Yes I agree with that. And Erdogan, does not help
General / Off-Topic EU Referendum (UK only) - to Brexit or not to Brexit
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Yes I agree with that. And Erdogan, does not help
Yaffle
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And why any one of the member states can veto it.
And why i'm still leaning to remain, but if there was a second referendum after the EU fastracks (as it might do in a deal) Turkey's application, i would vote leave.
The UK government wants to do that too, remember. You don't need a theocracy to abandon common sense.
I'm on record as saying i'd vote leave if we had a decent labour leader, in the mean time i trust the EU more than Cameron on human rights and social issues, and i trust Corbyn even less on security matters, so for now the UK needs an EU anchor, besides, we do get veto power and a seat on the table.
The interview with Boris Johnson on BBC's Country File is available online.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07dxrc9/countryfile-snowdonia
If you fast forward to 27:30, the interview lasts about 6 mins.
It really is a revelation on the entire Leave movement. This has been their argument and their weakness all the way through.
That the leave movement and UKIP have managed to gain so much support even with these hilarious arguments is bordering on scary.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07dxrc9/countryfile-snowdonia
If you fast forward to 27:30, the interview lasts about 6 mins.
It really is a revelation on the entire Leave movement. This has been their argument and their weakness all the way through.
That the leave movement and UKIP have managed to gain so much support even with these hilarious arguments is bordering on scary.
we are this tiny island, only the 78th largest country/sovereignty in the world, but we have still managed to maintain the 5th largest economy, and the 4th strongest currency.. above the dollar and the euro. true, we will have an uncertain, if not difficult time when we leave, however, the exact same thing can be said if we stay, far better to face that uncertainty as a unified voice in a country, with our sovereignty intact, than to face the certainty, of becoming just another whisper, in a place that doesn't represent our countries best interests, with our sovereignty sat in a jar on a shelf. i'm happy to be considered a European, but i am just not willing to give up our countries right, to make all her own decisions, the good and the bad, by those who we have elected to do so. voting to stay is voting to allow a group of despotic EU bureaucrats (who's organisation has, over the years, deviated greatly from what was sold as a centralised European trade union) to finish the job of totally amalgamating us it into a failing EuroState. what i find most disheartening though, is that the British peoples desire to make an important choice for our future, is considered grounds for threats and belittlement by EU officials, what exactly does that say about the state of play?
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That's why this decision is so difficult, both sides are passionate, both sides make reasonable. arguments, both sides claim patriotism, i for one believe in democracy, if we leave we'll make do (yes, with more sovereignty), but if we choose to stay, we will be. giving those EU officials a renewed democratic mandate, either way we will make do with the choice of the people (that's the democratic part), this vote is not the end of times decision that both sides are making it out to be, what's making it ugly is when Brexiters call remainers unpatriotic and undemocratic traitors, and remainers call Brexiters Xenophobic or Islamophobic for talking about EU immigration and the threat of Turkey.
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The numbers keep rising, but it stays constant at 50/50. Probably like the the country its self.
That's the kind of British nationalism that I detest. Suffered more than enough of it to last a lifetime over the last few years, from people who hold the mistaken and arrogant belief that Britannia has either the right or ability to still rule the waves.
This survey will be prophetic ?
I hear you, but i must say that as a supporter of trident, and interventionalism, i would never call myself a British nationalist, i also would never call people traitors for being Anti trident or pro pacifism, we all care about our country, we just all have differing perspectives even within the same party/movement.
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To be fair Turkey shouldn't even be in the debate, it is inconceivable it could join in it's current state. Before it could join:
- Turkey would have to leave northern Cyprus
- Turkey would have to implement the remaining 32 of 33 chapters of EU law
- All 28 EU members would have to vote YES including Cyprus (anti Turkey) and the UK
- All 28 EU members have to sign individual agreements with Turkey (giving a second UK veto)
None of that is going to happen in the near or medium term, in the far future, who knows, 50 years ago who would have called China as an emerging super power and Russia a hyper capitalist oligarchy?
Brexit brought it into the debate as a scary bogey man precisely because they knew it would appeal to (or scare) the islamophobia vote.
When deciding on the EU you should give Turkey joining the EU as much consideration as zombie plagues and alien invasions, they are all scary things that aren't likely to happen.
The Turks do not need to join the EU. They are already here by the millions under various nationalities
That's why i said Turkey was a red line, i'm voting remain as things stand but if Turkey uses it's NATO position to make a deal with the EU, it might become the red line issue that it's not right now.
Well, I suppose that depends on what any individual considers to be "our country".
Well i'm a Unionist (but not afraid of change by the way, in fact i'd prefer these nations to be the United republics of Great Britain, comprising of Scotland, Wales and England, as demographics will lead to Irish reunification on democratic terms, this URGB of ours would be out of the EU but remain in NATO and the UN security council) but i'm a realist, we can't always get what we want, many Scots wanted independence, they didn't get it (ironically most seem to love the EU) many English and Welsh want to leave the EU they, might not get it, i want a labour government led by Hillary Benn, i probably won't get it, but i love my country and it's Union, i love Wales (where i was born), i love England (where i live) i love Scotland (where i lived for 2 years)......i know you were not reffering to me about the British nationalism, but when i say we all love our country, i mean the British citizens who don't support SNP, Plaid Cymru, and the BNP (the latter being the only genuinely bad movement, the two others being national independence movements (which i respect) but i trust even those three groups supporters would claim to want what is best for the UK while we are part of it, even if they do not love the UK in it's current state.
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