External View [A definitive discussion]
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I'm going to find everyone who complained about this feature in game and take a selfie with them ha ha then post it on instagram
If this somehow compromises your PVP tactics then it's about time y'all got better at the game and manned up!
Or alternatively learn how to use the radar, as that is a far bigger advantage than any external view could possibly be.
Ideas Man
Banned
Exactly!Or alternatively learn how to use the radar, as that is a far bigger advantage than any external view could possibly be.
The people complaining about the PVP consequences of this feature sound like they may not be very good at the game ha ha
Conversely you'd have to prove it was "inordinate" or "excessive" to be an accurate description.
And since mores are generally defined by the society, in which one can buy "selfie sticks" for one's camera and cameras located on phones for better "selfies" as a selling point, it might be a hard argument to make that any photography that includes the artist is "excessive self love"
That's a poor argument... you don't list any other games that "haven't suffered" by having a 3rd person view, nor have they been tested by starting without it, measuring performance, then including it and remeasuring.
I think you're forgetting that many of us backed the game because it IS different, and we're sick of playing the same game over and over with different backdrops.
OK... for a start, I'm not a PvPer, in fact I play in Mobius group, so please don't assume I'm against it because of that. Secondly, serious flight sims don't have combat. Air combat games have combat. Third, elite isn't ONLY a space combat game, it's trying to be a bit of everything... a little bit sim, a little bit trading, and a little bit combat. That's probably a weakness because it can't do any one of these well. However, if you really don't understand why a 3rd person follow cam changes a game, try playing something like MS Flight Sim X or even a console game like any of the Gran Tourismo series ONLY in first person... then try switching it out to third person. It's MUCH easier in third person... and a lot of people DON'T want ED to be "easy" (or at least, not any easier than it already is). Unlike the "Wing Commander" genre, Elite was ALWAYS challenging, with a steep learning curve, and a certain skill level required. It's becoming less and less so now, seemingly with every update.
Well, since it was NEVER intended to be a sci fi studio suite I find it difficult to sympathise too much. You can nwo take external shots and fly bys rather than just in cabin shots... your movie making options have increased exponentially.
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Or alternatively learn how to use the radar, as that is a far bigger advantage than any external view could possibly be.
This one I agree with 100%. The only time an external view is more helpful for combat is against someone in "stealth mode", and it's not like they can stay that way for long.
I've actually proposed the Driver/1c solution myself so often it could be considered spamming in this thread and many more. Unfortunately the duckface crowd prevalent in this thread lacked the attention span and comprehension to consider it.
Once people got used to an instant gratification mindset, it's hard to get it out of their minds.
Or alternatively learn how to use the radar, as that is a far bigger advantage than any external view could possibly be.
If sensors (which appear to be solely based on heat, not radar) wouldn't be completely sub-par compared to eyesight in regards to range, that would make sense. Even in the rifts poor resolution, I can spot ships from far further away than my sensors do at max range - and my eyes are not fooled by silent running.
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Nope, don't have to prove anything there... happy to admit that it being excessive is an entirely personal view and unsupported by the "selfie generation". I bought my gf a selfie stick, but I still find the whole fascination with selfies to be narcissistic. Photography's actually a hobby of mine but I take photos of anything BUT myself (which is probably why I enjoy photography, it's hard for others to demand that you be in front of the camera when you're the photographer). It's also difficult to take a selfie with a DSLR (without messing around with tripods and what not at least).
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Ideas Man
Banned
The 'duckface crowd' are the normal ones, just so you know
Glad we could clear that up.
Btw and FYI, even the original 8-bit Elite had a rear view, even rear weapons. You "just" needed to mirror the controls in your brain to make a good use of it.
Yes I remember that now you mention it... it made fighting in the rear view very challenging (which is what you want really, it's not supposed to be for combat).
They may not be thinking, but fearing. If I'm close enough to use pure visuals for any kind of useful tactical data, then I am close enough to get completely lit up for flying in a straight line with my cam hanging out. Otherwise you'll be so far out of the fight all you can do is tell your wingies that you see a dot that's probably next to their dot. Wait, that's a star. Yeah, that other dot. Wait, that's a scuff on my canopy.
And again, just make the cam toggle with a decent delay (it is a cam and not a quickview mode so np there), and the cam controls syrupy so you can't do quicksnap looking. Great for cinematics, terrible for combat tracking by sight. This is totally doable.
Ideas Man
Banned
Agreed.
There needs to be a shift in mindset here guys, no one cares about you in PVP, if an external camera is scaring you you probably are bad at it anyway and would die regardless.
Let the 'duckface crowd' have their good times and stop being so starchy, you're coming across really badly here
If there was a lag (1-2 seconds should be enough) and slow (syrupy, to use your term) pan/tilt/traverse/rotate controls that would probably kill it completely for combat, while still allowing folks like Nomadski to use it for his travelogues. At the end of the day though that delay would take up extra processing which may be something FD don't want to force on others. I'd say they've just taken the simplest, most direct route to allowing it without compromising gameplay.
On these forums, yes.
Your point being?
Normality is suboptimal by definition.
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Ideas Man
Banned
It's moaning for moaning sake I think, I mean, COME ON GUYS - we are talking about the ability to take pictures of your spaceship here, not a God Mode button lol, get over it and cheer up a bit
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That's sucks for you man, there are millions of really cool normal people out there
But this way you could actually fight while escaping, if your brain was flexible enough to achieve that 'mirror trick'. Some aspect where the grandfather of all Elite versions was actually slightly ahead.
Yeah but they went to a lot of trouble and fought a lot of resistance to nerf FA Off because the whole "flying backwards while fighting" was too effective and not arcade-ey enough... which is probably why they're avoiding recreating the rear view. They have said up front that they WANT "airplanes in space".. with "aerial dogfight tactics" rather than "newtonian space combat tactics".
I just wish for the beta at least, an unnerfed camera was available. that way all the 'combat is dooooomed' lot would get to try it, and in about 10 seconds (or less if the other player has decent weapons) they would understand why DCS, Sturmovik or ARMA pilots don't fly about in combat scenarios in third person, unless they want to be dead.
Simple activation delay is all that's needed, not a satellite-feed type delay. With my idea the cam would both power and depower on a delay, so you can't just pop in and out for a peek either at the HUD or your surroundings, but have to wait for it either way. No processing required, just waiting. Which is pretty much death in combat. Reporters and duckfacers, as it's been put, could care less about an activation time.
O= (duckface forevar!)
But waaay more for the PRESS angle. "Don't light up my ship, Ima make you FAMOUS, man."
Well don't say it is an accurate definitions then, by a dictionary, if you are going to decline to show it actually meets the definition.
Arguments can be valid without being sound.
...and thereby help FD keep the marketing budget down, yes.
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