Exploration content in Horizons confirmed

[Sapient6]

A caveat of a procedurally generated universe unfortunately. I wouldn't personally mind random encounters if they are made relevant to explorers and don't repeat with the same instances ad nauseam. Finding ruins to explore for extra data for example. It certainly won't replace the need for more engaging mechanics, but I wouldn't object to them occuring

Something like "ruins to explore" needn't be a "random encounter". It could be part of the procedural generation. This would mean you can't just explore the same tiny patch on the same dusty potato all night, every night, and be "exploring" new ruins over and over. You'd have to find new tiny patches, and eventually new dusty potatos, but if you found a particularly cool Ruins you could share it with others and they could Come See It too.

Procedural Generation isn't the problem. It's the dumb Random Encounter Table tacked onto the game that needs to go.

 

[gooddoc]

It certainly won't replace the need for more engaging mechanics, but I wouldn't object to them occuring

FD's logic is...

Engaging Mechanics = Fire Fight!

 

[Snafu Manchu]

Something like "ruins to explore" needn't be a "random encounter". It could be part of the procedural generation. This would mean you can't just explore the same tiny patch on the same dusty potato all night, every night, and be "exploring" new ruins over and over. You'd have to find new tiny patches, and eventually new dusty potatos, but if you found a particularly cool Ruins you could share it with others and they could Come See It too.

Procedural Generation isn't the problem. It's the dumb Random Encounter Table tacked onto the game that needs to go.

I can't argue with that perspective, and it would be cool to be able to share something tangible, but could this be workable for the amount of planets out there?

 

[Katejina]

Has there been any solid hinting at strongholds on planets or just drones/wrecks/etc? I'm thinking that all of these signal sources we're hearing about might play a part in Horizons later on if not right away. I'd say keep an eye out for potential lore-based discoveries like already-destroyed bases or ships damaged by weapons not of human creation.

 

[newman1702]

Has there been any solid hinting at strongholds on planets or just drones/wrecks/etc? I'm thinking that all of these signal sources we're hearing about might play a part in Horizons later on if not right away. I'd say keep an eye out for potential lore-based discoveries like already-destroyed bases or ships damaged by weapons not of human creation.

There's been mention by FD of planet-side bases, the example they used was that a base you need to take out might be hard to target from the air so you may need to hop into an SRV. Of course, that's not really exploration related content. Perhaps we'll be able to find Thargoid bases at some point.. We did see a human planet base on concept art:

 

[Eisen]

Has there been any solid hinting at strongholds on planets or just drones/wrecks/etc? I'm thinking that all of these signal sources we're hearing about might play a part in Horizons later on if not right away. I'd say keep an eye out for potential lore-based discoveries like already-destroyed bases or ships damaged by weapons not of human creation.

MB said in the new DEV-Update, that strongholds, encounters and pew-pew will pretty much be in or near the bubble. There will be things to discover elsewhere that they will not disclose (whatever that means). But I was quite pleased with this new update.

 

[goemon]

I wouldn't really care for mission salvage if I was exploring either, more sort of spare parts and "ammo" for the AFMU. That would be a welcome addition for someone like me, who regularly forgets to throttle down after jumping.

I, like you, was a scenic explorer, but after a while it wasn't enough I began longing for mechanics that are little more meaningful and engaging than simply holding down the scan trigger. Don't get me wrong, I still love the games aesthetics, and I will be aiming to go out on another trip once horizons is launched, but you must admit, the current implementation is kind of shallow.

totally with you, that's why i'm only a scenic explorer, and no full time explorer - which should be as possible as being a fulltime combatpilot.

MB said in the new DEV-Update, that strongholds, encounters and pew-pew will pretty much be in or near the bubble. There will be things to discover elsewhere that they will not disclose (whatever that means). But I was quite pleased with this new update.

he was also referring to the lost colonies. yes, a uss/wss, finding a hint to a lost colonie, which brings you to a planet, where you gind hints etc. ... that could be interesting.

 

[jonne]

I really hope the devs take care of and add to exploration and make it even more interesting. It's one of the unique things in Elite compared to any other game before. It doesn't really matter when you head out, the galaxy will never be depleted. Not even close.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

MB said in the new DEV-Update, that strongholds, encounters and pew-pew will pretty much be in or near the bubble. There will be things to discover elsewhere that they will not disclose (whatever that means). But I was quite pleased with this new update.

I hope it means that it is good stuff and they don't want to give the game away until someone stumbles over it. If so, that is good.

On the other hand, they also used that device to not tell us about salvageable wreckage, and that is a fail. Though it may stop being a fail when we get looting and crafting, of course. The balance of probability, based on their track record, is that we should not get too excited.

 

[Katejina]

MB said in the new DEV-Update, that strongholds, encounters and pew-pew will pretty much be in or near the bubble. There will be things to discover elsewhere that they will not disclose (whatever that means). But I was quite pleased with this new update.

The Newsletter today is even more promising. Exploration content that is yet-to-be-revealed! Hype!

 

[Sapient6]

I can't argue with that perspective, and it would be cool to be able to share something tangible, but could this be workable for the amount of planets out there?

I don't really know what you mean by this?

Having "ruins" occur in a non-persistent random fashion (like a USS) isn't any less overhead than having their occurrences dictated by the procedural generation. From an explorer perspective, being able to return to something I've "discovered", whether I ever do return or not, is integral to my sense of it being a discovery. If it disappears the moment I look the other way, like a car in Grand Theft Auto, then it isn't worth recording in my exploration log. If I don't write it down in my exploration log then, from an exploration point of view, I consider it to be a waste of my time and a waste of FDev development resources.

 

[Snafu Manchu]

I don't really know what you mean by this?

Having "ruins" occur in a non-persistent random fashion (like a USS) isn't any less overhead than having their occurrences dictated by the procedural generation. From an explorer perspective, being able to return to something I've "discovered", whether I ever do return or not, is integral to my sense of it being a discovery. If it disappears the moment I look the other way, like a car in Grand Theft Auto, then it isn't worth recording in my exploration log. If I don't write it down in my exploration log then, from an exploration point of view, I consider it to be a waste of my time and a waste of FDev development resources.

I agree with what you're saying.

What I was unclear about is whether having persistent data for billions of planets would be more costly in terms of storage and loading than generating a random surface for each landing. I'm just trying to guess which option FD will go for...

 

[CMDR AKIRA MASAKARI]

Better stock up on flags to plant! I really hope I find something weird.

I hope that we will get rid of the "this one was the first here" tagging thing. Now with systems it could have been nice, but also pinning surface of planets with "this guy was first here" would be just cheap.

 

[Snafu Manchu]

I hope that we will get rid of the "this one was the first here" tagging thing. Now with systems it could have been nice, but also pinning surface of planets with "this guy was first here" would be just cheap.

You object to my zero-g golf course?

The first "discovered by" tag never really bothered me, but I do think map markers for the systems you had explored yourself would be more useful. It would be nice if there was a toggle you could click on to see where you've been highlighted on the GalMap.

 

[CMDR AKIRA MASAKARI]

You object to my zero-g golf course?

The first "discovered by" tag never really bothered me, but I do think map markers for the systems you had explored yourself would be more useful. It would be nice if there was a toggle you could click on to see where you've been highlighted on the GalMap.

That is another thing I'd would like very much. Now to bookmark stuff you have 3rd party tools or old P&P.

 

[Manok101]

I would like to see real exploration missions like, we think we have discovered life on this planet iwth our telescopes, we need someone to go there to check it out.

 

[Snafu Manchu]

That is another thing I'd would like very much. Now to bookmark stuff you have 3rd party tools or old P&P.

P&P is such a pain! I used an old, out-of-date diary the first time I went exploring and wrote down some useful stuff like scoopable stars and the various scan values on the first few pages, which followed on with lists of systems with earthlikes. The chronicling was short-lived... It's hard to look at it without the context of the GalMap.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I agree with what you're saying.

What I was unclear about is whether having persistent data for billions of planets would be more costly in terms of storage and loading than generating a random surface for each landing. I'm just trying to guess which option FD will go for...

Generating a galaxy, star system, planet or surface procedurally requires virtually no storage. That is one of the point of it. The biggest storage requirement that FD have is storing the exploration data - who has been where and first found, etc. That will grow and grow. Generating procedural content like a base takes virtually no storage. Having some sort of state for that base - damage, debris, crashed ships, etc., etc., suddenly starts to gobble up disc storage.

They could do bases like USSs, and that would be very naff indeed: fly away and it is gone. No thanks. They could generate the bases procedurally, so that when anyone goes to that place on that planet the base is there. But if the base is pristine again after the damage it took a few hours ago, then that would be naff. What we want is that state information.

 

[Snafu Manchu]

Generating a galaxy, star system, planet or surface procedurally requires virtually no storage. That is one of the point of it. The biggest storage requirement that FD have is storing the exploration data - who has been where and first found, etc. That will grow and grow. Generating procedural content like a base takes virtually no storage. Having some sort of state for that base - damage, debris, crashed ships, etc., etc., suddenly starts to gobble up disc storage.

They could do bases like USSs, and that would be very naff indeed: fly away and it is gone. No thanks. They could generate the bases procedurally, so that when anyone goes to that place on that planet the base is there. But if the base is pristine again after the damage it took a few hours ago, then that would be naff. What we want is that state information.

Ok. So if a planet was generated procedurally with it's own unique and persistent landmarks that can be discovered and shared, to be revisited (no USS or randoms), which is what we all want, it would have a higher price tag in terms of computing resources to keep that landmark data available for all players.

I have a feeling it's all RNG from here in that case...

 

[Faster than Jesus [VR]]

I'm pretty sure that settlements/bases are persistent and crash sites are RNG - I think it was in the stream from about a week ago.

p.s. that's one of my favourite ever Red Dwarf scenes