Exploration value formulae

Jackie Silver · Apr 4, 2018

Our cutting edge crack DISC research* suggests we have a very provisional value of k for Metal Rich World / Candidate for Terraforming planets, but they're so rare it's hard to be sure.
It's looking like k(MRW/CFT) ~= 254229. for the bonus value that a MRW terraforming candidate brings, using the standard k(MRW) of 52292 as a base.

There's another couple of known examples we hope to get values for sooner or later, but these things are like hen's teeth - if anyone knows of any other beyond the list here, please say!

BYOI THUA ZW-A C27-9
BYOI THUA JI-J D9-17

DROJEAE AY-F C25-1
BLAICHOAE GX-L D7-13
SPHUEDIA ZE-R D4-0
GLUDGOEA GW-E D11-20

So far we have values for all except the BLAICHOAE and GLUDGOEA ones - I'm on my way to GLUDGOEA.

*talking shop

MattG · Apr 5, 2018

Wait, Metal-Rich CFTs are a thing? Another unicorn for the list...

Jackie Silver · Apr 5, 2018

MattG said:
Wait, Metal-Rich CFTs are a thing? Another unicorn for the list...

That was my reaction also, I hadn't heard of them until a few days ago - they seem to be very much an edge case.

Cmdr Shijima · Apr 5, 2018

Jackie Silver said:
@iain

Sadge A* is worth only 628318 credits.

ARRRGH! I was literally just there yesterday (my first visit) and got excited at the big numbers reported in EDD!

Ah well, still got my EDSM badge and can say "I've been there".

Redfox · Apr 5, 2018

Jackie Silver said:
...Metal Rich World / Candidate for Terraforming planets...

if anyone knows of any other beyond the list here, please say!

Checked my EDD log and out of the 149 Metal rich bodies not one is a CFT :/

iain666 · Apr 5, 2018

Jackie Silver said:
Our cutting edge crack DISC research* suggests we have a very provisional value of k for Metal Rich World / Candidate for Terraforming planets, but they're so rare it's hard to be sure.
It's looking like k(MRW/CFT) ~= 254229. for the bonus value that a MRW terraforming candidate brings, using the standard k(MRW) of 52292 as a base.

Told EDD about them for 9.2...

Jackie Silver · Apr 6, 2018

After getting data for the fifth one it looks like the bonus multiplier of the second half of the binary is not affecting the value for the MRW/CFT, so if we revise the k value down to 245306 then two of the known planets fit right on to it - until we get more planets to check the values for it's hard to be sure but this lower value looks more promising for now.

Sorry to have jumped the gun slightly before...

The five known points are marked on this graph, with a fit line using k = 245306 that two of the points fall on.

MattG · Apr 6, 2018

So did none of the MRW-CFTs get a full bonus? Or am I mis-reading graph?

What k-values did you get for them ?

I've been going through the original formula, and it's interesting to note that if expressed the same way as now then there was just 1 k value for "terraformability" - so HMC, RW and ELW/WW all shared the same k. But more interestingly, the k-scale was linear - it seemed to be split evenly across 34 values, unlike now where it's 35 (I think!) and there's some sort of scaling happening to it. I cannot figure out why that part would be different. Perhaps I made a mistake with the older values and they weren't linear (and I don't fancy re-trawling it TBH). It's also bothering me that I can't see a link between the body value of k vs the terraformable value for k.

Jackie Silver · Apr 6, 2018

MattG said:
So did none of the MRW-CFTs get a full bonus? Or am I mis-reading graph?

What k-values did you get for them ?

I've been going through the original formula, and it's interesting to note that if expressed the same way as now then there was just 1 k value for "terraformability" - so HMC, RW and ELW/WW all shared the same k. But more interestingly, the k-scale was linear - it seemed to be split evenly across 34 values, unlike now where it's 35 (I think!) and there's some sort of scaling happening to it. I cannot figure out why that part would be different. Perhaps I made a mistake with the older values and they weren't linear (and I don't fancy re-trawling it TBH). It's also bothering me that I can't see a link between the body value of k vs the terraformable value for k.

I think the two Xs that lie on the grey line in the graph are getting 100% of the bonus. The grey line is my best attempt at a fit with k = 245306.
We really need more of them though to be sure.

Is there a better formula to use than the one on the front page of the thread? I'm late to the party here and blundering around.

(ETA) oops, doh, it's in the spoiler, ignore me

MattG · Apr 6, 2018

Jackie Silver said:
I think the two Xs that lie on the grey line in the graph are getting 100% of the bonus. The grey line is my best attempt at a fit with k = 245306.
We really need more of them though to be sure.

Righty

Is there a better formula to use than the one on the front page of the thread? I'm late to the party here and blundering around.

(ETA) oops, doh, it's in the spoiler, ignore me

The "best" one is the front page one, the spoiler one is the older one - but extrapolated out gives all terraformability a max-k of ~40524. Redundant now though. I was hoping for clues from it, but it doesn't seem to hold any. I have trouble believing FD just pulled these new values out of thin air though, there surely has to be either a relationship between them, or to the regular body k values.

Jackie Silver · Apr 6, 2018

MattG said:
Righty

The "best" one is the front page one, the spoiler one is the older one - but extrapolated out gives all terraformability a max-k of ~40524. Redundant now though. I was hoping for clues from it, but it doesn't seem to hold any. I have trouble believing FD just pulled these new values out of thin air though, there surely has to be either a relationship between them, or to the regular body k values.

Yeah, definitely. I expect whatever formula FD uses, all the constants are nice round numbers.

LP Garnell · Apr 6, 2018

MattG said:
Wait, Metal-Rich CFTs are a thing? Another unicorn for the list...

Yikes.

Went to my lists, and none of my 284 MRBs are TCs.

marx · Apr 6, 2018

Now that's surprising. How many have been found so far?

Jackie Silver · Apr 6, 2018

marx said:
Now that's surprising. How many have been found so far?

Six are known to edsm.

So far as I know, all of them are part of a binary pair with another planet, and they all have proportions of metal to rock that are higher than an HMC world but lower than the typical 100% metal worlds.

marx · Apr 6, 2018

Only six? And that part about the metal-rock ratio is interesting. I wonder about terraforming suitability now. Would you mind sharing the names of those six if you have them around? EDDB.io is no longer suitable for such a search, and I'd rather not re-download the latest database dump to check for these.

Jackie Silver · Apr 6, 2018

marx said:
Only six? And that part about the metal-rock ratio is interesting. I wonder about terraforming suitability now. Would you mind sharing the names of those six if you have them around? EDDB.io is no longer suitable for such a search, and I'd rather not re-download the latest database dump to check for these.

Sure the systems are on my post #181 above. The planets are:

BYOI THUA ZW-A C27-9 B 4
BYOI THUA JI-J D9-17 B 3
DROJEAE AY-F C25-1 A 1
BLAICHOAE GX-L D7-13 A 1
SPHUEDIA ZE-R D4-0 1
GLUDGOEA GW-E D11-20 3

marx · Apr 6, 2018

Jackie Silver said:
Sure the systems are on my post #181 above. The planets are:

BYOI THUA ZW-A C27-9 B 4
BYOI THUA JI-J D9-17 B 3
DROJEAE AY-F C25-1 A 1
BLAICHOAE GX-L D7-13 A 1
SPHUEDIA ZE-R D4-0 1
GLUDGOEA GW-E D11-20 3

I derped.
Thanks!

Redfox · Apr 6, 2018

marx said:
Only six? And that part about the metal-rock ratio is interesting. I wonder about terraforming suitability now. Would you mind sharing the names of those six if you have them around? EDDB.io is no longer suitable for such a search, and I'd rather not re-download the latest database dump to check for these.

EDSM's advanced search is great nowadays, but was missing the 'terraforming state'. Less than 24h after asking Anthor about it one can now filter by terraformability:
https://www.edsm.net/en/search/bodies/index/group/2/radius/250/terraformable/1/type/1

So 6 terraformable vs 115'442 non-terraformable. If my math is right, that makes them.. the rarest thing in the ED galaxy?

Spansh · Apr 24, 2018

marx said:
Only six? And that part about the metal-rock ratio is interesting. I wonder about terraforming suitability now. Would you mind sharing the names of those six if you have them around? EDDB.io is no longer suitable for such a search, and I'd rather not re-download the latest database dump to check for these.

Redfox said:
EDSM's advanced search is great nowadays, but was missing the 'terraforming state'. Less than 24h after asking Anthor about it one can now filter by terraformability:
https://www.edsm.net/en/search/bodies/index/group/2/radius/250/terraformable/1/type/1

So 6 terraformable vs 115'442 non-terraformable. If my math is right, that makes them.. the rarest thing in the ED galaxy?

My site has been able to do that kind of thing for a long time https://spansh.co.uk/bodies

https://spansh.co.uk/bodies/search/7F60BAEA-47A8-11E8-88D9-8BF2BCC9DAEE

Jackie Silver · Apr 24, 2018

That is... disgustingly fast versus the slow trawls I've been running.

We're up to seven known examples now. Me and Taen have been trying to narrow down the parameters that lead to them forming but no special luck as yet. All seem to be in binary with another planet.

Most metal-rich bodies, unlike these ones, have a composition of 100% metal, 0% rock, 0% ice, from looking at examples of metal-rich bodies with (comparatively) low density there seem to be broadly three types of metal-rich body: 1) 100% metal, 0% rock, 0% ice, 2) n% metal (where n is significantly less than 100!), 0% rock, 0% ice and 3) ~50+% metal, ~50-% rock, 0% ice.