Exploration value formulae

Mike Reacher

Mike Reacher
straha20 said:
It looks like the system you mention here was a NON terraforming candidate body, and the bonus is the 50% first discovered bonus. The 20 HMC with payouts all over the place were likely a mix of terraformables, and non terraformables.
Click to expand...


Thanks straha20,
Just rechecked the planet and it says it is a candidate for Terraforming. Is this the same as terraformable?
Atmo is Ammonia 75.9%, Nitrogen 22.8% and Oxygen is 1.1%
It is 1.9078 Earth masses.
I tried to use MattG's computations, but think that I don't understand the equation.
 
Last edited:

LP Garnell

LP Garnell
Mike Reacher said:
Thanks straha20,
Just rechecked the planet and it says it is a candidate for Terraforming. Is this the same as terraformable?
Atmo is Ammonia 75.9%, Nitrogen 22.8% and Oxygen is 1.1%
It is 1.9078 Earth masses.
I tried to use MattG's computations, but think that I don't understand the equation.
Click to expand...

It looks like your TC Waterworld did not receive the TC bonus. With a full bonus it would have been 714,659. What's the stated atmosphere type (thick ammonia?) and surface temp? Below is graph of a sampling of WWs with Thick Ammonia atmospheres vs surface temp. YMMV. Y axis is bonus reduction %, with high being bad.
WW-Thick_Ammonia.JPG
 

LP Garnell

LP Garnell
straha20 said:
So your method in working on the formula boils down to manually recording the payout as you sell the data? As I said, I am returning from a mission to collect data on landable terraformables, so I have roughly 1,000 terraformables I will be selling in the next few days. If that data would be valuable to your research, I can try and record the payout info as well.
Click to expand...

Everyone has their own method for recording payouts. Have honed mine over 4 expeditions. Will share mine, fwiw.

First off, use ED Discovery. At the end of an expedition, do an export of data (which will dump every scan) as .csv and convert to excell format. Trim down to the timeframe and data you want. Note that one of the columns is terraformable status.

Modify this sheet to include columns with formulas for expected payout, expected terraformable bonus, bonus reduction, with a blank column for actual payout. The last is where you plug in individual payout data.

The crucial thing is that if the payout is different than what it should be, it is immediately obvious. The bonus reduction column should be 0%. So either you are getting shorted, or you fat fingered it in incorrectly. Both give you pause to give it a second look. If the former, take a screenshot.

Finished product looks like this, http://hypernova.net/edzone/exploration/Overall/Exploration_Consolidated_V4.1.xls. Formulas are embedded in the columns.

Since there are so many systems sold to cartographics, which ones you look at is also crucial. I eventually dropped down to looking at any sale for 70k and above. Reason being that HMCBs that have very little or no bonus will only be in the 30-60k range. Had usually scanned more planetary bodies in each system, so total was always a bit above that.

To determine if any one planetary body was on my spreadsheet of TCs, would use the three letter subsector designator in each bodies name. For ex, for "Blo Eurl PH-U d3-9 4 a", would plug PH-U into the search box at the top of my spreadsheet.

Doing all this, was able to capture sale data on 96% of the TC planets that were there, according to the original EDD export.

Of course, YMMV.
 
Last edited:

Mike Reacher

Mike Reacher
LP Garnell said:
It looks like your TC Waterworld did not receive the TC bonus. With a full bonus it would have been 714,659. What's the stated atmosphere type (thick ammonia?) and surface temp? Below is graph of a sampling of WWs with Thick Ammonia atmospheres vs surface temp. YMMV. Y axis is bonus reduction %, with high being bad.
http://www.hypernova.net/edzone/exploration/WW/Ammonia/WW-Thick_Ammonia.JPG
Click to expand...


To add some information:
Temp = 340 K
12.23 atmospheres
Gravity = 1.45 G
Atmosphere type = ammonia
Composition = 65.9% rock and 34.1% metal
Volcanism = iron magma
Radius = 7525 KM

I don't think anything else would help. So please just work out what the payout should be. And thank you for your time. Much appreciated.
PS Dont want money, just accuracy. (Just this once)
 

Jackie Silver

Jackie Silver
iain666 said:
Is anyone able to confirm the current pay out for Sag A*?
Click to expand...

If it's important, I can take my alt character out there to stretch her space-legs.

I am investigating the terraforming bonus payments using a reduced set of criteria (systems with a single star only, ELW that are not in a binary orbit, where possible ELW that are not moons and do not have moons), systems that are proc-gen only) to control for variables as much as possible. So far I've found zero deviations from the expected value after checking around two dozen ELW. By reducing things to a single planet orbiting a single star I'm able to get a precise value for the black body temperature of the worlds, and in principle to refine the boundaries of the specifically ELW habitable zone; my working guess is that the terraforming bonus may fall off at the extreme edges, but it's only a guess; once I've done a large number of these at least we can confirm it or cross that off the list!
 

MattG

MattG
Jackie Silver said:
If it's important, I can take my alt character out there to stretch her space-legs.

I am investigating the terraforming bonus payments using a reduced set of criteria (systems with a single star only, ELW that are not in a binary orbit, where possible ELW that are not moons and do not have moons), systems that are proc-gen only) to control for variables as much as possible. So far I've found zero deviations from the expected value after checking around two dozen ELW. By reducing things to a single planet orbiting a single star I'm able to get a precise value for the black body temperature of the worlds, and in principle to refine the boundaries of the specifically ELW habitable zone; my working guess is that the terraforming bonus may fall off at the extreme edges, but it's only a guess; once I've done a large number of these at least we can confirm it or cross that off the list!
Click to expand...

I started looking at that (you might even remember me asking about difference in goldilocks vs ELW zones :) ), but I kept hitting particular barriers and stopped investigating to draw useful conclusions. Of particular "annoyance" are a few of the binary pairs in the data that are substantially similar in composition but have (sometimes vastly) differing bonuses. I also looked at certain systems where there may be, say, 3 CFTs in a row - but the middle one doesn't get full bonus while outers do. Both scenarios seem to discount the zone theory - but as I say, I didn't actually get round to calculating their exact positions within the zone, perhaps other factors help cloud matters.

FWIW, ELWs not getting the full bonus are quite rare. Perhaps it would be worth starting with a couple from the existing data (assuming they're in single-star systems) and going from there? From memory, when trying to decipher the original formula I had over 50 ELW samples and just 1 didn't get the full bonus.
 

Jackie Silver

Jackie Silver
MattG said:
I started looking at that (you might even remember me asking about difference in goldilocks vs ELW zones :) ), but I kept hitting particular barriers and stopped investigating to draw useful conclusions. Of particular "annoyance" are a few of the binary pairs in the data that are substantially similar in composition but have (sometimes vastly) differing bonuses. I also looked at certain systems where there may be, say, 3 CFTs in a row - but the middle one doesn't get full bonus while outers do. Both scenarios seem to discount the zone theory - but as I say, I didn't actually get round to calculating their exact positions within the zone, perhaps other factors help cloud matters.

FWIW, ELWs not getting the full bonus are quite rare. Perhaps it would be worth starting with a couple from the existing data (assuming they're in single-star systems) and going from there? From memory, when trying to decipher the original formula I had over 50 ELW samples and just 1 didn't get the full bonus.
Click to expand...

Ah heh, yeah, I think I do remember now! :)

I'm quite enjoying the journey so I'll keep at it, if I don't turn up any suitable ones I'll do like you suggest and start from the known ones - a few people have mentioned that the habitable zones are slightly off so gathering better data on them is on my "to-do" list in any case :) - I am hopeless at staying focused on any one thing though, bad case of Attention Deficit Ooh Shiny!

@iain666 I'm sure I'll get to Sadge at some point, there's a part of me that finds it very funny to be flying around as a Harmless CMDR (hasn't fired a shot at anything except rocks) doing "advanced" stuff so a neutron buckyball jaunt to the Core would suit. *grins*
 

Valije

Valije
What is the best way to report the exploration value of terraformable candidates?. In my current trip I scanned near 4 thousand of them and counting (maybe 5-6k when I get to the bubble) and that may help to your findings.

Is there any way to check the value in the current logs or will screenshots be the only way?. All my data is uploaded to EDDN, so the only thing missing are the actual pay values.

I am willing to spend a couple of weeks for this task if needed (or until my patience runs out). Let's hope I make it back alive :D
 

Redfox

Redfox
Jackie Silver said:
I am investigating the terraforming bonus payments using a reduced set of criteria (systems with a single star only, ELW that are not in a binary orbit, where possible ELW that are not moons and do not have moons), systems that are proc-gen only) to control for variables as much as possible.
Click to expand...

A while and few pages back I had a similar look at WW TC payouts in relation to their position within the habitable zone... without any patterns emerging, as usual:

Redfox said:
The following chart shows 27 data points which survived the following filtering (to keep things simple):
  • Single star (no binaries etc.)
  • Water World
  • Single body (no binaries etc.)
  • That's not a moon
The observed k-Value % were then compared to the body's position within the Main Habitable Zone (according to Jackie's Hab-Zone Calculator):
dqPq4rT.png
Unfortunately, from this data there seems to be no correlation between the position within the MHZ and the TC-bonus k-value.
Click to expand...
 

Redfox

Redfox
Valije said:
What is the best way to report the exploration value of terraformable candidates?. In my current trip I scanned near 4 thousand of them and counting (maybe 5-6k when I get to the bubble) and that may help to your findings.

Is there any way to check the value in the current logs or will screenshots be the only way?. All my data is uploaded to EDDN, so the only thing missing are the actual pay values.

I am willing to spend a couple of weeks for this task if needed (or until my patience runs out). Let's hope I make it back alive :D
Click to expand...

In the current Journal only the full payout of a system or page sold to UC is logged, so no, there's (sadly!) no way to get the relevant per-body payout data from the logs - only from the UC sell-interface.

As for 'the best way': I think there are several, depending on how you like to work. With those impressive figures you've got there you might indeed be looking at a few weeks.

Anyway, here's how I proceed:
1) Take a screenshot (only of area where body-names and payouts are shown) of every system with a body worth more than x credits (I think I set my threshold for about 50k)
2) Run an OCR program over all those screenshots and transform the output (system name and payout) into a spreadsheet
3) Enrich that spreadsheet with body info/details, either from an EDD export (easy) or from an EDSM export (not so easy)

The other way that I've read is to:
1) Create a spreadsheet based on an EDD export (3 from above), filtered by TC=true
2) Browse the systems while selling to UC and look into any system above x credits (maybe 70k for full system); I would suggest taking screenshots too, just in case of typos or other mistakes
3) If you find a valuable body, search spreadsheet (best by the XX-X part) and enter the payout data into it

Optional for both approaches ;)
4) Take the formulae from this thread and calculate the expected full payout and flag any body not getting the full payout
5) Wreck your brain while trying to find an explanation
 

LP Garnell

LP Garnell
Valije said:
What is the best way to report the exploration value of terraformable candidates?. In my current trip I scanned near 4 thousand of them and counting (maybe 5-6k when I get to the bubble) and that may help to your findings.

Is there any way to check the value in the current logs or will screenshots be the only way?. All my data is uploaded to EDDN, so the only thing missing are the actual pay values.

I am willing to spend a couple of weeks for this task if needed (or until my patience runs out). Let's hope I make it back alive :D
Click to expand...

The second approach Redfox outlined in his post was an accurate summation of the one I used.

My full rundown is as follows: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...lue-formulae?p=6195062&viewfull=1#post6195062

It will take a while, ;)
 

Redfox

Redfox
We all seem to be working with our own, similar collections of data, containing our own and some of the data shared by others.

What do you usual suspects think of centralising our data in a publicly available google spreadsheet?
 

iain666

iain666
Redfox said:
We all seem to be working with our own, similar collections of data, containing our own and some of the data shared by others.

What do you usual suspects think of centralising our data in a publicly available google spreadsheet?
Click to expand...

Mine is all here - feel free to incorporate into a big sheet somewhere, I might look at trying to pull out another batch when I sell my DECE data, if there's a central thing by then I'll happily dump that into it.
 
Last edited:

Jackie Silver

Jackie Silver
@Iain I visited Sadge and I'm on my way to a starport (via the Shrogea space bar), shouldn't be too long, although I've had my fill of neutron jumps for now!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom