Exploits - Good for PvP , PvE & FD

[JohnRoberts]

but long range smuggling was not an exploity mission and was actually pretty fun... it could (should) have been tweaked, not spanked completely.

Indeed the long range smuggling was a lot of fun, required some skill, was not without risk (one scan and it was over!), and did not earn 100MCr+/per hour. There was real risk reward. I really hope that some high risk/high reward skill based long range smuggling comes back into the game.

 

[jasonbirder]

You are playing the game exactly as the "don't spoil my game" crowd would demand you do.

I think there is a general acceptance that earning upwards of 100MCr/hr for a risk-free activity is probably NOT intended Game design...regardless of not needing to "board hop"

 

[JohnRoberts]

I think there is a general acceptance that earning upwards of 100MCr/hr for a risk-free activity is probably NOT intended Game design...regardless of not needing to "board hop"

Then fix the game, not the players.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Then fix the game, not the players.

isnt that what folk are trying to [get FD to] do?

i do not blame players for doing what ever exploit they like - so long as they do not use one to give other players a hard time - but i absolutely will ask FD to fix things which i think are lame, and will expect them to continue to strive to "do better". FD are within their rights to ignore anything i write or not.

indeed IME it is rarely ever the players doign the exploits who get dumped on and insulted..... but more often the ones who ask for the game that was sold in KSer and dev diaries who get the hard time of it.

 

[StiTch]

*shrug* if one considers it "good" when noobs are in an anaconda in days, find it the most boring thing since quinoa, get shot to pieces by a dog piloting an SLF and complain to FD that the game is too hard.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Whatever...we now exist in a game where when or if we do find an exploit, the advice is not to tell anyone about it because some snowflakes will demand its nerfed into oblivion because it messes with how they think the game should be played. Personally, I dont think thats a healthy attitude fer a community to have, but thats what the snowflakes have done...thats the environment they helped create.

You think calling people that disagree with you "snowflakes" creates a healthy attitude for the community?

Plus, those who disagree have nothing to demand. The nerfing into oblivion is done by Frontier. They don't listen to demands from player. You can't blame players for agreeing with Frontier when they nerf an unintended consequence, or exploit. Do you really actually think that Frontier doesn't want to nerf these exploits but are swayed by the players demands?

 

[JohnRoberts]

isnt that what folk are trying to [get FD to] do?

Let me just propose this, then: Technology Brokers are the beginning of the end for dominance of the Credit Based Economy.

 

[ilo]

Meanwhile, I look at my balance, 180M, after more than 2k hours..

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

No, exploits are not good, because they distort perception about the game and how it was designed to be played.

No, it's marketing slogan is not about do whatever you want, it's not how games work.

Although to be fair all these cycles become so predictable and boring that I am not gonna even bother to take part in them.

Do you worst people. Excuse usage of exploits because you can't find ways to click with game or don't even try to. It has worked with other ones, why stop here?

 

[Daiyus73]

I’m very much in the “play how you want” camp. I know that if I grind out billions of credits my enjoyment of the game will be diminished. I’m relatively new; I started playing last November and have racked up around 120 hours so far. In that time I’ve owned about 15 different ships, have flown to Colonia, done some mining, trading, exploration and so on. I have three engineers unlocked and only one has been ranked up to Level 3. I own around 65MCr in assets.

I’ve just bought my first Python and it was a little bit of a stretch as I had enough for two rebuys afterwards. After doing some missions to fit some decent guns I decided to take it into a HazRES and was doing quite well (for the first time ever trying to bounty hunt). I had a rebuy in bounties and was about to head back to base when I thought I’d have one last skirmish. Rookie mistake. I accidentally attacked a wing and got demolished.

Heart pounding gameplay trying to escape and a hard lesson learned. I’ve spent the last few evening runnings some very safe missions to build my funds back up. There were consequences to my actions that led to emotions that would’ve been missed if I had taken advantage of the system and had the money for umpteen rebuys.

I understand where I get my fun and play that way; some may call me a n00b for averaging around 500,000Cr an hour but I really don’t care. If they want to have a small fortune with no consequences to their mistakes then more power to them, but I for one will be engaging and progressing steadily doing whatever I feel like. Right now I’m trying to earn an Imperial Clipper to be heavily engineered for an exploration run to Beagle Point. It’s a lovely long-term goal which has introduced many elements of the game I had yet to discover; superpower ranks, various mission types, engineering, etc. If I achieve it too soon I’ll feel like I robbed myself of the experience.

 

[Ethaidan]

Then fix the game, not the players.

I genuinely think they are trying, but given the sequence of skimmer exploits followed by the manner in which they have been 'fixed' over the past 6? months, I suspect there are some difficulties with the specfic combination of the coding used for mission generation, instance generation, and persistance that keeps throwing up annoying roadblocks.

Who really believes that being given the same mission for the same target from the same group 20 times, makes any sense at all? Before, you used to be able to complete all the skimmer missions in one go - that was proper exploit stacking! Before that, you could complete all the skimmer you had for different bases, on different planets, in different systems, without ever leaving the surface of one planet - if you knew how.

The fixes for these have left the current exploit alive, and I look forward to seeing how/if they can fix this one. I have my doubts - it would require the mission gen system not reproducing missions, or persistence tracking not allowing the same mission to be accepted... but given the RNG nature of mission generation, this may be difficult, and may have a knock-on effect on data, trade and passenger missions.

In the meantime... make it go boom!

 

[Darkfyre99]

In a nutshell, I believe it is bad for all three.

First, the use of exploits in PvP makes most people less likely to PvP. Most people don't like playing with a cheater, and if a PvP game (or game mode) gets a reputation for being full of cheaters, most people won't touch it with a 10' pole. Personally, I think the so-called "meta-game" skirts dangerously close to line between legitimate play and exploit as it is, which is probably why I don't do too well at PvP.

Second, I firmly believe that the use of exploits is horrible for PvE. I cringe every single time someone loses an Anaconda, Cutter, or Corvette due to not having enough for rebuy, because I just know they exploited their way into these ships, as opposed to gaining the skills they need to thrive at this game in the smaller, cheap ships, and their tiny rebuys. Because they lack those skills, there's an inevitable cycle of "grind away exploits," try to have fun, get killed repeatedly, and "grind away at exploits again." That is not my idea of fun.

Finally, it isn't good for Frontier Developments. Online games are especially vulnerable to bad word of mouth, and quite frankly a lenient stance on exploits attracts the type of player that will quickly drive away your player base.

 

[AbsinthSvK]

exploits are bad, but when they are still here in some form, all the time. Its useless to nerfing it, its too late.

Slow development and non existing hot fixes are specialty for frontier.

Its bad? Its good? I think its bad for pvp but pvp is already only illusion. Then i think its OK, play what you what and how you want...

 

[Ethaidan]

Just my opinions,feel free to post yours

There used to be a time,early 2015, that many of us hated exploits and complained about them. In those days Credits mattered.Even after a few exploits,credit still mattered as only the few had the billions.
Now after many exploits, Credits mean nothing as a whole. On a "per Cmdr" level,it still means a lot.

PvE : I think more are slowly venturing in to OPEN as they now have the means to rebuy many times over,and not worry about other Cmdrs. WIN
PvP : Allows more Cmdrs to try this game mode,as they have lots of disposable income now,also there are many from PvE venturing in to OPEN. WIN
FD : I really do think that this "Free Credit" part of the game has kept the numbers up.

BGS : Win ? Lose ? Sorry, I am not well versed enough in this subject to comment(will let you guys do so)
Is it wrong?(Exploits) : Yes, definitely, but it's here to stay(as in they fix one and another pops up soon enough)

FD makes up for the worthlessness of Credits by making G5 Mats/Data still something to work for.

PvE: Irrelevant regarding players just milling about doing their own thing. Re PP/BGS, potentially bad by allowing player groups to quickly acquire large trading vessels and the means to quickly and repeatedly stock them with whatever is needed to have a large effect on PP/BGS targets.

PvP: Bad, in the context that it can make players too nonchalant about rebuys & bounties - just look at some of the comments directed at the new C&P...

FD: I don't think it's by design - there are better, more interesting ways to infuse credits if needed... have random border areas between Powers go into crazy mining/trade/war competition every now and then with absurd mission payouts - instead of exploiting alone, this would bring commanders to the same group of systems, like a CG on crack spread out over multiple systems for a few weeks.

But, it is what it is.

 

[ilo]

Making 100M per hour, bounty for killing an NPC 800Cr. I see it is totally necessary to rebalance the risk and reward. Maybe increasing the bounties??

 

[dognosh]

Thank you for the replies and honesty
I have total respect for those who hate exploits and don't use them. Also , I ignore the self appointed preachers who tell others how to play.
I applaud those who are using game mechanics to UA bomb these exploits,good on you.
Myself? I play as I wish and as long I am having fun I will continue playing

 

[TheSynopticVision]

Making 100M per hour, bounty for killing an NPC 800Cr. I see it is totally necessary to rebalance the risk and reward. Maybe increasing the bounties??

I'll repeat what I said above: every single activity is made economically redundant by money fountains: BH, mining, piracy of NPCs or of megaships, trading, exploration, regular missions... There are still people who pirate or mine or explore because they just like the activity, regardless of the economic reward, but honestly they are a very very small minority. And in any case, in terms of game design, there should be a long-term incentive that goes beyond the simple pleasure of doing it. This is an MMO with an ambitious spatial and temporal scope, not Super Meat Boy.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I'll repeat what I said above: every single activity is made economically redundant by money fountains: BH, mining, piracy of NPCs or of megaships, trading, exploration, regular missions... There are still people who pirate or mine or explore because they just like the activity, regardless of the economic reward, but honestly they are a very very small minority. And in any case, in terms of game design, there should be a long-term incentive that goes beyond the simple pleasure of doing it. This is an MMO with an ambitious spatial and temporal scope, not Super Meat Boy.

Hmmmmm....

And in any case, in terms of game design, there should be a long-term incentive that goes beyond the simple pleasure of doing it.

And what exactly that would be beyond getting better tools to do what you already do?

 

[AbsinthSvK]

There are still people who pirate or mine or explore because they just like the activity, regardless of the economic reward, but honestly they are a very very small minority.

there are also people who exploits money and dont care about money anymore and pirate mine explore because they like it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Thank you for the replies and honesty
I have total respect for those who hate exploits and don't use them. Also , I ignore the self appointed preachers who tell others how to play.
I applaud those who are using game mechanics to UA bomb these exploits,good on you.
Myself? I play as I wish and as long I am having fun I will continue playing

Since people who are not me have appointed me as being a member of the fun hating brigade (something to do with jump ranges), I'd like to ask you to stop having fun. I hate that.

Appreciate it, thanks!