General / Off-Topic EU Referendum (UK only) - to Brexit or not to Brexit

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain

    Votes: 155 50.2%
  • Leave

    Votes: 154 49.8%

  • Total voters
    309
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I don't particularly want anything.

But there are claims and a counter claims. The only consistencies are that claims are always extreme and always denied.

In the original referendum, (which was supposed to settle the issue once and for all), we were given the straight facts.
it's a real shame. As you say both sides are guilty.

On the other hand, we now have much more access to more information, the trick is sitting the useful from the biased.

I've looked for as first hand as possible info, avoided newspapers, avoided political info.

Where I have used treasury stuff, I've tried to use the regular civil service reports rather than special commissioned ones.

The EU itself puts out a lot of info, you just have to be prepared to dig, then read and digest it yourself

Full facts has been a good guide.

Overall, though remain has mislead, it has (IMHO) mislead less and by degree, whereas Leave have mislead more often and often by extreme contortion.

For example Remains various economic doom pronouncements, they may have over egged it but almost all credible forecasters predict a negative on the economy. The expert view is that it is far more likely that our economy will suffer than prosper.

Leave's scare mongering over Turkey though is another level. Every expert and even a cursory glance at what needs to happen before turkey can join the EU, shows it is vanishingly unlikely to happen in the next few decades.

Let's not even get onto the £350million claim.
 

Yaffle

Volunteer Moderator
My postal voting papers arrived yesterday. I've done my tick, and now will try to ignore the whole darn shooting match.
 
The European Cup of Football in France in June / July (with the teams of England, North Ireland, Wales), can encourage the British to "forget" to vote on June 23 ? If not, can influence their votes ?
 
it's a real shame. As you say both sides are guilty.

On the other hand, we now have much more access to more information, the trick is sitting the useful from the biased.

I've looked for as first hand as possible info, avoided newspapers, avoided political info.

Where I have used treasury stuff, I've tried to use the regular civil service reports rather than special commissioned ones.

The EU itself puts out a lot of info, you just have to be prepared to dig, then read and digest it yourself

Full facts has been a good guide.

Overall, though remain has mislead, it has (IMHO) mislead less and by degree, whereas Leave have mislead more often and often by extreme contortion.

For example Remains various economic doom pronouncements, they may have over egged it but almost all credible forecasters predict a negative on the economy. The expert view is that it is far more likely that our economy will suffer than prosper.

Leave's scare mongering over Turkey though is another level. Every expert and even a cursory glance at what needs to happen before turkey can join the EU, shows it is vanishingly unlikely to happen in the next few decades.

Let's not even get onto the £350million claim.

I still think you're missing the point. One look at that page and the first thing that strikes you is it doesn't have the full facts at all. Just a load of links to trawl through.

Most of those voting won't be in the slightest bit interested. Most are more interested in how it affects them.

Immigration, costs, jobs, bureaucracy.

It's frankly, nerd stuff.

Now when are we getting a straight banana?
 
I still think you're missing the point. One look at that page and the first thing that strikes you is it doesn't have the full facts at all. Just a load of links to trawl through.

Most of those voting won't be in the slightest bit interested. Most are more interested in how it affects them.

Immigration, costs, jobs, bureaucracy.

It's frankly, nerd stuff.

Now when are we getting a straight banana?
so your complaint is that people are being spoon fed biased information, but clicking on a few links to get unbiased info is too hard?

It's not like they have to go out in the rain and walk to the library, they don't even need to send a self addressed envelope off.

Just sit on the sofa at home and click a few links.

There are times when I have full sympathy with the alleged views of the EU commission that democracy just gets in their way. If people want democracy they should at least make some effort to engage with the issues, otherwise we don't have democracy we have, I don't know, media-baron-ocracy?
 
so your complaint is that people are being spoon fed biased information, but clicking on a few links to get unbiased info is too hard?

It's not like they have to go out in the rain and walk to the library, they don't even need to send a self addressed envelope off.

Just sit on the sofa at home and click a few links.

There are times when I have full sympathy with the alleged views of the EU commission that democracy just gets in their way. If people want democracy they should at least make some effort to engage with the issues, otherwise we don't have democracy we have, I don't know, media-baron-ocracy?

No.

If I have any complaint it's that a very small minority seem to be treating this issue seriously.

It's a farce.

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And as a comparison, have a look at today's front pages in Scotland: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36410931
 
So the UK press are an embarrassment? Not news.

As for the "borders wide open" headline, why a joke, should read "geography of British coast still the same"

and yet, these same sources are the ones that proved the information for our can't be bothered to look at the issues electorate.

Scotland seems to have done well out of the independence referendum, in that engagement seems higher now than before.
 
More from the national sit-com:

If you take both sides of the campaign at face value, you'd be forgiven for feeling utterly confused. There are hardly any facts they don't dispute. Indeed, they both have, with differing severity, had a public ticking off from other politicians at the cross-party Treasury Select Committee for how they are using the figures.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36419779


And the polls seem to suggest the remain camp has it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36271589
 
I wonder if those who voted in this poll are UK citizens who intend to vote in the referendum. If that is the case then it's a 50/50 split among those who also play Elite.

I still blame the tawdry press in England.
 
Leave, the EU was mis sold to our parents. I don't want to be a part of a superstate.
Regardless of any economic downturn I also feel it may be our last chance to preserve our culture.
A fragile thing that many seem to care nothing for or are affraid to say so. Any that do not agree with our forced multiculturalism are simply branded as racist.

I have travelled to world, been all over. I love going to different places, seeing their own individual cultures. The EU dream of a bland nation where we all use the same money, have the same police, and all have the same laws is simply scary.
It's a very good way to control people, especially when you scare them into being a part of you big club with vieled sanctions if you don't play ball. It's also unelected, how crazy is that!
 
Lords don't govern the UK, elected MPs do. Meps don't govern the EU, unelected commissoners do. :)

No they don't!

The EU Commission is the European equivalent of the British civil service (albeit with a slightly expanded role).

European Commission

The decisions are made by the European Parliament and to a lesser extent by the Council of The European Union, both of which are institutions comprised of elected representatives from each of the member states.

Y'know, this stuff isn't exactly rocket science.
 
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http://civitas.org.uk/content/files/1975ReferendumYES.pdf
Leave, the EU was mis sold to our parents.
I don't think the EU was miss sold to our parents.
Here is a letter to the times from the PM, Edward Heath in 1972
1973Jan01-2-.jpg
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Hardly seems like he's trying to claim it's "just a trading club".

Have a read of the "Yes" leaflet, and the "NO" leaflet
from the 1975 referendum. Again, the Yes campaign are not making it just about trade, in fact what they describe is more or less what we have now.


What's striking is how (apart from the slightly old fashioned typography and style) they could both be leaflets from the current campaign!
 
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No they don't!

The EU Commission is the European equivalent of the British civil service (albeit with a slightly expanded role).

European Commission

The decisions are made by the European Parliament and to a lesser extent by the Council of The European Union, both of which are institutions comprised of elected representatives from each of the member states.

Y'know, this stuff isn't exactly rocket science.

I couldn't be bothered going into all of that, or the first half of his reply to me (which is similarly inaccurate).
 
That's called NATO,not the eu

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Remain, the EU represents the most peaceful period in Europe since mankind learned to keep records.

Wrong. Its called NATO,nothing to do with the eu
 
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