External View [A definitive discussion]

An External View yes or no, Multiple choice

  • Yes: an External View for Combat

    Votes: 28 8.8%
  • No: This will break immersion fo me

    Votes: 117 36.6%
  • Yes: I want to know from where I am being attacked from

    Votes: 16 5.0%
  • No: the Scanner is all you need.

    Votes: 103 32.2%
  • Yes: a Simple external ship viewer None Combat

    Votes: 161 50.3%
  • No: Keep everything within the ship

    Votes: 105 32.8%

  • Total voters
    320
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... I don't get it. What's the problem with this? A lot of ridiculous over analysis here. It won't effect combat. It doesn't need to be complicated.

Well initially people thought they were going to be stealth ninjas in a PvP universe of endless fighting.

When the early betas showed that wasn't the case, then it just became a screaming match of 'It is a design decision, how dare you question it!!'

....now that Frontier have announced the obvious ability to as people have asked, we can all move on.


...a lot of this could be avoided if Frontier would just put some sort of vague roadmap up of what they have planned and vaguely when. The idea that this shouldn't be done because then people will rage if some vague deadline is missed is just more forum gibberish here.
They can easily avoid that by posting long range estimates a long way further out then their internal finish dates.
 
Dev Mode Camera and external views discussion

FDev announced they'll unlock the dev mode 3rd person cameras in 1.2 for screenshot use which is great however I'm beginning to wonder why exactly they won't give us a usuable 3rd person view camera.

They claim they don't want anyone to have an advantage by using external views during dogfights but if everyone has use of it how does anyone get an advantage?

We have cars with cameras facing every direction under the sun, we even have cars with lidar and radar tech now, and its 2015. You seriously telling me in 3015 while people are flying huge spacecraft no one is gonna think about adding cameras to see those hard to reach places.
 
FDev announced they'll unlock the dev mode 3rd person cameras in 1.2 for screenshot use which is great however I'm beginning to wonder why exactly they won't give us a usuable 3rd person view camera.

They claim they don't want anyone to have an advantage by using external views during dogfights but if everyone has use of it how does anyone get an advantage?

We have cars with cameras facing every direction under the sun, we even have cars with lidar and radar tech now, and its 2015. You seriously telling me in 3015 while people are flying huge spacecraft no one is gonna think about adding cameras to see those hard to reach places.

Let's see what the "debug camera" offers first? It could well be it offers most people most of what they're after? I'm sure a few requests/suggestions will come afterwards, but let's see what we have first of all?
 
Let's see what the "debug camera" offers first? It could well be it offers most people most of what they're after? I'm sure a few requests/suggestions will come afterwards, but let's see what we have first of all?

What kind of internet game forum person are you? This is far too rational an idea. "Wait and see how it works first". Crazytalk!
 
Let's see what the "debug camera" offers first? It could well be it offers most people most of what they're after? I'm sure a few requests/suggestions will come afterwards, but let's see what we have first of all?
Correct! It seems they listened and gave us the Camera view they used for their own Videos and Screenshots... basically what most people asked for. Now let's see how far out you can move the cam, if you can take nice screens, make videos, enjoy the skins, the scenery etc.

If we run into really big issues, we can start ranting,a gain, but to "anticipate how bad it will be" and rant "in advance" is, hmm, weird at least!?
 
Yes it's all I've done since logged into the beta..it's stunning just looking at my Asp near a station, all the detail and don't think it will be of any use in combat as the ship acceleration controls are used to zoom the camera in and out, even bound keys for full stop just stop the camera movement. Doubt the people whom thought it effect combat have anything to worry about.

Takes little practice too getting used to how to move the view around.
 
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Yes it's all I've done since logged into the beta..it's stunning just looking at my Asp near a station, all the detail and don't think it will be of any use in combat as the ship acceleration controls are used to zoom the camera in and out, even bound keys for full stop just stop the camera movement. Doubt the people whom thought it effect combat have anything to worry about.

Takes little practice too getting used to how to move the view around.

How quick to get a cockpit/hudless screenshot view/position?
 
"view the galaxy through the pilot eyes" what kind of a pilot am I if I can't see or tell what I`m flying?
Now I can. Now I can immerse myself because I know how my ship looks like.
Thank you so so much FD for making the game even better with this simple feature.

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I oblige you all naysayers to go an make a reasonable video on how this wonderful feature gives you advantage in combat. Now you can actually prove it. So please go and do that.
 
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You have to click a pop-up window to access the 3d view, takes few seconds to display the pop-up then you click ok and it shows view ahead of the ship. Also seems can only move the camera short distance from the ship, maybe the length of Asp though guess will scale to the type of ship flying
 
I oblige you all naysayers to go an make a reasonable video on how this wonderful feature gives you advantage in combat. Now you can actually prove it. So please go and do that.

I don't think anyone was saying that a limited external camera, in the way it has been implemented, would provide combat advantages (although there's bound to be some clever player out there that works out a way to get some kind of advantage from it vs not using it). I think the fact that some folks are already asking FD for more features and full ship control whilst in external view proves that the slippery slope argument has some merit to it.

Also, I fail to see how it effects the gameplay in any positive way, and given the repeated pleas of "more content" (usually from people who cannot describe what "content" actually means, just that this game ain't got it), wasting any time/resources on stuff that doesn't affect gameplay seems like a waste, to me.

Anyway, the Elite: Instagram brigade all seem to be happy. I'm sure the skins are flying off the virtual shelves. Frontier have certainly got their duck(face)s in a row there. Good job devs, I suppose.

Still think the drone mechanic had a lot going for it, and would have contributed to gameplay in a positive way. The prototypical state of a few aspects of gameplay and the lack of much refinement of anything other than combat since launch suggest that they aren't in a hurry to do that stuff yet, preferring to add other stuff instead. The clumsily-leaked glimpses of the deathmatch/arena commander gameplay (possibly due in 1.3?) suggests that FD are under the impression that their future earnings are tied to pretty pew-pew, and who knows? They may be right.
 
Armour said:
Still think the drone mechanic had a lot going for it, and would have contributed to gameplay in a positive way.

Well, you could regard the current implementation as a step on the way. Those cam drones are still viable, y'know.

Armoury said:
I think the fact that some folks are already asking FD for more features and full ship control whilst in external view proves that the slippery slope argument has some merit to it.

But in the end, it's FD and FD alone who make the final choices. Look at the thread about padlock view - in earlier Q&As FD already made a statement of having no intention to implement that. However, what they did do was to include some improvements to headlook control for those without trackers out there.
I'm baffled about some of the attitudes of some people on this forum - and the "suggestions" section in particular - who seem to take the people at FD as total incompetents. In far too many suggestion threads you find at least one instance of someone replying to an idea with "That's too hard to do". In this very thread you find countless examples of witlessly snarky statements to that effect, which basically say "FD can't do this, so don't even look at it!".
I find that to be a very destructive demeanor and negates the purpose of the suggestions section of a game's forum.

Only FD know, what they can and cannot do.
Only FD meets the final decision over a feature being implemented or not.

For those reasons I prefer to talk about the "How" and "Why" of a suggestion over the "If". I'm confident that whenever FD sees a suggestion made in this part of the forum which they like, it'll go on a list and will be looked at. FD did see that headlook needs improvement from the discussions around padlock views. And they did react to that.

In mine eyes, those posters throwing one-liners into a thread to yell "NO!" at people are basically spammers. Oh, and to all those out there who like to backhandedly insult people with their powers of "Famous British Snark" - it doesn't really work in written form and without the deadpan mimics to go along with it; in here, it just makes you look like passive-aggressive pricks. :p
 
I think that some of the people who say "that's too hard to do" about certain feature suggestions are actually giving some of those features more thought than the people who proposed them in the first place. Some things are impossible (or at the very least impractical from an administrative or gameplay perspective) with the architecture the game uses, and no amount of namecalling will make that fact change. (I tend to give my suggestions a fair bit of consideration on that front, so I think they are all doable).

The arguments you get from some of those people that get called out remind me of the data compression mailing lists and forums I frequented in the past, where you would often get posts with dumb ideas like "why not just compress the compressed data again?", as if you can just keep feeding a giant file through some magic algorithm repeatedly until it's 1 bit long. You can imagine that the responses were suitably "snarky", and the original posters tended to either hurl insults or quietly disappear, shamefaced. Anyone can suggest anything, but it helps to have a bit of knowledge about what is practical from a technical perspective and what isn't.

As for the "this is Elite, not Game A" responses, There's good reason for keeping focus rather than trying to be all things to all people. Perhaps there's room for Elite: Tycoon, Elite: Space Marine, Elite: Survivalist, Elite: Gearhead, and all the other games that people want to play within the bounds of Elite: Dangerous. I think that Frontier would need a cast of thousands to even attempt keep everyone satisfied, and seeing as you can never satisfy gamers, it would be a massive waste of time and money. Far better that the devs concentrate on making the game that they want to play, because it turns out that the game they want to play is also the game that a lot of others want to play too, and most of them probably don't even know this forum exists because they're playing the game.
 
I like the idea of being able to take a shot of my ship cruising past Uranus... ;) or in the foreground of a neutron star but don't want the ability to fly in "3rd person".

Its a game all said and done, and a very pretty one... So let us show off our paint jobs :)
 
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