) but I presume it does? If so, are the designations BH and NS on the HUD?


3. Stay in SC if you can and you're completely fine. The point of this thread was to find a way to survive if you do drop out. Heat sinks won't save you at all. It is structural damage that is the killer. That's why I did so many tests with AFMUs trying to counter the canopy damage for as long as possible.
... Sounds like it is a nearly unsurvivable experience reading the start of this thread...

4. If pointing at the star is 12 o'clock, I would enter the stream anywhere between 3 and 9 o'clock. But that is just to avoid the exclusion zone. FSD charging happens relatively fast so I don't stay at min speed. At min speed, if I hit a wrong key, it will immediately drop me from SC. At least faster than min, you'll get warned first.
oh ... Good Point! Noted!

5. If you're thinking about using boost, you're not in SC and you're already in trouble. Follow the initial post guidance and boost only after the FSD is charged. You can fight the tubulence; just with little effect. Boosting momentarily changes your vector to align with where you're pointing. So if you're pointing at the exit point or next system, it "should" give you enough to leave. Then you pray.
Here is to hoping I won't need to put this to the test. Still, a boostable PD seems to be a sensible addition to the ship build... just in case of this happening!

6. No difference.
Good - one less issue to deal with!

7. Shields have no impact what-so-ever.
Good - another issue I don't have to deal with!

8. Once you're in the plume, the FSD charge rate is static. So, if you're worried about it, just angle toward the plume until you start to hit light turbulence and get the message that the FSD is charging. That way you still have most of your directional control and still charge.
Now that is interesting - so the turbulance isn't uniform but the charging state is... Also Noted!

9. Yes. Only out of SC.
Again - one less issue to worry about... at least until you get dropped out of SC ... then :eek:

10. Ditto what Mysturji said. That's why I don't charge at min speed.
Yeah - I've done that many times too ... "the Auto-Responsive Button Press Nerve Pinch". Definitely stay at 1/3 speed or there abouts...

11. AFMU works on canopies any time they are at greater than 0% (even 1%). They will work in or out of SC. If it is at 0% though...
Your dead. Got it.

12. No
See points 6, 7 and most of the others where I don't need to worry about it any longer...

13. None
Pity :p

14. I prefer Scotch but whichever one lets you "feel the force" better. If you're out of SC in a plume, there is some finesse to "feeling" the turbulence and knowing when you can hit the boost to escape. Plus, inebriation helps ease the pain if you die with 10,000 systems of data on board.
Blimey, 10k system data scans... Just the thought of it! I'd need the whole bloody bottle!

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Ah! I'm glad someone came up with the 'Answer' - we can now work out what the actual question should have been... Sadly, its going to be a 10 million year program... The good news is that you get to be part of the programmes logic circuits! Well that is how it was sold to me... Bum deal I know. ;)
 
Aw gee, thanks! [heart]
I've heard of a "jackson's lighthouse" (Somebody's lighthouse, anyway) - allegedly a neutron star in the bubble, but never been there.
It's your choice whether you go for minimum mass for more jump range, or beefier shields for extra protection... But I think SCB's would be wasted with tiny shields on a big ship. My ExplorAsp has the smallest, lightest shields I could fit, just for protection when landing. I made sure I could boost though, and chaff just in case.
In the last Beta, I practiced with WDs in a sidewinder. I died several times before I got the hang of it, then I took my Asp to the nearest NS I could find (2 of them, just close enough to each other!) and spent an hour hopping back and forth between them. After practicing on a WD, it was a doddle! I recently returned to the bubble from Jaques in my Python. I neutron-boosted half the way back with only one mishap (Missusji distracted me at the crucial moment) and knocked about a week off my journey.
I use the same strategy for WDs as for NSs, I'm just a LOT more slow and careful.

Mwah! Most Welcome friend! [heart] Share the love!
I've heard of Jackson's Lighthouse - on checking it out its about 30ly from Deciet (which just happens to be where I am at the moment seeing Felicity for a little extra jump juice 52.5% >> 53.4%)... I'll go take a look-see this evening! A little alarming reading about the surface temperature of this NS... 311,807,040 K

IMG! That is one hot ball of Neutrons! Note to self - take HSs... lots of them!

I take it that there are no others within stricking distance to practice with? Guess I'll have to practice on a pair of WDs - suggestions?

I have come to the same opinion on the SBs, useful while I'm doing the modding in the bubble (I've had three near death experiences already from NPCs while visiting the RNGineers... and that is with a 4D Shield and G5 Resistance modded SB!) I think I'll do the remaining trips with a few more SBs / better shield and then do a final re-fit once I'm ready...

Loved the 'Missusji' Reference ... :p
 
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I'm in range of Jackson's Lighthouse as it happens (Daini) and have yet to even look at FSD boosting. Haven't even seen a new neutron or white dwarf so maybe (I'd better read this thread first) and maybe see you there!?
 
Mwah! Most Welcome friend! [heart] Share the love!
I've heard of Jackson's Lighthouse - on checking it out its about 30ly from Deciet (which just happens to be where I am at the moment seeing Felicity for a little extra jump juice 52.5% >> 53.4%)... I'll go take a look-see this evening! A little alarming reading about the surface temperature of this NS... 311,807,040 K

IMG! That is one hot ball of Neutrons! Note to self - take HSs... lots of them!

I take it that there are no others within stricking distance to practice with? Guess I'll have to practice on a pair of WDs - suggestions?

I have come to the same opinion on the SBs, useful while I'm doing the modding in the bubble (I've had three near death experiences already from NPCs while visiting the RNGineers... and that is with a 4D Shield and G5 Resistance modded SB!) I think I'll do the remaining trips with a few more SBs / better shield and then do a final re-fit once I'm ready...

Loved the 'Missusji' Reference ... :p

ER8 is the only WD I can remember the name of in the bubble.
Some more tips & observations here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/296357-Neutron-star-white-dwarf-boost-tips
Including the pair of NS's I practiced on. :)
 
BOTTOM LINE: You CAN escape from White Dwarf/Newton Star jets

I can't. I cut throttle, pips to engines, charge FSD for SC, then just get tossed around and can't even turn to face the escape vector. Log and repeat. My situation kind of encapsulates the entire Elite Dangerous exploration experience. Why they can't just kill me.
 
I've seen a lot of people say small ships cannot escape.

I can testify it isn't true. I got interdicted in my Imperial Courier in the jet cone of Beta Sculptoris B. FSD failure was instant; I did not have time to process what direction the escape vector was in.

Canopy and sensors both went to 0%. As I was not in my exploration build, I had no AFMU. As the nearest station was too far, I jumped to another system with a station near the entry point, supercruised to the station, did a reboot/repair to fix the sensors so I could request docking, and entered the docking bay with 58 seconds on the clock.

Obviously, if I had not been in the bubble, it would have ended badly. But given the additional complications stemming from the interdiction I think I'd have had a decent chance of saving my canopy if I'd actually been out exploring.

As the OP says, rule #1 is DO NOT PANIC. Yes, it's a harrowing experience, but if you can stave off panic you have a chance to survive!
 
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Just got my orca stuck in orbit of a white dwarf.

"Aim for escape vector" is all well and good, but when the ship is pitching and rolling and no amount of control input makes the slightest bit of difference, WDs may as well just be insta-death.
 
White dwarfs are really insidious. The jets are small compared to the exclusion zone, so it's much easier to get caught in one. In addition, the boost you get is small, and the jets seem to be more turbulent than neutron stars.

Lots of people avoid boosting in them because the risk is high and the reward low - I'm one of them.
 
Is the exclusion zone in white dwarfs constant? It is in neutron stars, so I thought it is the same in WD, I checked in one, and it was 0.51 ls, so tried another one and died because it was around 2ls (that was in beta, so no harm done :) )
 
I suspect it's different. With NS, they're all roughly the same mass (there's a narrow range of stars that produce neutron stars), so the exclusion zone is similar in all of them. For WD, though, their masses vary wildly, so I wouldn't be surprised if their exclusion zones do, too.
 
I suspect it's different. With NS, they're all roughly the same mass (there's a narrow range of stars that produce neutron stars), so the exclusion zone is similar in all of them. For WD, though, their masses vary wildly, so I wouldn't be surprised if their exclusion zones do, too.

Thx. So probably even with better boost in 3.0 the risk outweights the benefits, Two out of 3 major crashes I had in exploration were because of white dwarfs, I will stay clear of them :)
 
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