External View [A definitive discussion]

[Tar Stone]

There's an Isinona video where he's hunting a player with a large bounty. It's gripping, at one point he's hovering in silent running behind a potential target who is docked on a pad at an outpost.

External camera would give the game away in this case.

Still, people just want to make cool videos and get their YouTube subscribers up, eh?

 

[Vasea Azure]

We will be able to test it - people who thinks that debug camera gives the advantage in PVP will be able to wing with someone and try to record the video. Simple. Post your results.

 

[Ceekay]

If the camera position is several metres behind and above the cockpit (like in Freelancer for example) the field of view is huge in comparison to what you see via the cockpit window, because of this you can see targets that would be otherwise outside of the cockpit view and align the gun-sights much faster, on top of that it turns the game/simulation into an arcade shooter and who wants that!

 

[Tarman]

We will be able to test it - people who thinks that debug camera gives the advantage in PVP will be able to wing with someone and try to record the video. Simple. Post your results.

You and your blue-alien rationality. We're humans dammit, we need to flip our beans about something! Even when it's nothing, or even before it's anything. Beans, they need the flipping.

 

[Vasea Azure]

If the camera position is several metres behind and above the cockpit (like in Freelancer for example) the field of view is huge in comparison to what you see via the cockpit window, because of this you can see targets that would be otherwise outside of the cockpit view and align the gun-sights much faster, on top of that it turns the game/simulation into an arcade shooter and who wants that!

there will be no "gun sight" in external debu cam ...

 

[jgm]

There's an Isinona video where he's hunting a player with a large bounty. It's gripping, at one point he's hovering in silent running behind a potential target who is docked on a pad at an outpost.

External camera would give the game away in this case.

Interesting point.

 

[knowles2]

I don't think anyone would have a problem with external through with disable ship but let be honest we all know it going to be hacked so that people have external view and a full enable vessel with in hours of the update, probably. And that where the problem lies.

 

[Ceekay]

there will be no "gun sight" in external debu cam ...

And this is why FD has engineered the camera this way so it's just a bit of voyeurism with no tactical advantage

 

[Sandmann]

It has been discussed to death that any sort of external camera will give players some sort of advantage in PVP.
I`m in a camp that don't agree with that- but thats the other story.

I'm actually coming from a different camp... I've wanted external views from ship mounted cams for ages (left/right/up/down/rear views) but not the 3rd person "vanity drones". This is because I believe that being able to pilot your ship in third person will give a combat advantage over people who choose to remain "immersed" in first person while at the same time killing the feeling that you are actually flying a space ship. Think of any "racing car game", they are always easier to play in 3rd person than 1st, and in my opinion that is the real reason for many of the requests for a third person view, despite protestations that people really just want to take "selfies". On the other hand it's ridiculous to think 33rd century spaceships wouldn't have external hull mounted cameras for manoeuvring when cars, planes, and ships in the 21st century already do, especially when you're trying to avoid taking the paint off the sides, top, or bottom of a T9 or Anaconda while going through the docking port of a space station... of course there would be cameras, sensors, alarms, and so on.

FD's solution is to offer drones that "steal" your ship's controls. This completely negates my first concern, as you can't fly your ship AND the drone at the same time. There's still possibly sneaky things you can do with it, but I don't think they're going to be a huge concern. It however completely fails to meet my second concern... the lack of manoeuvring cams/sensors etc, especially on larger ships, as these vanity drones can't be used for that purpose.

Oh well, there's obviously a bunch of narcissistic, selfie-taking players who can't imagine themselves in a universe where they can't see themselves in the third person, I don't believe that there's that much desire to stop and take scenic snapshots without the cockpit in the way. It's sad that FD have once again bowed to the "lowest common denominator" instead of aiming at trying to be a "thinking man's game", but at least it looks like it'll be implemented in a manner that won't advantage those who make use of it in any real sense. I just hope that the drone isn't built into every ship, but is a separate module that you have to purchase and install at the expense of some other piece of equipment.

I'll be interested to see how it tests in beta.

 

[Zieman]

Oh well, there's obviously a bunch of narcissistic, selfie-taking players who can't imagine themselves in a universe where they can't see themselves in the third person, I don't believe that there's that much desire to stop and take scenic snapshots without the cockpit in the way. It's sad that FD have once again bowed to the "lowest common denominator" instead of aiming at trying to be a "thinking man's game", but at least it looks like it'll be implemented in a manner that won't advantage those who make use of it in any real sense. I just hope that the drone isn't built into every ship, but is a separate module that you have to purchase and install at the expense of some other piece of equipment.

*facepalm*

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Dude we're in space it's not like people are hiding in little cubby holes lol
Us who have a Rift can already look around outside anyway, it's OK, calm down

I'd say we're hiding in little cubby holes because we're in space - there's a vacuum outthere.

Considering the ability to look outside using the rift: I've actually ticketed that in November (ironically told them to not bother if they ever planned to implement third person view - guess this finally answers my ticket).

On a side note I was calm all the time - not sure what tone people read into my post, but I wasn't raging or anything - just disappointed because I really used to like the game and was very enthusiastic about what it might have become. A pity they gave in for a quick cash-grab from the casuals, but maybe it was necessary.

Not a big deal - I've played computer games for 35 years and eventually, I've quit each and every single one of them - it's not my first time. Might even go solo every now and then to float in an ice belt in the rift.

 

[TheEponymousBob]

A pity they gave in for a quick cash-grab from the casuals...

They didn't.

 

[PiLhEaD]

...I believe that being able to pilot your ship in third person will give a combat advantage over people who choose to remain "immersed" in first person while at the same time killing the feeling that you are actually flying a space ship...

You can NOT pilot your ship in the ED camera mode. The ship continues at its current speed and heading, whilst those who like to see their paint jobs, can see them in space. Epic!!!!!

 

[Jack Schitt]

There's an Isinona video where he's hunting a player with a large bounty. It's gripping, at one point he's hovering in silent running behind a potential target who is docked on a pad at an outpost. External camera would give the game away in this case.

Fair point; this may be an event so rare as to be statistically insignificant but it's definitely possible so may need to be addressed. I also wonder whether it would be feasible for one member of a Wing to activate the debug camera and sweep their view around the battlesphere while feeding tactical information to their wingmen like an AWACS. Hell, that doesn't even need Wings; they could do it on TeamSpeak from a non-combat ship that wouldn't even show red on the scanner. But then I guess without the HUD elements all they could do is pinpoint ship locations and possibly types. There'd be no way to ID them without rapidly switching between cockpit view and camera view.

The simplest solution to all potential debug camera advantages would be to limit it to Solo and Group modes like they did with the high-res screenshots, but I guess that would pee off all the folks who will want to do Wing selfies in Open.

Whatever happens it's going to be an interesting week when beta 1.2 drops.

 

[Zelos1983]

If the camera position is several metres behind and above the cockpit (like in Freelancer for example) the field of view is huge in comparison to what you see via the cockpit window, because of this you can see targets that would be otherwise outside of the cockpit view and align the gun-sights much faster, on top of that it turns the game/simulation into an arcade shooter and who wants that!

First, you see all those targets on the radar. Being able to see them visually makes not much of a difference.
Second, it is already an arcade shooter, the flight model is nowhere near simulation level.

Besides that, the external view is for taking screenshots etc., who would use it in combat? You don't see the hud incl. radar, so you'll actually loose the ability to comprehend what's going on. Plus, not everyone plays in Open against other players. That shouldn't be a problem to the rest.

 

[jgm]

You can NOT pilot your ship in the ED camera mode. The ship continues at its current speed and heading, whilst those who like to see their paint jobs, can see them in space. Epic!!!!!

Is it possible to supplement the list of infractionable offences with "making a point which the person they quoted already made"?

Oh yes, and one for multiple exclamation marks as well...

 

[Tar Stone]

Fair point; this may be an event so rare as to be statistically insignificant but it's definitely possible so may need to be addressed.

Well the debug camera will bring nothing to the gameplay, and the Isinona video I mentioned shows that it could take something away.

So there you go.

 

[PiLhEaD]

Is it possible to supplement the list of infractionable offences with "making a point which the person they quoted already made"?

Oh yes, and one for multiple exclamation marks as well...

It was easy to infer from sandman that the ship was still pilotable, I was simply clarifying that you can not.

Sorry if that annoyed you!!!!!!!!!!!

As an aside I belive that both veering off topic and sniping are infringements.

 

[Zieman]

Well the debug camera will bring nothing to the gameplay, and the Isinona video I mentioned shows that it could take something away.

So there you go.

Maybe it doesn't bring anything to your gameplay. Don't assume that for everybody. You know, some people might just want to see how the paintjob they purchased from the store looks like...

 

[Bokugo]

Well the debug camera will bring nothing to the gameplay, and the Isinona video I mentioned shows that it could take something away.

So there you go.

What exactly will it take away again? People that are docked are usually doing something at the station. If they are just using the external camera looking around, they deserve to catch sneaky people. Not to mention what exactly was he gunna do while still docked?