External View [A definitive discussion]

[Kyle_Brennan]

No problem for immersion. But "vast majority"?

And to all those that say it 'breaks immersion' - piffle! Don't use the feature if you think so - just don't hobble the vast majority of players who DO want it.

Bingo. Why does it break my immersion if someone else occasionally uses it for "selfies"?

But asking for it in the name of the "majority" is kind of problematic really (even though Genar may be right in this case). Who can actually tell how many players want a certain feature, or how badly they want it? Forum contributions are a very rough guess at best, they are in no way representative of the entire player base. In addition we know from pretty much every other field that angry/unhappy minorities tend to be disproportionally loud. Not quite sure how FD actually handles input from the community, but my guess is "with a bucket of salt". ;-)

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Note: Got overtaken by a few posts while typing, apologies for any redundancy.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Added to main thread on external views.

 

[Shads]

look i want a external view this rubbish about drones needs to go away a simple external view will add massivley to the game the graphics engine deserves it! but think of the option u could customise your paint job and see it from all angles just dont give the player a hud or weapon control whilst in that view very simple and easy to do

F.F.S they got an external view of the moon landing im sure that didnt spoil the immersion for the crews

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and wheres you source for the opposite

didn't claim to have one. You're the one that seems to be so sure of your facts. But just from the pole it would suggest there is no majority

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Where is your source for "vast majority"?

Where is your source that a vast majority DON'T want this feature?

Where is the logic in not having an external view but you sell paint jobs and people can't even admire them but for some extremely limited external view in the outfitting screen?

In fact - it's kind of laughable don't you think to try and gain money by selling paint jobs and not provide an external view. That's a whole heap of Derp in itself.

Don't use logic, a select few don't like logic on this forum and you will get burned.

Indeed. Already had one 'bite'

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Bingo. Why does it break my immersion if someone else occasionally uses it for "selfies"?

But asking for it in the name of the "majority" is kind of problematic really (even though Genar may be right in this case). Who can actually tell how many players want a certain feature, or how badly they want it? Forum contributions are a very rough guess at best, they are in no way representative of the entire player base. In addition we know from pretty much every other field that angry/unhappy minorities tend to be disproportionally loud. Not quite sure how FD actually handles input from the community, but my guess is "with a bucket of salt". ;-)

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Note: Got overtaken by a few posts while typing, apologies for any redundancy.

You make a good point about the majority thing - even if there isn't a majority of people who want external views (but I think there is even though I couldn't prove it), it's laughable for FDEV to sell paint jobs when the purchaser can't see what they've paid for except for silly static camera views inside a station during outfitting. Laughable.


Edit: here'a a breakdown of the arguments I've seen against the idea:

'Breaks immersion' is laughable - don't use it if it breaks your precious immersion.

'Gives an advantage in battle' - piffle! Disable weapons and flight control during external view. BOOM goes that non-argument. The other player ALSO has that facility - BOOM there goes that argument a second time.

'You can't see your car in external view in real life' - dude, this is a game fer goodness sake, not real life - BOOM another argument gets blown out of the sky.

 

[NeilF]

I was talking to a friend last night, and he commented how when he bought a Lakon 7 he realised how odd it was the first time he landed because it docked so high up. At which point we both agreed how useful it would be to be able to see your ship landing from an external viewpoint to get an idea of what is actually going on as regards your ships true position and where it's landing gear is, and how low down it is etc.

 

[Brad Avidro]

You can't see the paint job on your car when your driving, apart from what you see out of the windows. However you can see it when your parked and able to walk around it, when they implement getting out of your ship and walking round you will be able to do this.

You will then be able to see your ship in all it's glory, and whilst flying others will be able to see it, then you can be proud of your pimped up ship.

I know a few are saying the paint job is pointless because no one gets to see it, but they are wrong, I got a text chat the other day from a player who simply said 'cool paint job', I just replied 'thanks', and even though it was from the limited range we have access to at the moment it felt good.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I was talking to a friend last night, and he commented how when he bought a Lakon 7 he realised how odd it was the first time he landed because it docked so high up. At which point we both agreed how useful it would be to be able to see your ship landing from an external viewpoint to get an idea of what is actually going on as regards your ships true position and where it's landing gear is, and how low down it is etc.

I've advocated for external view but disabling weapon and flight control whilst in it - perhaps flight control could be enabled when you're at the landing pad "minigame" - i.e. when the virtual landing pad shows up in the HUD - and in external view.

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You can't see the paint job on your car when your driving, apart from what you see out of the windows. However you can see it when your parked and able to walk around it, when they implement getting out of your ship and walking round you will be able to do this.

You will then be able to see your ship in all it's glory, and whilst flying others will be able to see it, then you can be proud of your pimped up ship.

I know a few are saying the paint job is pointless because no one gets to see it, but they are wrong, I got a text chat the other day from a player who simply said 'cool paint job', I just replied 'thanks', and even though it was from the limited range we have access to at the moment it felt good.

Look, that argument is simply irrelevant - you're talking about real life, and this is a game. If you're worried about immersion, simply don't use it. Again, the 'you can't see your car from outside' argument is basically an immersion argument. End of.

 

[Shads]

Where is your source that a vast majority DON'T want this feature?

Well I never claimed to have one but since you ask. 206 in favour. 325 against.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Well I never claimed to have one but since you ask. 206 in favour. 325 against.

Very clever. But in a first past the post method of counting, Yes wins. Two can play at that game

 

[NeilF]

I've advocated for external view but disabling weapon and flight control whilst in it - perhaps flight control could be enabled when you're at the landing pad "minigame" - i.e. when the virtual landing pad shows up in the HUD - and in external view.

Understood, but personally I'd like a single consistent solution that allows an external view across the board. I'm sure a couple of straight forward nerfs/limitations could give us a useful external view while it not being used for an "advantage" (eg: during combat).

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Understood, but personally I'd like a single consistent solution that allows an external view across the board. I'm sure a couple of straight forward nerfs/limitations could give us a useful external view while it not being used for an "advantage" (eg: during combat).

And what I propose would do that, would it not? Disable weapons and flight control during external view, but enable flight control in external view when landing at a pad?

I reckon that isn't particularly complicated to achieve. The game client knows you're about to land otherwise it couldn't switch to the landing mode on the HUD, so programmatically, enabling flight control at that point is basically flipping a variable value.

 

[jgm]

Very clever. But in a first past the post method of counting, Yes wins. Two can play at that game

Sorry but that's an awful response. More "no" votes than "yes" votes, the breakdown is purely for the purposes of attempting to obtain more information about why.

And the argument of "if you don't want it don't use it" is a hybrid of a strawmen and a dead horse (draw your own GIF). Any work that the devs do on external views is work they are not doing on other features I would prefer to have in-game. There are enough suggestions on this board to keep the devs busy for years and not improve my gameplay experience one jot. The only way that I can express that I would rather the devs not work on this feature, for example, is to say "I don't want it". It's a very different response to "I wouldn't use it but implement it anyway".

 

[micky1up]

maybe even if you could do a full inspection of the exterior in the hanger with combat damage shown and the ability to paint your ship from the hanger that would add to the immersion

 

[Shads]

maybe even if you could do a full inspection of the exterior in the hanger with combat damage shown and the ability to paint your ship from the hanger that would add to the immersion

No that would be the same as EvE and we can't go having anything from EvE

 

[Vasea Azure]

any, any kind of external view would be nice - hey give me possibility to see the real ship in shop window - not he hologram - and I will be happy at this point.

 

[micky1up]

didn't claim to have one. You're the one that seems to be so sure of your facts. But just from the pole it would suggest there is no majority

that assuming everyone comes onto the forum to vote how many people voted and how many players are there tells you the sample taken prooves nothing


as inthe scottish referendum the day before a sample vote put the yes vote winning by a large margin and we all know how that turned out a no vote won by a 10% margin

 

[Jerakeen]

I'm not bothered about being able to play with an external view but wouldn't it be lovely to have a replay that can be saved like most driving games do? Manys the time I've had a really enjoyable combat and wished that I could watch it again from an external perspective and share it with my friends.

 

[Gorgonaut]

Personally, I'd like a little camera drone.
Of course, the ship would be inoperable while controlling the drone.

the reason why I consider the drone to be the best solution is as follows:

-it would be "in-fiction". There's no conflict in supposing a universe in which spaceships exist does not have small, remote controlled camera drones. Thus, this "immersion" so many keep talking about is preserved.
-there's no immediate need to model and animate the drone, as it would offer first person view from within. No use looking at the drone with another, smaller drone
-while piloting the drone, we could do all sorts of niceties- not only looking at the ship, but compose photos in asteroid fields, pictures of planets and stars, and so on. Perhaps, if the drone strays too far from the ship, we lose contact.
The drones might be treated as munitions in a separate module? Thus, you can lose a drone, and thus have to treat it with care. Those that don't want this, don't have to buy the module.

I really fail to see any negative aspects with this solution.

 

[Shads]

that assuming everyone comes onto the forum to vote how many people voted and how many players are there tells you the sample taken prooves nothing


as inthe scottish referendum the day before a sample vote put the yes vote winning by a large margin and we all know how that turned out a no vote won by a 10% margin

Right so by your own admition there is no majority