Explorers at Jaques - You Have No Excuse Anymore

[GTwannabe]

Heavy Duty Armour mod : It's like a free present - all the benefits of the modification, and on standard lightweight armour, zero mass gain.

Lightweight Mount mod : Reduces the mass of weapons, with the possibility of additional weapons effects - if you game the game properly you can 'purchase' these effects and quickly regain Engineer rep for more mods.

Dirty Drive Tuning for your D-rated thrusters: these come with a heat cost but will turn your D-rated thrusters into something with a lot more oomph. The heat can be countered with...

Low Emissions Power Plant mod : helps lower your ship's heat - handy for fuel scooping.

Mods for Shield Boosters : various varieties, the more important one being for heat - get a bit more protection from heat weapons.

HD Armor - Good upgrade for lightweight alloys, but not a huge bump

Lightweight Mount - OK, but you won't be fighting anything successfully in a dedicated exploration ship. Good to have for the eventual "I discovered new alien gizmos floating in space... what happens if I shoot it in its stupid face?"

Dirty Drive Tuning - Terrible idea for an explorer. Dramatically increases power consumption (requires larger, heavier powerplant) and adds heat. Clean drive tuning is what you want.

Low Emissions Powerplant - Maybe if you get an awesome roll and don't lose any capacity. But you'll probably take a hit on PP output so you're back to needing a larger, heavier powerplant. I prefer to run an undersize A-rate PP; runs cooler.

Shield Boosters - Again, you're not staying to fight. Shield boosters just add unnecessary mass and suck power. A full set of countermeasures would be more useful since you will be running.

 

[Godsailsaqueen]

To be fair, using Adders for PvP is sort of like one seal clubbing another seal. They're both seals. So....

Adders for PvP : pvp anguish/stress free. Nothing to lose - no fear of staying until the end. Just a number increasing on the right hand panel.

I love the adder though. And I lquite liked the vid. There was something touching about this commander in his conda who tried and tried.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

HD Armor - Good upgrade for lightweight alloys, but not a huge bump

Lightweight Mount - OK, but you won't be fighting anything successfully in a dedicated exploration ship. Good to have for the eventual "I discovered new alien gizmos floating in space... what happens if I shoot it in its stupid face?"

Dirty Drive Tuning - Terrible idea for an explorer. Dramatically increases power consumption (requires larger, heavier powerplant) and adds heat. Clean drive tuning is what you want.

Low Emissions Powerplant - Maybe if you get an awesome roll and don't lose any capacity. But you'll probably take a hit on PP output so you're back to needing a larger, heavier powerplant. I prefer to run an undersize A-rate PP; runs cooler.

Shield Boosters - Again, you're not staying to fight. Shield boosters just add unnecessary mass and suck power. A full set of countermeasures would be more useful since you will be running.

See this is the kind of good input that's needed here - thanks.

 

[AnotherVoice]

Or they can do what the OP suggests and put as much preparation into survivability as they do jump range. And I say this having flown to Beagle Point and back in a full rail gun conda.

If all else fails they can learn to high wake.. because again, Adders

You (and people thinking alike you) need to stop trying to force a playstyle over other players in the community. It's not gonna happen, and that's exactly why Frontier did 3 separate game mode, so people could enjoy the game the way they want, without grinding weapons or ships to stay alive if they don't want to. (let's not talk about surviving NPC, who are nowhere dangerous when you get a bit of experience)

Open was meant to be the place with the higher chance to INTERACT with other player, not doing pure PVP with them (that's 2 very different things). The proof that this game wasn't designed for PVP is how crime and punishment is handled: purely PVE oriented.

So, sorry to say, but if you're eager of PVP gameplay, you choosed the wrong game, and ruining the day of people who thought naively that Open was a place only full of friendly people isn't going to do anything despite making them play Solo / Private.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

HD Armor - Good upgrade for lightweight alloys, but not a huge bump

Lightweight Mount - OK, but you won't be fighting anything successfully in a dedicated exploration ship. Good to have for the eventual "I discovered new alien gizmos floating in space... what happens if I shoot it in its stupid face?"

Dirty Drive Tuning - Terrible idea for an explorer. Dramatically increases power consumption (requires larger, heavier powerplant) and adds heat. Clean drive tuning is what you want.

Low Emissions Powerplant - Maybe if you get an awesome roll and don't lose any capacity. But you'll probably take a hit on PP output so you're back to needing a larger, heavier powerplant. I prefer to run an undersize A-rate PP; runs cooler.

Shield Boosters - Again, you're not staying to fight. Shield boosters just add unnecessary mass and suck power. A full set of countermeasures would be more useful since you will be running.

Repped for being on topic!

 

[JosiahD]

Or they can do what the OP suggests and put as much preparation into survivability as they do jump range. And I say this having flown to Beagle Point and back in a full rail gun conda.

If all else fails they can learn to high wake.. because again, Adders

Except that's NOT what most people uninterested in PvP will do in the first instance. And before you say open play is PvP mode, it's not, it's the same PvE-focused play that solo and private also offer - it's just that in open, the rules of engagement are such that PvP is also permitted anywhere, anytime within that PvE environment. So someone uninterested in PvP will simply leave open if such shenanigans become the norm even out in deep space. That said, I do agree that explorers need to be more prepared defensively, if for no other reasons than that 'winter is coming'. All the actions of the Adder pilots do is kill the ability for non-PvP types to enjoy the truly open PvE playstyle Frontier intended - so someone looking for the latter will look elsewhere than open. I particularly found the comment at one early point in the video 'like taking candy from a candy hating baby' - joking about how easy it was to destroy one ship - quite enlightening about the attitude of such players - deriving pleasure from deliberately setting out to disrupt the gameplay of others (irrespective of ship or loadout used). Sure the game allows it in open, but it says a lot about such players though if that's how they derive pleasure - and some such types wonder why so many aren't interested in playing with them.......

 

[Lane1572]

I think you've good and derailed the thread by now. Perhaps you could share your philosophy on getting your Adder (or whatever you were flying) modded in the first place for PvP? What mods you like to use for clubbing seals, what your process of acquiring them was, etc. I think the problem a lot of people have is that the process of acquiring the mods in the first place are kind of daunting for many of them, and I imagine 90% don't even know what they're facing from a specced out PvP setup.

Fair point.
I had almost all of the materials for everything that went into it just laying around from general playing, no extensive "grind" required. I understand the feeling people have that if they don't have top level everything then they are easy pickings.

 

[Lane1572]

now to finally post on topic and contribute..

In my time at Jaques the best upgrade we encountered to help explorers survive was.......


Fast FSD boot- particular asp had below average shields but would submit and low wake almost instantly. Without the risk of a mass lock he was already waking by the time we even turned to face him and deployed hardpoints. (yes that means you cant use the range boost, but MAN was that guy untouchable)

 

[GluttonyFang]

You (and people thinking alike you) need to stop trying to force a playstyle over other players in the community. It's not gonna happen, and that's exactly why Frontier did 3 separate game mode, so people could enjoy the game the way they want, without grinding weapons or ships to stay alive if they don't want to. (let's not talk about surviving NPC, who are nowhere dangerous when you get a bit of experience)

Open was meant to be the place with the higher chance to INTERACT with other player, not doing pure PVP with them (that's 2 very different things). The proof that this game wasn't designed for PVP is how crime and punishment is handled: purely PVE oriented.

So, sorry to say, but if you're eager of PVP gameplay, you choosed the wrong game, and ruining the day of people who thought naively that Open was a place only full of friendly people isn't going to do anything despite making them play Solo / Private.

Precisely there are three modes of play, Open stands for the possibility of PvP. It's a possibility that people should prepare for or get out of the mode.

Is it possible to meet friendly Cmdrs? Yes, but at the same time there are also hostile Cmdrs. Can crime and punishment improve? It definitely can, but at the same time it isn't impossible to escape with in-game mechanics from undesirable encounters, it's very easy.

The game was designed with player conflict integral to its design as much as PvE and cooperative play.

So if you don't mind, stop marginalizing PvP players out of the game without any good justification other than personal preferences.

 

[jasonbarron]

now to finally post on topic and contribute..

In my time at Jaques the best upgrade we encountered to help explorers survive was.......


Fast FSD boot- particular asp had below average shields but would submit and low wake almost instantly. Without the risk of a mass lock he was already waking by the time we even turned to face him and deployed hardpoints. (yes that means you cant use the range boost, but MAN was that guy untouchable)

Very interesting, Lane. Thanks for sharing that. I never bothered with that upgrade because I always want more range, but I imagine that little tidbit will save me some serious problems when the Thargoids finally start ripping into us.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Except that's NOT what most people uninterested in PvP will do in the first instance. And before you say open play is PvP mode, it's not, it's the same PvE-focused play that solo and private also offer - it's just that in open, the rules of engagement are such that PvP is also permitted anywhere, anytime within that PvE environment. So someone uninterested in PvP will simply leave open if such shenanigans become the norm even out in deep space. That said, I do agree that explorers need to be more prepared defensively, if for no other reasons than that 'winter is coming'. All the actions of the Adder pilots do is kill the ability for non-PvP types to enjoy the truly open PvE playstyle Frontier intended - so someone looking for the latter will look elsewhere than open. I particularly found the comment at one early point in the video 'like taking candy from a candy hating baby' - joking about how easy it was to destroy one ship - quite enlightening about the attitude of such players - deriving pleasure from deliberately setting out to disrupt the gameplay of others (irrespective of ship or loadout used). Sure the game allows it in open, but it says a lot about such players though if that's how they derive pleasure - and some such types wonder why so many aren't interested in playing with them.......

Someone uninterested in PvP doesn't need to leave Open, but if said individual wishes to remain in Open, he or she needs to be at least prepared for PvP encounters.

Player conflict is integral to the design of the game. David Braben's commentary regarding the nature of the game solidifies that stance, if anything. It's just that crime and punishment isn't tuned properly.

 

[Boomer Kay]

The game was designed with player conflict integral to its design as much as PvE and cooperative play.

It's so integral, it can be completely avoided and you miss nothing.
There isn't even a PvP kill vs. Death ratio tracked anywhere (oh, well, in cqc ... what does that tell you? It's one of those basic metrics any PvP game has .. for the epeen).... and that game tracks the kilometers I've traveled in my srv (89 at the moment).

Mr. Braben is a sales person.. he'd probably tell you there's piracy in the game to get you hooked and then forget to add piracy mechanics.

 

[Lane1572]

Very interesting, Lane. Thanks for sharing that. I never bothered with that upgrade because I always want more range, but I imagine that little tidbit will save me some serious problems when the Thargoids finally start ripping into us.

Honestly happy to help and share. The BIGGEST thing in ship design now is to have a vision of what you want it to do well, knowing that in making it good at that you are making it bad at other things. If you are going exclusively for max range, that is 100% fine but it comes at a survivability cost that you need to plan for and be ready with what to do in that situation
1. submit to interdiction
2. IF you have shields 4 'pips' to sys
3. High wake

If you don't like that idea for any reason, you can arrive at a build that allows you the freedom to do whatever does sound good to you. If you want to turn and fight in that situation, build a ship to do that. If you want to just be tough enough to take fire until you make it to the station you can build a ship for that also. It is just a compromise and the better you are at one thing the worse you will be at others (Case in point my Adder had a 23ly jump range haha)

 

[Devari]

It's so integral, it can be completely avoided and you miss nothing.

You miss quite a bit if you aren't playing in Open, namely the possibility of interacting with other CMDRs. I don't care for PVP (and will disengage immediately if someone tries to attack me using the silly OP heat weapons) but I do want to have the possibility of meeting other CMDRs which is already a rather rare occurrence outside of CGs or other events like Tip Offs. I wouldn't say that the ability to interact with other CMDRs is "nothing" and I would rather accept the risk of being attacked and killed by other CMDR for this feature. Then again I'm a skilled pilot who can handle myself in combat, I fly a heavily-armed Python most of the time and even my exploration Asp is fully armed and armored, so I fully expect that I might end up in combat at any time whether it's another CMDR or a high-rank NPC.

 

[the games masta]

Or just play solo?

 

[Godsailsaqueen]

now to finally post on topic and contribute..

In my time at Jaques the best upgrade we encountered to help explorers survive was.......


Fast FSD boot- particular asp had below average shields but would submit and low wake almost instantly. Without the risk of a mass lock he was already waking by the time we even turned to face him and deployed hardpoints. (yes that means you cant use the range boost, but MAN was that guy untouchable)

Wasn't fast FSD boot only supposed to power up your module quicker with power priorities - not your actual fsd spooling sequence? Anyway, I doubt explorers will sacrifice their increased fsd range for now. 40 Ly has become a new norm.

 

[GluttonyFang]

It's so integral, it can be completely avoided and you miss nothing.
There isn't even a PvP kill vs. Death ratio tracked anywhere (oh, well, in cqc ... what does that tell you? It's one of those basic metrics any PvP game has .. for the epeen).... and that game tracks the kilometers I've traveled in my srv (89 at the moment).

Mr. Braben is a sales person.. he'd probably tell you there's piracy in the game to get you hooked and then forget to add piracy mechanics.

Player conflict's integral nature to the game design is Sandro's word, not Braben's.

And in a sandbox, there is no need for something as silly as a KDR.

 

[Boomer Kay]

You miss quite a bit if you aren't playing in Open, namely the possibility of interacting with other CMDRs. I don't care for PVP (and will disengage immediately if someone tries to attack me using the silly OP heat weapons) but I do want to have the possibility of meeting other CMDRs which is already a rather rare occurrence outside of CGs or other events like Tip Offs. I wouldn't say that the ability to interact with other CMDRs is "nothing" and I would rather accept the risk of being attacked and killed by other CMDR for this feature. Then again I'm a skilled pilot who can handle myself in combat, I fly a heavily-armed Python most of the time and even my exploration Asp is fully armed and armored, so I fully expect that I might end up in combat at any time whether it's another CMDR or a high-rank NPC.

Mobius is actually a lot more social than open.
Maybe that lack of "every hollow square could possibly be a dumpty" adds to that.

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Player conflict's integral nature to the game design is Sandro's word, not Braben's.

And in a sandbox, there is no need for something as silly as a KDR.

That's why eve online has entire multi page PvP stats.

(And this was your quote "Player conflict is integral to the design of the game. David Braben's commentary regarding the nature of the game solidifies that stance, if anything. ")

 

[Devari]

Mobius is actually a lot more social than open.
Maybe that lack of "every hollow square could possibly be a dumpty" adds to that.

Mobius is like a private Hipster party where you need to know the secret handshake to get in, the food is all vegan and no one uses harsh language.

That does not fit my idea of the Elite universe.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Mobius is like a private Hipster party where you need to know the secret handshake to get in, the food is all vegan and no one uses harsh language.

That does not fit my idea of the Elite universe.

But it's a very social experience. Which is also the reason I left it.
I either want to fly around all by myself or in my pg with rl friends.
Or hover around a cg station glaring threateningly at other players.. in my hauler.