Expansions: BGS Guide Best Current Thinking

Can confirm that a conflict going active before election will put election on hold, pending days still count down during conflict and expansion goes active once conflict recovery is over.

Happened recently and got this happening at the moment, our conflict ended today
Sounds good, would work perfectly into our plans.
 
So in other words we're the only ones who managed to open up, expand in and take over a Power capital? All other PMF in Power capitals were placed there by FD?

Would be nice if someone could verify / debunk that, assuming the necessary information is available.

Edit:

Looks like only one other PMF ever managed to pull that off: the 8th Dragon Squadron Wing expanding into Harma (Archon Delaine) (Source: Inara.cz).

Still a difference to try to get into a 27.53mil System or a 12.76bil one ;)
Pretty sure this is correct, definitely an achievement in both cases.
 

Patau82

Volunteer Moderator
should also add that Investments go active the day the expansions fails
oh and can run at the same time as conflicts which causes war type conflicts to go into ceasefire, this stops you collecting bonds in cz
 

Patau82

Volunteer Moderator
Sounds good, would work perfectly into our plans.
Our war cooldown ended and expansion went active, just need to double check what day expansion went pending when i get home to be 100% it still counted down during the active conflict
 
There is a theory that a target system being in range isn't based on straight distance (a sphere) but rather on a cube +-x ly from the expanding system. (Once the cube is established, then proper distance is used to prioritize the systems)

Getting enough data to prove it is hard as people are rarely prepared to give out the information when then expand.
 
There is a theory that a target system being in range isn't based on straight distance (a sphere) but rather on a cube +-x ly from the expanding system. (Once the cube is established, then proper distance is used to prioritize the systems)

Getting enough data to prove it is hard as people are rarely prepared to give out the information when then expand.
Probably due to fearing to have some unwanted guests trying to abolish one's efforts. Sadly not only the reasonable people are reading these threads.
 

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
Does anyone else miss the kickback mechanism? We used it to get into a couple of really tasty systems way down the priority order. It was before retreat so you could hold on at 1% and wait for the expansion. The downside was the amount of systems cluttering up your expansion centres - we got well into double figures!
 
It might just be Sol and Alioth that are protected... the former saddened me a bit, since flying the Red Flag over Earth was my end game!
You'd have had to take it off the Alliance first! If it hadn't been godblocked, Sol almost certainly would have been green by now :D

Does anyone else miss the kickback mechanism? We used it to get into a couple of really tasty systems way down the priority order. It was before retreat so you could hold on at 1% and wait for the expansion. The downside was the amount of systems cluttering up your expansion centres - we got well into double figures!

Aaaaah, the displacement mechanism.... That was good, actually, though it made things a bit difficult, but good difficult, and did allow for expansions over longer distance (while requiring sick amount of neighborhood management). Wolf 406 at some point I think had 13-14 factions in it!
 
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There is a theory that a target system being in range isn't based on straight distance (a sphere) but rather on a cube +-x ly from the expanding system. (Once the cube is established, then proper distance is used to prioritize the systems)
That theory would nicely explain everything I've seen in Colonia about which expansions require Investment and which ones didn't.

The 28 LY which didn't was very misaligned with the map axes, coming in at 19 LY on the longest one.
The 23 LY which did was very aligned with the map axes, coming in at 21 LY on the longest one.

In the situation in my post #8, system B was 23 LY away on a single axis, whereas system D was only 19 LY away on the longest axis. System C was also more than 20 LY away on an axis.

That would mean that in ideal circumstances you could get a 34.64 LY expansion without Investment being required ... and twice that with it.

Excellent. I have some expansion target predictors to update...
 
It would probably be good to mention it as a thing which can happen, since it's pretty common for people to claim that expansion to systems with 7 factions is absolutely impossible. Though, outside Colonia or other similarly isolated clusters, it's going to be extremely rare.

So far as I can tell - and I'm going here on single-figure instances of it happening and a few more of it not - the requirements are as follows:
- there are no suitable systems with <7 factions in range
- the expanding faction does not have a pending or active conflict (confirmed by FDev in changelog)
- there is an otherwise suitable target faction with 7 factions in range
- at least one of the factions in the target system is
-- not native
-- not pending, active or recovering any form of conflict
-- not the controlling faction of the system (?) [1]

Successfully invading leads to an immediate (no pending period) War with a faction in the target system, with the loser being expelled immediately from the system [2] (in the event of the war fizzling out to a draw, both factions stay). The invasion conflict is always a War, even if the factions would normally conflict by Election.

[1] The most obvious explanation for a particular invasion skipping a closer system, and it would certainly make sense as a requirement ... but "within a certain range of influence" could also explain it, so I can't be certain.
[2] It is not clear whether this counts as a Retreat for the purpose of deprioritising the system.
I'm confused, is invasion a type of expansion? or a state that comes after failed investment? Any details assuming a faction 'invades' a system with 7 factions in it, what their starting influence maybe when they enter & pend? Do they pend upon entrance or enter in War? I've never seen a faction expand into a system after 7 facitons are present in it.
 
I'm confused, is invasion a type of expansion? or a state that comes after failed investment? Any details assuming a faction 'invades' a system with 7 factions in it, what their starting influence maybe when they enter & pend? Do they pend upon entrance or enter in War? I've never seen a faction expand into a system after 7 facitons are present in it.
It's a type of expansion which occurs (rarely!) to stop stagnation in sparsely settled but densely contested regions, and can occur without Investment (and is more likely without Investment). They're rare but not unheard of in the Colonia region ... and extremely rare outside it.

The faction entering gets normal "has expanded" influence levels.

The War (usually) goes active immediately on entrance, no pending time.

Here's a recent example from Chrysus - https://cdb.sotl.org.uk/systems/44/history
On 15 March, the Nomads of Nevermore find this system is their sole expansion target in range not requiring Investment - the catch is, it's already got 7 factions in it.
As they are not currently pending or active in any conflicts, they can invade, so they appear in the system at 8.4% influence [1] and start a war with the nearest other faction not already in a conflict - in this case, Colonia Defence Force
On 18 March, the War has reached its minimum length, and they have a winning margin, so they win the war
... and on 19 March, Colonia Defence Force are gone from the system reducing it back to a standard 7 factions.

[1] In this case, an exact match with their opponent - but that's not guaranteed, and these wars can start with influence levels below the normal 7% minimum, or with a >10% gap between factions.
 

Patau82

Volunteer Moderator
Dont think its been mentioned here yet but investment bonus is used up by your next expansion, even if expansion is not from system that went into investment
 

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
btw we just had an expansion of 34Ly without investment - though there had been an investment 2 expansions previously, then expansion from a system that didn't need the investment. This contradicts the use it or lose it the theory with investment.
 
The 'cube' theory of expansion ranges would allow a 34 LY expansion without investment if the two systems were in exactly the right relative positions (the theoretical limit being 34.64 LY) so that the differences in all three of X, Y and Z coordinates were individually <=20LY - could that apply here?
 
Please explain to me: Expansion in alphabetical order? System A... + 75%, system V... +75% ... however, System War H ... and no expansion? As?
 
Expansions are in order of the in-game system list, not name list.

I've reliably had the same expansions from the same systems regardless of other systems at expansion point - so it goes by whatever system ID is on their generated list from the Galactic Forge, not what they are named or what order they got to expansion point.
 

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
Just had an expansion of 31.56 without an investment.

The previous expansion was 34.27 also without an investment, though my assumption then was it used an unused investment that was followed by an alternative expansion out of a different system.


There are 15 or so closer systems with at least space and no retreats to consider.

Baffled
 
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