External View [A definitive discussion]

[Dejay]

I don't think there is any technical problem for a simple function. But I guess it gets more complicated if you try to make it more realistic. Of course camera drones really could and should be part of the gameplay and missions, like spying on military installations, troop deployments or the old snapping pictures of a inconspicuous meeting in deep space. Not sure how to be stealthy in supercruise though haha.

Not rendering the ship on screenshots would be cool too. One problem he mentioned is that you have thruster firing all over the ship and those particles might not be so easily "turned off" after they leave the ship. So you might end up with strange disembodied particle effects on your screenshot.

 

[NeilF]

The only technical issues might be inside stations, clipping and all. Easily fixed by preventing use of the external cameras inside the no-fire zone, especially if they decided to go with the camera-drones solution. Not to mention that they could give us free rotation camera while docked and in the outfitting scren. Or just add a "showroom" camera. But no, right? That would break immersion, right? What pilot would EVER get out of his/her ship to look at it from the outside while docked in the hangar. That's just impossible, not included in the vision, and technically unfeasible.

Every other game manages it somehow...

 

[Deyn]

Even "real" hardcore simulations like DCS World and Falcon 4.0 manage that quite well... by the way, I never ever heard a complaint about "cheating" in dogfight with external camera, in DCS World MP sessions... the moment you go outside your aircraft, you almost ever lost situational awareness and thus the fight.
People need to realise this is not a FPS where you "look around corners" (as in CoD, Battlefield, etc. you don't have a scanner, either)
That video proof was hillarious, as you can easily look at the scanner, to see who is behind the "asteroid" or outside the station... if you go stealth you have no shields, well, hmmm, I wouldn't risk going in "guns blazing" with no shields, but that's just me...

In the end it seems to be a matter of keeping face, as the arguments against external beauty cam are somewhat shallow.

I like to cite the credo of the game, from the Game details page :

"Play your way"


My way would be WITH external camera, so give me an option to do so?

 

[Deyn]

Once we can walk around outside our ships and EVA this will all be solved. I don't see any reason for FD to implement a third-person camera when they've stated that you'll be able to walk/float around outside your ship in an upcoming expansion. I think doing it that way is by far the best for Elite. Star Citizen already lost sooo much by allowing third-person.

First, for the hundredth of times: WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT 3rd Person View! It is EXTERNAL CAMERA... so no HUD or any useful data/targeting etc. !!!

And just to be able to go EVA... hmmm, let's see: "I'm a Pirate, arr arrh! I found another dumba.. floating around in space with his unprotected ship, LOL !"
No, that is not the solution to the self induced problem of missing external beauty views... the simple solution would be to just bind the existing "external view" the Devs use for media production and screenshots, to a goddamn key and be done with it!
If they really fear that people are at a disadvantage then limit it to SOLO play for gods sake, but do something about it quick, as I guess the sales for Skins like the "Hotrod" Cobra etc. will grow dramatically, once we can actually see them without an obstructing "Interface" (How immersive that is , by the way!)

These in game extras, should pay for the server costs and future development in parts, right?

 

[letoras]

That's my only criticism... would make the skins have a purpose.

And also make the game more pleasant.

 

[lionwing]

Wow....big topic!

Let's understand we are playing at being in space on a computer in a bedroom, dining room...essentially not actually in outer space!

A external view is as likely to break the immersion factor as much as reaching for a can of coke!

External view...come on...let's fix this!

 

[Kayweg]

Yes to external view in outfitting screen, similar to WT, WoT......aka "ship spinning"

 

[TriumphANT]

The answer is obviously mirrors on the side of Coriolis space stations.

 

[Jon Graham]

I want an external camera. Now!

 

[Colonel Kenney]

Same here.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever there should not be an external camera. It wouldn't help at all in combat. The original games had it .. every other game has it.

Just make it external with no indicators at all so it is purely for cosmetic and enjoyment reasons.

 

[CMDR Beardie.D]

Personally i think an external view would ruin the immersion, how about the ability to step out side your ship, do a space walk, then you can look at your ship from any angle!

This could also fit in with repairing your own ship whilst in space. Im sure this wouldnt be hard to implement when Frontier have already told us they will be doing first person for walking around your ship and the starports.

I feel this solution would be realistic, immersive and prevents commanders from using external views for combat, which quite frankly is unfair. Well if there feeling brave they could step out side in a fight!

This could also lead to getting into a friends ship when your own ship has had it, leaving the old ship to rot in space or be recovered by others. The friend could then take you to a starport that holds one of your other ships. Again a more immersive experience than self destructing and appearing in a starport at the insurance screen!

 

[WeirdWizard]

I like to cite the credo of the game, from the Game details page :

"Play your way"


My way would be WITH external camera, so give me an option to do so?

Quoted for truth, my way also would be WITH external cameras. ED could do with a big injection of way to play variety and options so each can enjoy as they want to and external cameras would be an excellent first step.

 

[Colonel Kenney]

Personally i think an external view would ruin the immersion,

Then don't use it.

 

[Deyn]

Personally i think an external view would ruin the immersion, how about the ability to step out side your ship, do a space walk, then you can look at your ship from any angle!

This could also fit in with repairing your own ship whilst in space. Im sure this wouldnt be hard to implement when Frontier have already told us they will be doing first person for walking around your ship and the starports.

I feel this solution would be realistic, immersive and prevents commanders from using external views for combat, which quite frankly is unfair. Well if there feeling brave they could step out side in a fight!

This could also lead to getting into a friends ship when your own ship has had it, leaving the old ship to rot in space or be recovered by others. The friend could then take you to a starport that holds one of your other ships. Again a more immersive experience than self destructing and appearing in a starport at the insurance screen!

I'll simply quote my answer to a similar oppinion one page back in this thread:
"First, for the hundredth of times: WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT 3rd Person View! It is EXTERNAL CAMERA... so no HUD or any useful data/targeting etc. !!!

And just to be able to go EVA... hmmm, let's see: "I'm a Pirate, arr arrh! I found another dumba.. floating around in space with his unprotected ship, LOL !"
No, that is not the solution to the self induced problem of missing external beauty views... the simple solution would be to just bind the existing "external view" the Devs use for media production and screenshots, to a goddamn key and be done with it!
If they really fear that people are at a disadvantage then limit it to SOLO play for gods sake, but do something about it quick, as I guess the sales for Skins like the "Hotrod" Cobra etc. will grow dramatically, once we can actually see them without an obstructing "Interface" (How immersive that is , by the way!)

These in game extras, should pay for the server costs and future development in parts, right?"

Again, it is bordering on the hillarious to see a simple external camera as "unfair", while people fly with mouse and keyboard when others have a Warthog HOTAS, Rudder Pedals, TrackIR and Voice Attack!

And from decades of Flight sim experience: External view in Combat will immediately ruin your situational awareness and most of the times get you killed... No, this is not ArmA-in-space where you can hide behind a corner of a building!

Just look at the scanner...

 

[Colonel Kenney]

Pretty much. The experience is the main issue and the reason we did it. The fact it has implications for multiplayer (those implications being that everything is conveniently fair) is a bonus really.

Ugh... make external use unavailable for people running cool in the area or something similar... there is no reason for there not to be external side views or rear views or external cameras.

 

[deathm00n]

I like to cite the credo of the game, from the Game details page :

"Play your way"


My way would be WITH external camera, so give me an option to do so?

I want to fly a dolphin equiped with a rocket launcher attached to it, with lasers in the eyes, while Queen Elisabeth is sitting passenger singing the macarena. But I don't think play your way means I can force the developers to do what I want.

EDIT: Being serious about it tough, I want to have a external BUT only for ship visualization and screenshots, I think the controls should be disabled while in this mode.

 

[Deyn]

Originally Posted by Mike Evans
Pretty much. The experience is the main issue and the reason we did it. The fact it has implications for multiplayer (those implications being that everything is conveniently fair) is a bonus really.

Well, if they worry about the "experience" they should start to fix the "Flight assist off" conveniently limiting maximum speed, the "magically" recovery after Flight Assist on, the floating particles in space, the sound of explosions travelling through the void etc.
If it is they care about enjoying the game, why did EVERY SINGLE trailer and newsletter happen to have these external view sequences and screenshots? Because it is cool as hell and it is just so great to watch your ship flying through space, alongside a station etc.? Or did Frontier Dev just enjoy to show their "superiority" as producers, the elite feeling of having access to something all the belittled Commanders will envy them?

And again, if you are soooooo concerned about everybody playing fair, SOLO mode!!! Simple! No NPC can be cheated, as he already knows exactly where you are and what you do if necessary, and best of all, he won't even complain!

 

[CMDR Beardie.D]

I'll simply quote my answer to a similar oppinion one page back in this thread:
"First, for the hundredth of times: WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT 3rd Person View! It is EXTERNAL CAMERA... so no HUD or any useful data/targeting etc. !!!

And just to be able to go EVA... hmmm, let's see: "I'm a Pirate, arr arrh! I found another dumba.. floating around in space with his unprotected ship, LOL !"
No, that is not the solution to the self induced problem of missing external beauty views... the simple solution would be to just bind the existing "external view" the Devs use for media production and screenshots, to a goddamn key and be done with it!
If they really fear that people are at a disadvantage then limit it to SOLO play for gods sake, but do something about it quick, as I guess the sales for Skins like the "Hotrod" Cobra etc. will grow dramatically, once we can actually see them without an obstructing "Interface" (How immersive that is , by the way!)

These in game extras, should pay for the server costs and future development in parts, right?"

Again, it is bordering on the hillarious to see a simple external camera as "unfair", while people fly with mouse and keyboard when others have a Warthog HOTAS, Rudder Pedals, TrackIR and Voice Attack!

And from decades of Flight sim experience: External view in Combat will immediately ruin your situational awareness and most of the times get you killed... No, this is not ArmA-in-space where you can hide behind a corner of a building!

Just look at the scanner...

Well thanks for telling me im wrong!!!

I thought i put the words personally i think!

Also where did i say 3rd person?

Well i still stand by my personal opinion that EVA would be great for many many reasons, including external beauty shots. Also whats wrong with finding someone floating in space, in 3300 if this type of space activity is about then there is likely to be bodies alive and or dead floating in space, although highly unlikely you will come across any in your lifetime due to the size of space.

Just a reminder to all who feel there view is correct, its not! its a view so please dont impose it on others as if it were!

 

[WeirdWizard]

Pretty much. The experience is the main issue and the reason we did it. The fact it has implications for multiplayer (those implications being that everything is conveniently fair) is a bonus really.

Surely what experience a player wants is best decided by that player. If as a designer you can offer a player the option of experiencing the game in different ways surely that is better than stating there is only one way, our way.

Let me give an example. Some people like to play games using their keyboard and mouse others a joypad and still others a joystick. Should the designers decide there should only be one type of input because that is the way they personally prefer to play the game or should they provide the option for players to play using which ever input they most enjoy?

There are things that a designer absolutely has to set in stone for gameplay or mechanical reasons, but forcing first person in what amounts to a flightsim/RPG isn't one of them. It seems to be more of an artistic stand. A principle of the thing.... in short its the "Vision". Well are you making a game for people to enjoy or are you making a piece of interactive art? If its a game then please do me the courtesy of letting me decide if being bolted into the cockpit is the best experience or not.

 

[alphaa]

Never getting a look at your ship with paint scheme you paid for is an immersion breaker, imho

exactly, talk about bad marketing decisions, I would buy paint schemes if I could see them. but whats the point.
why they cannot just make external view not available in combat mode is beyond a stupid choice all the way around.

they're really shooting themselves in the foot on this one. I love the game, but this will cost them many sales and isn't that what its really all about ?