Having arrived at Jaque's last night, and waiting on a friend to get a ship transported, I played around in the fields directly below the station for a bit this morning. I decided I would test out the route plotter, (ALOT better BTW) and just hit NS until my fuel got low, check out the new graphics for them, with no intent on boosting or even touching the plumes, then top off my tank and come back. I made it to the 6th neutron star. I dropped in, with throttle at zero...right into the plume...looking down the barrel. I had MAYBE a full second before it dropped me out of SC..and I was toast. Last NS I'll go to...ya'll have fun with 'em
Escaping from Neutron Star/White Dwarf jets - A Technique
- Thread starter domaq
- Start date
Hmmm, interesting experience from Chiggy.
Ugh, now I'm conflicted. I'm 15kly out now and now moving toward SagA, then to Jaques before returning home. I have approx 650 scanned NS's now but want another few hundred before I return. I won't give up on the mission, but if I end up being nuked, I'll likely be done with Elite. I've invested a good amount of time on this and I won't be redoing all that work because of a new impossible to avoid game mechanic. Although I am boost capable as I didn't go for an uber light weight build, so hopefully it works out.
I have another game that sucks a lot of my time, and it's been neglected because I've become infatuated with Elite. That infatuation will end if there's a mechanic that ensures destruction just because you come at a star system from a certain direction.
Can people work on making a video showing entering one of these systems and being placed in the plume and how/if they can avoid destruction. I'm not really wanting to throw away the past 80 hours of Elite.
Ugh, now I'm conflicted. I'm 15kly out now and now moving toward SagA, then to Jaques before returning home. I have approx 650 scanned NS's now but want another few hundred before I return. I won't give up on the mission, but if I end up being nuked, I'll likely be done with Elite. I've invested a good amount of time on this and I won't be redoing all that work because of a new impossible to avoid game mechanic. Although I am boost capable as I didn't go for an uber light weight build, so hopefully it works out.
I have another game that sucks a lot of my time, and it's been neglected because I've become infatuated with Elite. That infatuation will end if there's a mechanic that ensures destruction just because you come at a star system from a certain direction.
Can people work on making a video showing entering one of these systems and being placed in the plume and how/if they can avoid destruction. I'm not really wanting to throw away the past 80 hours of Elite.
I spent last night mapping a sector of black holes and Neutron stars and can confirm you can and will eventually jump into a system looking down the barrel of a Jet plume. The rules of safe exploration haven't changed. Throttle to zero immediately after you jump but before you load the next instance and you will be fine.
As long as you are in supercruise they pose no danger. Venturing too close and returning to normal space while inside a plume will wreck you.
It happened so fast..I got this one screenshot....lol Canopy popped right after I got pulled out of SC..I'm headed back to the same system in a sidey...gonna see what happens.
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No you won't...that's what I'm trying to say...I ALWAYS go to zero throttle...was at zero when I jumped in...was immediately in the plume..and it pulled me out of SC..and bam
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No you won't...that's what I'm trying to say...I ALWAYS go to zero throttle...was at zero when I jumped in...was immediately in the plume..and it pulled me out of SC..and bam
I'll take your word for it. Perhaps I've been lucky so far.
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I'm in a wing with Chiggy and gonna head over and watch the fun
Just retraced my previous route in the sidey...landed in the plume of several NS on my way to. and including the killer itself...had plenty of time to ease out of the plume in SC with no issues. I got the "warning: frame shift drive" message...but that was it..stayed in SC every time...never pulled me out. Gonna try it a few more times, but my confidence in jumping to a NS is very diminished ATM.
Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to retrace your steps and test this further for us all
edit: do you happen to know what % your FSD was at when you got wrecked in the Asp?
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Well, it's at least a little comforting knowing that it's not a guaranteed issue being dropped into the plume. That getting out of the plume is probably. Although that may lead to a false sense of security.
Would still love to see some video of a half dozen jumps into the plume just to see how people are being successful. It's sounding like it won't be a horrible issue but it would be good to be prepared for the first time. I'm Skerd.
Would still love to see some video of a half dozen jumps into the plume just to see how people are being successful. It's sounding like it won't be a horrible issue but it would be good to be prepared for the first time.
I'm Skerd.
Thank you so much for reporting this Chiggy, much appreciated. I carry three weeks of data on my way to Colonia and I'm still 19 Kylies out (and I scan obsessively). I've been to a few NS/WD but stayed well away from the plumes. Landing inside the plumes upon entry is bad and until it's fixed, NS/WD systems are out of the plotting routes. Really grateful for that "Apply filter to route" option, so very useful.
Please folks!
Do be careful when jumping to a Black Hole system with one or more Neutron Stars in it. If one of the NS is orbiting the BH at a very close distance you could have the mischance of exiting hyper right into a jet stream. For some reason I was 6ls away from the BH and, well, 0.0000001ls from said jet. With ten months of data.
I just had this and apart from a heart attack my joghurt flew across the room and landed on a book in a shelf.
What do we learn? "Flying through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy!"
Do be careful when jumping to a Black Hole system with one or more Neutron Stars in it. If one of the NS is orbiting the BH at a very close distance you could have the mischance of exiting hyper right into a jet stream. For some reason I was 6ls away from the BH and, well, 0.0000001ls from said jet. With ten months of data.
I just had this and apart from a heart attack my joghurt flew across the room and landed on a book in a shelf.
What do we learn? "Flying through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy!"
Please folks!
Do be careful when jumping to a Black Hole system with one or more Neutron Stars in it. If one of the NS is orbiting the BH at a very close distance you could have the mischance of exiting hyper right into a jet stream. For some reason I was 6ls away from the BH and, well, 0.0000001ls from said jet. With ten months of data.
I just had this and apart from a heart attack my joghurt flew across the room and landed on a book in a shelf.
What do we learn? "Flying through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy!"
Please tell me you didn't lose 10 months of data?
Luckily (and it was exactly that!) I didn't. But I just changed my route plotting filters. No more such surprises please...
I think I will propose it as a navigational hazard to the GMP.
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Firstly, A Big Thank You to those that have been posting there experiences with WDs and NSs... I'd like to try to sum up what I've learned from this thread together with the very limited experience I have had with charging from WDs (never been near a NS yet)... The few occasions I have come across WDs in the bubble its generally been a little 'hairy' so some learning experience needed here I think...
1. WDs are more dangerous than NSs because of their relative exclusion zones (is this true?). If they are more dangerous, shouldn't WDs get the same bonus (or more!) than NSs? This sounds very much like an FDev joke [to me] so I suspect they are more dangerous... As is, a 50% bonus just isn't worth the hassle and lost time FSD boosting to make it worth the effort/risk/damage/rebuy screen. Its quicker to just ignore and plot your route with regular jumps.
2. Always throttle to zero when entering the system (goes for any jump really, not just NSs/WDs as you don't know what you are getting into unless you know the system well).
3. Stay in SC - dropping from SC may be very bad... If you do drop, does popping (irreplacable - at least outside of the bubble) Heat Sinks like champagne corks help? Is the primary damage due to heat or structural stress?
4. Always approach the jet stream pointing away from the star and enter the tail at minimum speed (30m/s). Stay at min speed while FSD charging and dont fight the turbulance...?
5. Once FSD charging has occured, angle out of the plume (90 degrees? 45 degrees away from the stars jet stream?) and throttle up to full power. If you have Boost then use it. Does Boost provide a significant margin of safety or a reduction in the amount of damage to your ship systems? In other words, is having a sufficiently large PD to enable Boosting worth the weight and lost FSD range? If your PD doesn't enable boosting, what is the best protocol for exiting the jet stream - just pray you have enough 'speed'? What is the best (and minimum) ship speed for dealing with this situation? Is the ship's top speed irrelevant anyway as you are in SC? [assuming that all ships travel at the same speed in SC?]
6. Regarding WDs, is there a difference between DA and DC White Dwarfs? Either in terms of charging rate or potential risk/damage caused? I don't know the difference... Nor whether its significant.
7. Does the strength of your shields offer any protection from FSD strain / damage to systems or is your shield irrelevant to FSD charging in the jet stream?
8. If you approach the jet stream from the tail end (pointing towards the star at min speed), does this reduce or limit the damage to your ship assuming that your FSD will still charge the same way at the same rate? Once charged, you just steer out of the jet stream?
9. What causes the canopy to pop? Does the canopy only pop if you are dropped out to SC?
10. What causes you to drop out of SC (other than hitting the stars exclusion zone)?
11. If the canopy is damaged, I thought you could only repair it (with the AMFU) while landed and with systems powered down (thrusters etc)? I did read somewhere about a process that you had to be in your SRV or something so that the canopy is effectively 'powered down' for repair - can't remember it now...
12. Does your jump range affect the charging time / rate? i.e. does a 30ly jump range ship get its boosted FSD range quicker than a 50ly range ship? In other words, is it more dangerous because you have to stay in the jet stream longer?
13. Does the bulkhead type or moddification make any difference? [aka Heavy Duty mod which doesn't add weight to the standard bulkheads]
14. Which helps you deal with the situation of entering the stars jet stream more effectively? A good stiff G&T or a long slow Joint? How many jumps ahead of reaching the NS or WD should these items be activated?
15. Errr. I can't think of a 15 just yet. I'll have to come back and edit this one...
Thanks for your thoughts!
Susie
~~~~
1. WDs are more dangerous than NSs because of their relative exclusion zones (is this true?). If they are more dangerous, shouldn't WDs get the same bonus (or more!) than NSs? This sounds very much like an FDev joke [to me] so I suspect they are more dangerous... As is, a 50% bonus just isn't worth the hassle and lost time FSD boosting to make it worth the effort/risk/damage/rebuy screen. Its quicker to just ignore and plot your route with regular jumps.
2. Always throttle to zero when entering the system (goes for any jump really, not just NSs/WDs as you don't know what you are getting into unless you know the system well).
3. Stay in SC - dropping from SC may be very bad... If you do drop, does popping (irreplacable - at least outside of the bubble) Heat Sinks like champagne corks help? Is the primary damage due to heat or structural stress?
4. Always approach the jet stream pointing away from the star and enter the tail at minimum speed (30m/s). Stay at min speed while FSD charging and dont fight the turbulance...?
5. Once FSD charging has occured, angle out of the plume (90 degrees? 45 degrees away from the stars jet stream?) and throttle up to full power. If you have Boost then use it. Does Boost provide a significant margin of safety or a reduction in the amount of damage to your ship systems? In other words, is having a sufficiently large PD to enable Boosting worth the weight and lost FSD range? If your PD doesn't enable boosting, what is the best protocol for exiting the jet stream - just pray you have enough 'speed'? What is the best (and minimum) ship speed for dealing with this situation? Is the ship's top speed irrelevant anyway as you are in SC? [assuming that all ships travel at the same speed in SC?]
6. Regarding WDs, is there a difference between DA and DC White Dwarfs? Either in terms of charging rate or potential risk/damage caused? I don't know the difference... Nor whether its significant.
7. Does the strength of your shields offer any protection from FSD strain / damage to systems or is your shield irrelevant to FSD charging in the jet stream?
8. If you approach the jet stream from the tail end (pointing towards the star at min speed), does this reduce or limit the damage to your ship assuming that your FSD will still charge the same way at the same rate? Once charged, you just steer out of the jet stream?
9. What causes the canopy to pop? Does the canopy only pop if you are dropped out to SC?
10. What causes you to drop out of SC (other than hitting the stars exclusion zone)?
11. If the canopy is damaged, I thought you could only repair it (with the AMFU) while landed and with systems powered down (thrusters etc)? I did read somewhere about a process that you had to be in your SRV or something so that the canopy is effectively 'powered down' for repair - can't remember it now...
12. Does your jump range affect the charging time / rate? i.e. does a 30ly jump range ship get its boosted FSD range quicker than a 50ly range ship? In other words, is it more dangerous because you have to stay in the jet stream longer?
13. Does the bulkhead type or moddification make any difference? [aka Heavy Duty mod which doesn't add weight to the standard bulkheads]
14. Which helps you deal with the situation of entering the stars jet stream more effectively? A good stiff G&T or a long slow Joint? How many jumps ahead of reaching the NS or WD should these items be activated?
15. Errr. I can't think of a 15 just yet. I'll have to come back and edit this one...
Thanks for your thoughts!
Susie
~~~~
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1. Yes, it's true.
2. Yes
3. Yes, stay in SC. No, heatsinks don't help - It's the structural strain of the intense magnetic field and the physical buffeting from the jet that kills you.
4. Enter the jet at an upward angle, away from the star. Aim for near the end of the jet. A few Mm/sec until you're in the jet, then zero throttle until charged, then get out of there.
5. At this point, you have no directional control, but you always head out in more or less the same direction that you entered - which is why you enter at an angle pointing AWAY from the star. Boost has no effect in SC. All ships have the same acceleration & top speed in SC
6. I don't know, but I suspect they're all about the same, because making them different would be more work for the Devs.
7. I don't know, but shields make no difference when scooping from a normal star, so probably no difference at WD/NS's either.
8. You can't steer in the jet. That's why you enter it pointing away from the star.
9. Yes (as far as I know). In SC, your FSD is the only thing that takes damage (1% each time you get the "FSD tolerances exceeded" message - so get in, charge, and get out)
10. Disconnects, and accidentally hitting "J".
11. As long as you canopy isn't destroyed (you're on life support) you can repair it with a AFMU. AFMU's are power-hungry, so you may need to turn something else off to use it.
12. No
13. It might give you some more time if you drop out of SC
14. I find my mind wanders after a joint. You want to stay focused.
15. I find my mind wanders after a joint. You want to stay focused.
2. Yes
3. Yes, stay in SC. No, heatsinks don't help - It's the structural strain of the intense magnetic field and the physical buffeting from the jet that kills you.
4. Enter the jet at an upward angle, away from the star. Aim for near the end of the jet. A few Mm/sec until you're in the jet, then zero throttle until charged, then get out of there.
5. At this point, you have no directional control, but you always head out in more or less the same direction that you entered - which is why you enter at an angle pointing AWAY from the star. Boost has no effect in SC. All ships have the same acceleration & top speed in SC
6. I don't know, but I suspect they're all about the same, because making them different would be more work for the Devs.
7. I don't know, but shields make no difference when scooping from a normal star, so probably no difference at WD/NS's either.
8. You can't steer in the jet. That's why you enter it pointing away from the star.
9. Yes (as far as I know). In SC, your FSD is the only thing that takes damage (1% each time you get the "FSD tolerances exceeded" message - so get in, charge, and get out)
10. Disconnects, and accidentally hitting "J".
11. As long as you canopy isn't destroyed (you're on life support) you can repair it with a AFMU. AFMU's are power-hungry, so you may need to turn something else off to use it.
12. No
13. It might give you some more time if you drop out of SC
14. I find my mind wanders after a joint. You want to stay focused.
15. I find my mind wanders after a joint. You want to stay focused.
Just to add a bit of current experience
I have lots of recent (post previous beta) experience with NS FSD boosting in my Asp. I never had a problem.
A few days ago I tried my first WD (I hadn't seen this thread unfortunately!). In just a couple of seconds it crashed me out of SC and then it was just a long, painful death! I set my AFM working and tried everything but the ship just pitched around and gradually everything disintegrated. It took quite a while, but the end was never in doubt. Luckily I was only 10kLy into my trip, so no major loss. I shall be giving WDs a miss from now on.
Fly Safely Commanders
I have lots of recent (post previous beta) experience with NS FSD boosting in my Asp. I never had a problem.
A few days ago I tried my first WD (I hadn't seen this thread unfortunately!). In just a couple of seconds it crashed me out of SC and then it was just a long, painful death! I set my AFM working and tried everything but the ship just pitched around and gradually everything disintegrated. It took quite a while, but the end was never in doubt. Luckily I was only 10kLy into my trip, so no major loss. I shall be giving WDs a miss from now on.
Fly Safely Commanders
1. Yes, it's true.
2. Yes
3. Yes, stay in SC. No, heatsinks don't help - It's the structural strain of the intense magnetic field and the physical buffeting from the jet that kills you.
4. Enter the jet at an upward angle, away from the star. Aim for near the end of the jet. A few Mm/sec until you're in the jet, then zero throttle until charged, then get out of there.
5. At this point, you have no directional control, but you always head out in more or less the same direction that you entered - which is why you enter at an angle pointing AWAY from the star. Boost has no effect in SC. All ships have the same acceleration & top speed in SC
6. I don't know, but I suspect they're all about the same, because making them different would be more work for the Devs.
7. I don't know, but shields make no difference when scooping from a normal star, so probably no difference at WD/NS's either.
8. You can't steer in the jet. That's why you enter it pointing away from the star.
9. Yes (as far as I know). In SC, your FSD is the only thing that takes damage (1% each time you get the "FSD tolerances exceeded" message - so get in, charge, and get out)
10. Disconnects, and accidentally hitting "J".
11. As long as you canopy isn't destroyed (you're on life support) you can repair it with a AFMU. AFMU's are power-hungry, so you may need to turn something else off to use it.
12. No
13. It might give you some more time if you drop out of SC
14. I find my mind wanders after a joint. You want to stay focused.
15. I find my mind wanders after a joint. You want to stay focused.
Thanks for your responses to these questions Mysturji [repped]. I'm in the process of modding my JumpaConda for the Dostant Starts Origins trip in Jan>. Once done (hopefully tonight) I'll have another go at trying some FSD boosting and jumping... Only in the bubble sadly so only WDs to practice on. Although I may install the Beta and do it that way... at least to save a few 12mil rebuys during the learning curve! At least that way I can use a sub-spec ship and see how she handles under stress as I'm not used to flying with such minimal kit fitted... e.g. 1D PD
My biggest worry is actually NPCs with a slow conda and no boost, minimal paper thin shields and obviously no weapons! [cry] While I think of it. Which is better: a 4D shield Enhanced [circa 4.0T] + Resistance modded 0A Shield Booster [3.5T] or a 4A shield Enhanced [circa 10.0T]? Both in terms of jump range reduction and added protection? Is it worth the extra weight of the 4A shield? Does the SB make a difference to planetary landings? The power draw is another issue - the SB draws a LOT of power! Obviously need to hit that 55ly jump range target...
Also, I have seen suggestions of using a 3A PP on your JumpaConda... Isn't this a little light on juice even when Overcharged? I'm tempted to mod a 4A for a little extra 'margin' but people with more experience may know better...??? Is this of value or not?
Susie
~~~~
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Just to add a bit of current experience
I have lots of recent (post previous beta) experience with NS FSD boosting in my Asp. I never had a problem.
A few days ago I tried my first WD (I hadn't seen this thread unfortunately!). In just a couple of seconds it crashed me out of SC and then it was just a long, painful death! I set my AFM working and tried everything but the ship just pitched around and gradually everything disintegrated. It took quite a while, but the end was never in doubt. Luckily I was only 10kLy into my trip, so no major loss. I shall be giving WDs a miss from now on.
Fly Safely Commanders
Thanks for the Heads Up, so WDs are intricially more dangerous than NSs... Worth knowing that. If I can get the hang of WD charging the NSs will be a walk in the park
Did you have a different strategy for dealing with the two different types of star?
Hi Susie,
Mirroring Mysturji's flow, here are my answers based on the testing:
1. Yes b/c of the exclusion zone. I do think they should have changed the drop out distance like they did for NS.
2. Not necessary but a good safety precaution. Since you can see what type of star you are jumping to as in the top right of the HUD prior to jumping, if you see DC, DA, BH, or NS, you can throttle to zero. Also, if you use a program like EDDI and/or Voice attack, you can automate the zero throttle based on the type of star you are jumping to.
3. Stay in SC if you can and you're completely fine. The point of this thread was to find a way to survive if you do drop out. Heat sinks won't save you at all. It is structural damage that is the killer. That's why I did so many tests with AFMUs trying to counter the canopy damage for as long as possible.
4. If pointing at the star is 12 o'clock, I would enter the stream anywhere between 3 and 9 o'clock. But that is just to avoid the exclusion zone. FSD charging happens relatively fast so I don't stay at min speed. At min speed, if I hit a wrong key, it will immediately drop me from SC. At least faster than min, you'll get warned first.
5. If you're thinking about using boost, you're not in SC and you're already in trouble. Follow the initial post guidance and boost only after the FSD is charged. You can fight the trubulence; just with little effect. Boosting momentarily changes your vector to align with where you're pointing. So if you're pointing at the exit point or next system, it "should" give you enough to leave. Then you pray.
6. No difference.
7. Shields have no impact what-so-ever.
8. Once you're in the plume, the FSD charge rate is static. So, if you're worried about it, just angle toward the plume until you start to hit light turbulence and get the message that the FSD is charging. That way you still have most of your directional control and still charge.
9. Yes. Only out of SC.
10. Ditto what Mysturji said. That's why I don't charge at min speed.
11. AFMU works on canopies any time they are at greater than 0% (even 1%). They will work in or out of SC. If it is at 0% though...
12. No
13. None
14. I prefer Scotch but whichever one lets you "feel the force" better. If you're out of SC in a plume, there is some finesse to "feeling" the turbulence and knowing when you can hit the boost to escape. Plus, inebriation helps ease the pain if you die with 10,000 systems of data on board.
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Mirroring Mysturji's flow, here are my answers based on the testing:
1. Yes b/c of the exclusion zone. I do think they should have changed the drop out distance like they did for NS.
2. Not necessary but a good safety precaution. Since you can see what type of star you are jumping to as in the top right of the HUD prior to jumping, if you see DC, DA, BH, or NS, you can throttle to zero. Also, if you use a program like EDDI and/or Voice attack, you can automate the zero throttle based on the type of star you are jumping to.
3. Stay in SC if you can and you're completely fine. The point of this thread was to find a way to survive if you do drop out. Heat sinks won't save you at all. It is structural damage that is the killer. That's why I did so many tests with AFMUs trying to counter the canopy damage for as long as possible.
4. If pointing at the star is 12 o'clock, I would enter the stream anywhere between 3 and 9 o'clock. But that is just to avoid the exclusion zone. FSD charging happens relatively fast so I don't stay at min speed. At min speed, if I hit a wrong key, it will immediately drop me from SC. At least faster than min, you'll get warned first.
5. If you're thinking about using boost, you're not in SC and you're already in trouble. Follow the initial post guidance and boost only after the FSD is charged. You can fight the trubulence; just with little effect. Boosting momentarily changes your vector to align with where you're pointing. So if you're pointing at the exit point or next system, it "should" give you enough to leave. Then you pray.
6. No difference.
7. Shields have no impact what-so-ever.
8. Once you're in the plume, the FSD charge rate is static. So, if you're worried about it, just angle toward the plume until you start to hit light turbulence and get the message that the FSD is charging. That way you still have most of your directional control and still charge.
9. Yes. Only out of SC.
10. Ditto what Mysturji said. That's why I don't charge at min speed.
11. AFMU works on canopies any time they are at greater than 0% (even 1%). They will work in or out of SC. If it is at 0% though...
12. No
13. None
14. I prefer Scotch but whichever one lets you "feel the force" better. If you're out of SC in a plume, there is some finesse to "feeling" the turbulence and knowing when you can hit the boost to escape. Plus, inebriation helps ease the pain if you die with 10,000 systems of data on board.
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