Explorers at Jaques - You Have No Excuse Anymore

[CMDR Disco Cat]

But you can't ignore one thing - be prepared at least being able to run away or do temporary combat is a must in ED. You can't escape it. All PvP discussion aside - which is very "useful" tag for both sides to fret over - it is something people just want to dismiss, but it won't go away.

For NPCs ? Yeah, as I said my concerns with what OP says is that engineered combat-ships from players are impossible to counter or survive when you're not yourself good in combat and with an engineered ship.

I play in open and escape 4, 8, 10 interdictions from NPCs when I stack missions, no problem, but I have 700+ hours into the game. That's not as easy for everybody. And if a 5 million rebuy doesn't bother me because I got the cash for dozens of rebuys, that's not the case for newer players. Or explorers, really, as you know that exploration doesn't pay that much.

 

[Maxmilian Czhilli]

My issue was the use of the "that phrase" when you say you're being told how to play game just because things aren't going your way.

Are you referring to me personally? Let me assure you that I ignore those who try tell me how to play. Especially when it is accompanied by an arrogant attitude. And things are always going my way in the game because I play the way I want to and not the way others think I should play. I spend 90% of my time in Open and treat every death the same whether it's by a player, an NPC or boiling in a binary star system. If I don't push past my limits and die occasionally I don't know where my limits are and I don't improve as fast.

But that's just me. Others are free to have their own play styles and attitudes to ship loss.

From a more broad perspective, perhaps you'd be right if that attitude was there. But all I see is 95% helpful advice about RNGIneers and 5% "well it's going to happen so pay attention". If that is too much for people to handle, they really really shouldn't be on forums. Sorry.

My reaction was the use of phrases such as "no excuses", "no sympathy" and "You're just bad at playing it." That last one was from you. It's setting yourself up as an authority and superior to other players. Your values are not necessarily the same as other player's values. Your opinions are not fact.

And the idea that players who don't play a certain way are looking for "excuses", "sympathy" or are "bad" are simply a projection of what you believe to be the attitudes of others. I've seen little evidence of this. Apparently 100 players were killed by the gankers at Jaques and I haven't seen any of them whining on the forum.

It really is useful stuff up there. Made the point a few times that you don't need to be a PvPer to benefit from RNGineers, which is in a beautiful twist of irony the point of this post. Guess which side turned it into a ruck

Yep there is some useful advice up there. But it's hardly revolutionary. I don't believe anyone has claimed that the engineers are purely of use for PVP. I'm a PVE player and engineer all my ships to best suit their roles. In fact my explorer Type-6 is fitted with strengthened shields, chaff, point defence, multi cannons with incendiary rounds and A rated dirty drives so that I can survive interdictions. To be honest I will be refitting with clean drives the next time I'm in the bubble because I've decided that the risk of overheating from the dirty drives is far greater than the bonus speed is worth. I fit far closer to the OPs recommendation than these supposed paper explorer fits. So which side am I on?

If there is any ruck from me it is about the condescending attitude towards the play style choices of other players. You really don't want to take me on when it comes to that. My condescension cannons are fitted with level 5 verbosity mods with the smugness special effect.

 

[OnePercent]

Or go into a group or Solo

 

[jasonbarron]

Spoken as someone who is in on the development and implementation of Thargoids in this game. I sadly do not have your inside information, and will react on the galaxy as it is, not as it hyperbolically might be. I spent 6 months in some outback in the Bubble avoiding NPCs, I expect to be able to avoid the Thargies when I have the whole galaxy at my disposal. On tghe other hand, if it turns out you are right, and the Thargoids will have occupied most of the 400 billion systems in the galaxy, and I have nowhere to run and will be forced to do combat, then I think I'll look for other games to occupy myself.

I agree with all the folks who are of the opinion that Fdev won't suddenly fill the galaxy with hostile aliens, and that if they did it would be a big mistake, but I have to point out the major flaw in your thinking on this topic, Ziggy: If you go on an exploration jaunt of weeks/months/better part of a year in solo in your paper thin Asp or DBX or whatever as 99% of explorers are want to do, how many hostile encounters that you are completely underprepared to cope with does it take to ruin your entire trip?

I'd think one would do the trick.

That's right my fellow explorers: Fdev doesn't have to fill the entire galaxy with aliens to cause you to lose potentially months of game progress. All they need to do is have an alien or two over the course of weeks or months to completely destroy you and all of your progress. The reality is that you guys don't even need engineered mods (though I 100% agree with the OP), you could at the very least use existing methods to properly equip your ships for the barest minimum of defensiveness. Since you guys can't even be troubled to do that much, you stand no chance at all even if Fdev takes the cheap-out route and designs the eventual aliens to be no more dangerous than the average pirate NPC.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

Personally, I suspect even a modded, A-Rated Asp will have difficulty in combat against Thargoids, so the only option will be to run.... which might also be more difficult than against human attackers. (Some of those tip-off messages make me think Thargoids will interdict from in front of you rather than from behind).

Anyway, being escape aware is likely to be the best option for most explorers. Also, I get the impression.(nothing definite) from dev comments prior to 2.1 that only certain regions are likely to spawn new dangers rather than the entire galaxy (in fact, I think MB said one place in particular... guessing that'll be around the Pleiades.)

Could be completely wrong on much of this, but they are my risks (have lots of mods, but still mostly D rated modules). As someone else said, the best shields you can get on the Asp aren't that great anyway, and firepower is fairly limited for most builds too.

I do keep considering exploring in something else, but whatever ship s I end up flying around the bubble, I always miss the Asps cockpit view.

 

[hammerreborn]

I agree with all the folks who are of the opinion that Fdev won't suddenly fill the galaxy with hostile aliens, and that if they did it would be a big mistake, but I have to point out the major flaw in your thinking on this topic, Ziggy: If you go on an exploration jaunt of weeks/months/better part of a year in solo in your paper thin Asp or DBX or whatever as 99% of explorers are want to do, how many hostile encounters that you are completely underprepared to cope with does it take to ruin your entire trip?

I'd think one would do the trick.

That's right my fellow explorers: Fdev doesn't have to fill the entire galaxy with aliens to cause you to lose potentially months of game progress. All they need to do is have an alien or two over the course of weeks or months to completely destroy you and all of your progress. The reality is that you guys don't even need engineered mods (though I 100% agree with the OP), you could at the very least use existing methods to properly equip your ships for the barest minimum of defensiveness. Since you guys can't even be troubled to do that much, you stand no chance at all even if Fdev takes the cheap-out route and designs the eventual aliens to be no more dangerous than the average pirate NPC.

Maybe for the first few, but once the combat capabilities of them are known people will adjust accordingly. The paper thin no shields builds might be sol (or they'll combat log NPCs), but on the most part submit -> wake I can't see not being successful either way. The no shields will be scary because from my experience NPCs love going for cockpits, which is a death sentence for someone in the black.

People in this thread keep talking about needing engineers to stay alive and we already know that's bull, since there are 1.6 players and they won't make it impossible for them to survive encounters. They'll suffer, but it'll have to be something they can deal with without engineer mods.

 

[verminstar]

That's up to you. Of course solo is the safest mode of travel.

But many see the colony as a great place to interact with like minded players.

The Colonia Citizens Network have recaptured the community spirit from the Distant Worlds Expedition and brought it to Jaques. So if you want multiplayer interactivity and join in with colony events, then open play or the colony private group is the way to go. If not, stay solo [up]

Sorry, but I have seen what was in open and while I openly admit my experiences are possibly just isolated cases, I was perhaps simply unlucky to have met the worst of your kind within my first 2 weeks in the game. I believe the term for that is "seal clubbing" although the so called "pvprs" will likely refer to it as "educating"...yes that was the word they used while laughed about it afterwards.

I can assure you that was merely my first taste of how "friendly" this community is...just the first example, wanna hear more? No lets not...fairly sure ye know what I mean. They justify themselves by telling themselves and everyone else who cares to listen it's all a part of the role play. I've been a gamer a very very long time and I know what griefing is...seal clubbing, ganking whatever term ye use to justify it to yerself, I really don't care. It was my "education" and I am a fast learner...been there done that sorta thing.

So I'm sorry, but yer just gonna have to get yer thrills elsewhere...I'm staying in solo anytime I get even remotely close to a place where there are other players. My opinion of this game is no different from when I first arrived several months ago...it's a multiplayer single player game with a fairly toxic community ^^

 

[Jukelo]

Would have been nice if anyone went the extra mile and checked if Engineer Mods do you any good once your Structural Integrity has reached 0%.

You can only slap 400ish mW of shields onto an ASP and then you're already crippling it for exploration, so "fortify your brittle hull just to get smashed once your 'by design' unfortifyable, paper thin shields are gone" might actually be counterproductive and it's really the football player trying to teach the violinist a "valuable lesson for life" -> "don't skip leg day".

Structural integrity at 0% reduces HP to 70%. Far from one-hit territory.

 

[Deadspin]

Eh, the toxic community bit falls on all sides of the community if we're being honest.

Some people have bad experiences, some people don't, it happens. The "seal clubbing" portion of players is incredibly small, but thanks to places like this forum and Reddit, they have an exceptionally large presence due to all of the seals.

I used to hunt seal clubbers. It was fun. Now I just putter around on featureless moons looking for arsenic.

 

[verminstar]

Eh, the toxic community bit falls on all sides of the community if we're being honest.

Some people have bad experiences, some people don't, it happens. The "seal clubbing" portion of players is incredibly small, but thanks to places like this forum and Reddit, they have an exceptionally large presence due to all of the seals.

I used to hunt seal clubbers. It was fun. Now I just putter around on featureless moons looking for arsenic.

Ok so perhaps I did over state that a bit, but it's hard fer me to think anything else. The only social aspect fer me is through the forums and I have absolutely no friends in this game...used to but they moved on to different things. They the ones who convinced me to come here from another game where I'd played hard fer 5 and half years...and ironically that was pvp only...work that one out.

I'm happy enough with the single player aspect...the mp aspect is just too stressful in this game at my age and everytime I do play in open, I get wiped out by someone somewhere. Every...single...time

Maybe I'm just jinxed

 

[Trinity Star]

Join a nice private group, problem solved.

 

[Iain L]

I've got Solo, and if FDev ever decide to make the game unplayable for people who don't have Engineer access by streaming interdictions at you all the time, well then I've got other games. I've had my money's worth from it, should the fun ever stop.

 

[verminstar]

Join a nice private group, problem solved.

Or stay in solo and continue to play the game without the hassle of dealing with them entirely...problem also solved ^^

Oh and that time I was ganked on my 2 week anniversary of the game? That was an invite to join a PVE player group...gotta see the funny side hmm?

 

[StiTch]

*schnip*
If there is any ruck from me it is about the condescending attitude towards the play style choices of other players. You really don't want to take me on when it comes to that. My condescension cannons are fitted with level 5 verbosity mods with the smugness special effect.

To address all of the above, just...keep it on topic. No it's not new, but neither is anything else on the forums, in particular "that" open/private discussion, which is far more trampled on and still got dragged into this.

With regards to the condescension cannons...that sounds all well and good but I am an experienced, exclusively PvP Open Arguments player. I use two condescension cannons and a single C4 sarcasm beam, all with grade 5 indignation mods and the highly OP "Wall of Text" experimental effect that procs at random (albeit frequently).

Nope, very much in Open. And very rorenly

And who's bringing up Solo now?

It was humour...?

Humour (noun): that thing I try once every couple of months and quickly forget about on the basis I don't know what it actually is.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Structural integrity at 0% reduces HP to 70%. Far from one-hit territory.

Hm, so basically the HP with engineer mods are slightly above stock level, if you get lucky on the G5 roll with the Painite lady.
Not bad against NPCs, but in the light of engineer modded weapons, not really cutting it either. My Vette does about 110 DPS against an ASP X (not fully modded weapons yet, no "high burst" loadout and not counting engineer special effects). That's about 7-10 seconds to burn trough anything smaller than a Python.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

Sorry, but I have seen what was in open and while I openly admit my experiences are possibly just isolated cases, I was perhaps simply unlucky to have met the worst of your kind within my first 2 weeks in the game. I believe the term for that is "seal clubbing" although the so called "pvprs" will likely refer to it as "educating"...yes that was the word they used while laughed about it afterwards.

I can assure you that was merely my first taste of how "friendly" this community is...just the first example, wanna hear more? No lets not...fairly sure ye know what I mean. They justify themselves by telling themselves and everyone else who cares to listen it's all a part of the role play. I've been a gamer a very very long time and I know what griefing is...seal clubbing, ganking whatever term ye use to justify it to yerself, I really don't care. It was my "education" and I am a fast learner...been there done that sorta thing.

So I'm sorry, but yer just gonna have to get yer thrills elsewhere...I'm staying in solo anytime I get even remotely close to a place where there are other players. My opinion of this game is no different from when I first arrived several months ago...it's a multiplayer single player game with a fairly toxic community ^^

I think you've got your wires crossed about what players are trying to set up out at Jaques. Its the complete opposite of what you're going on about. A bit of background reading should make it a little clearer :

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/282462-The-Colonia-Citizens-Network

Also, please define what you meant by "worst of my kind". I dedicate my time in ED to setting up expeditions, overseeing the mapping project, and am involved with the Formidine Rift role-played story, and now CCN. Its all harmless I assure you! The last time (and only time) I shot at another player was during the Aulin Apocalypse - it was consensual and the last night of beta, nearly 2 years ago

 

[jasonbarron]

The following is a reply I was typing for the Adders Killing Explorers At Jaques thread that is no longer...

Additional Note: Those of you already at Jaques - yes it's probably too late for you. Those of you who are thinking of going to Jaques - this is for you.

This probably won't be a popular opinion for some, but...

Fellow Explorers, there is no longer any excuse to have a paper-thin exploration ship.

No. Excuse.

To those who have Horizons, spend the time and effort needed to harden your Exploration vessel before rushing out into the Void. Don't just get your FSD range-extended and be done with it.

There are plenty of mods you can do to turn your previously paper-thin ship into something even a Thargoid might think twice about attacking, let alone griefers...

Heavy Duty Armour mod : It's like a free present - all the benefits of the modification, and on standard lightweight armour, zero mass gain.

Lightweight Mount mod : Reduces the mass of weapons, with the possibility of additional weapons effects - if you game the game properly you can 'purchase' these effects and quickly regain Engineer rep for more mods.

Dirty Drive Tuning for your D-rated thrusters: these come with a heat cost but will turn your D-rated thrusters into something with a lot more oomph. The heat can be countered with...

Low Emissions Power Plant mod : helps lower your ship's heat - handy for fuel scooping.

Mods for Shield Boosters : various varieties, the more important one being for heat - get a bit more protection from heat weapons.

Above all, if you can't fight or won't fight - learn how to hi-wake away from danger. Practice quickly selecting a nearby system from the nav panel and jump to it. Don't use the galmap - use the nav panel on the left, it's much quicker and you can quickly select a system within your current jump range.

Learn how to evade interdiction - if you see a hollow triangle in supercruise, that player more than likely is sporting a FSD interdictor - face that player, drop down to normal space, boost, boost, select a different system and jump out, then decide what you're going to do afterwards when you have the time.

If you are interdicted - immediately submit, boost away, select a system to jump to and jump. Then decide what to do later when you have more time.

Seriously guys - we no longer have the luxury of exploring in peace. You all need to start getting prepped for disaster.

If you're still getting murdered after this then I have zero sympathy for you.

EDIT: The reason I will have no sympathy for you is..
1) You ignore "Winter is coming". We don't know what FDEV has in store for us concerning the Thargoids - and/or other aliens.
2) You chose to play in Open at Jaques, expecting it to be different than playing in Open in the bubble, and being surprised when gankers take the trouble to fly to Jaques and murder you.
3) There is no utopia in Open at Jaques other than either playing in Solo, or playing in a private group with other like-minded Explorers.


To those who don't have Horizons - get Horizons, the whole season is going to be worth it.

p.s. Winter is coming.

Great thread, Genar. I completely agree with you on this matter, and the future of exploration in general. I don't see Fdev littering the galaxy with hostile aliens, but all it takes is one if you're caught with your pants down (which is the very definition of how most explorer's outfit & fly in regards to hostility preparedness) in the middle of nowhere, 2 months from your last save.

Of course explorers don't really need the engineers if they're dead set against using them; they could simply sacrifice jump range to fit their ships properly to give them a chance at evading a hostile. But I don't see that as the smart move, just an alternative. The smart move is modding up. It's easy, it's fun, and it's effective. Bessy VI, the Anaconda I took to Beagle Point & back this spring, is now packing 3x point defense, military grade comp, all A rated modules that would easily keep me up to par in battle if I wanted, and still has 33 LY jump range. Modded in almost every way possible, impervious to damage, and still capable of making better time to BP then she was when I took her in the spring.

Based on the comments I've seen from some/many of the explorers on this thread it seems like they'd rather threaten to "leave the game" if Fdev dares to introduce aliens to the deeps of space than even do the barest minimums of preparing themselves and their ships; hard to feel sympathetic for them in my view. And, if I'm allowed to speak honestly here, if forced to choose, I'd rather have the aliens then them.

Prepare or burn. Your choice, explorers.

 

[Sunleader]

I think you've got your wires crossed about what players are trying to set up out at Jaques. Its the complete opposite of what you're going on about. A bit of background reading should make it a little clearer : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ens-Network?highlight=colonia+citizen+network

Also, please define what you meant by "worst of my kind". I dedicate my time in ED at setting up expeditions, overseeing the mapping project, and am involved with the Formidine Rift role-played story. Its all harmless I assure you!

Standart Experience alot of New Player make upon Trying Open. Is that they are Killed with no Reason no Cargo and no Meaning.
Sometimes Repeatedly by Interdictions they at this Point dont understand. By Ships far beyond their Capacities and by Players far beyond their Experience.

And if your Following the Combat Logging Thread where such People openly say that in Open you have to Life with the Fact that you might be Killed for someone elses Passtime even if your a Sidewinder and he is an Anaconda. And that this is the legit and intended way to play the Game.
Then you might understand why People will not go to Open.


You can try setting up whatever. But you cant stop these People from Griefing. So what your trying is meaningless

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Great thread, Genar. I completely agree with you on this matter, and the future of exploration in general. I don't see Fdev littering the galaxy with hostile aliens, but all it takes is one if you're caught with your pants down (which is the very definition of how most explorer's outfit & fly in regards to hostility preparedness) in the middle of nowhere, 2 months from your last save.

Of course explorers don't really need the engineers if they're dead set against using them; they could simply sacrifice jump range to fit their ships properly to give them a chance at evading a hostile. But I don't see that as the smart move, just an alternative. The smart move is modding up. It's easy, it's fun, and it's effective.

Based on the comments I've seen from some/many of the explorers on this thread it seems like they'd rather threaten to "leave the game" if Fdev dares to introduce aliens to the deeps of space than even do the barest minimums of preparing themselves and their ships; hard to feel sympathetic for them in my view.

Prepare or burn. Your choice, explorers.

As I said before.
My Exploration Anaconda with which i set out after being Frustrated about the Free Money Give Aways.
Is an Anaconda with 21 Light Years Jump Range.
I am Armed with Shield and Module Breaking Weapons and Shielded Properly with Resistant Shields as well as including Repair Units, Shield Batteries, Chaffs and Heat Sinks.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

Standart Experience alot of New Player make upon Trying Open. Is that they are Killed with no Reason no Cargo and no Meaning.
Sometimes Repeatedly by Interdictions they at this Point dont understand. By Ships far beyond their Capacities and by Players far beyond their Experience.

And if your Following the Combat Logging Thread where such People openly say that in Open you have to Life with the Fact that you might be Killed for someone elses Passtime even if your a Sidewinder and he is an Anaconda. And that this is the legit and intended way to play the Game.
Then you might understand why People will not go to Open.


You can try setting up whatever. But you cant stop these People from Griefing. So what your trying is meaningless

Its not meaningless to the 700 colonists who have become part of CCN in the first 10 days of it going live.

And for the record, all the events we hold are in a private group that follows Mobius rules - anyone attacking another player within it is kicked out, for good.

 

[PavelKCZ]

Plus, there is also a Militia at Jaques. It does not help always, but there was several incidents, when the organised Militia was able to get rid of griefer in Open. There are even some CMDRs who are regulary patrolling around Jaques and helps against the griefers.

I was always mostly Solo player, but I must say that the whole CCN thing is cool and fun way how to play a bit of multiplayer in ED.