Fact's New Theory of Hatching

Ok, here's my new theory - shoot me down!

"The dot shows where actions have indicated the system should go. If the dot moves off NONE then you must move the dot PAST the hatched area to get the state change"

That's it:)

Examples (all from one system):



We start off in NONE and start doing actions to reduce ECONOMY. The dot is in NONE, so no hatching






The dot enters BUST, and the whole section gets hatched. (Compare this with FAMINE later). We need to get the dot past the hatching for the state change to happen.






In this case we still haven't got BUST, we still are not past the hatching - but the hatching shows that BUST is the state we will get if we continue.






Now we are in FAMINE, but BUST has not happened - but BUST went Pending as we moved past the hatching.





After a day pending the BUST went active, so now the FAMINE area is hatched to show where we need to move the dot. Note that not the entire area has been hatched, so you don't need to get all the way. (I seem to recall the same one the positive side).





In the FAMINE area you only need to move the dot past the hatching (so - not the whole section) for the FAMINE to start. (Hopefully soon :) )





This makes less sense - the dot moves past the red-yellow hatched area, so that hatching vanishes. FAMINE goes pending (good), but why has the state gone to NONE and BUST gone hatched? That breaks my theory, as the hatching shouls only show if there is a state change coming up.






Ok, FAMINE went active, hatching gone again. But at least the Famine happened :)

It looks like there is a (small) bug in that the BUST was lost while FAMINE was pending, I raised a bug.




Ok, I decided to push the faction back to NONE. But running positive missions gave the faction INF, so they ended up in a WAR with another faction.



So the WAR cancels the FAMINE, the system acts like Economy is in NONE, so BUST goes pending, the FAMINE has gone despite the dot still being in FAMINE. Huh. Note though that the BUST acted as expected - the dot was past the hatching, so the BUST went pending - theory intact.




And the next day the BUST goes active (so you can get BUST with WAR, but not FAMINE?). Then again it looks like I can move the dot and get the FAMINE back. That is what I will try next :)






This also explains the significance of the sections being different lengths in different systems - a larger NONE section makes it potentially easier to get the other states (as their sections are smaller).

I like this theory as it's pretty straightforward. It's also a nice way to show you what will happen, rather than filling a hidden bucket of Biowaste until someone shouts OUTBREAK!. Still lots to do to prove if it actually ... is true :) Also need to look at what the hatching does as you come back towards NONE, etc etc. Also lots to do with how fast you can move the dot - it appears capped, and to change in the different sections. And ofc this is the point someone links an earlier thread with the same theory even better explained :D
 
Last edited:
It does seem to be an explanation of it, even if it doesn't really make a great deal of sense. But the lack of any actual link between the colour of the bar and the colour of the state explains why everyone was scratching their heads so much.

Would be interesting what that looks like when returning from Famine to None.
 
Would be interesting what that looks like when returning from Famine to None.
Yes, for example this system:



I guess if it was in FAMINE then it might make sense - if it's saying you need to get back to NONE in order to enter BUST. Though if my theory was correct then it shouldn't show the hatching until the marker re-entered BUST, dammit.

I'm pretty sure the faction was in NONE, not FAMINE. Though that could be that FAMINE is broken.... which seems to be the case at the moment. Lovely.
 
This is what I saw driving a system into lockdown. In essence its a mini timeline that takes into account pending time too.
 
Interesting.

It would be a good way to stop minor back-and-forths of a slider around a boundary constantly changing the state.
But surely it makes far more sense and would be a lot clearer if you just had to get to 50% bust before bust triggered.
Have to get to the famine area to trigger bust is not intuitive.

Whoever designed 3.3 really didn't think about any of it for longer than it took to write the idea down.
 
Looks like the BGS is probably bugged re: Famines - I got the Famine pending as expected (after moving the dot past the hatching), but as well as the hoped for Famine Pending it also shows I lost my BUST, and now that is hatched:



This might explain some of the other systems I found (see above) with the dot in FAMINE but with BUST hatched - I would have expected the BUST to stay active until the FAMINE kicks in. Tomorrow :)
 
Last edited:
Ok, here's my new theory - shoot me down!

"The dot shows where actions have indicated the system should go. If the dot moves off NONE then you must move the dot PAST the hatched area to get the state change"

That's it:)

Examples (all from one system):



We start off in NONE and start doing actions to reduce ECONOMY. The dot is in NONE, so no hatching






The dot enters BUST, and the whole section gets hatched. (Compare this with FAMINE later). We need to get the dot past the hatching for the state change to happen.






In this case we still haven't got BUST, we still are not past the hatching - but the hatching shows that BUST is the state we will get if we continue.






Now we are in FAMINE, but BUST has not happened - but BUST went Pending as we moved past the hatching.





After a day pending the BUST went active, so now the FAMINE area is hatched to show where we need to move the dot. Note that not the entire area has been hatched, so you don't need to get all the way. (I seem to recall the same one the positive side).





In the FAMINE area you only need to move the dot past the hatching (so - not the whole section) for the FAMINE to start. (Hopefully soon :) )



This also explains the significance of the sections being different lengths in different systems - a larger NONE section makes it potentially easier to get the other states (as their sections are smaller).

I like this theory as it's pretty straightforward. It's also a nice way to show you what will happen, rather than filling a hidden bucket of Biowaste until someone shouts OUTBREAK!. Still lots to do to prove if it actually ... is true :) Also need to look at what the hatching does as you come back towards NONE, etc etc. Also lots to do with how fast you can move the dot - it appears capped, and to change in the different sections. And ofc this is the point someone links an earlier thread with the same theory even better explained :D
Thanks Facta, this does appear to make sense! :)
 
Updated FP with the last steps to FAMINE. Think my theory is holding so far, though the hatching with FAMINE-pending is a bit strange.
 
Dropping from Investment to Boom also appears to pass through (a brief?) None state. I'm seeing that in quite a few systems this evening.
Good to know - I raised the transition as a bug, though hopefully they'll look at more important issues first. My main issue is that the idea of the bar display was, I thought, to help understand what is happening - and if you come across a system in a pending state it's not very obvious.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/477750-Strange-Transition-from-Bust-to-Famine
 
Last edited:
Why! Mr Pirate! You have been busy :)

Did you engineer those states yourself?
It's natural progression. Investment leads to added pirate activity which then eventually lowers the economic state. As it continues to slide to the left, it will trigger a BUST state. Reverting it is simply a case of mission running to boost the economy.
 
Last edited:
It's natural progression. Investment leads to added pirate activity which then eventually lowers the economic state. As it continues to slide to the left, it will trigger a BUST state. Reverting it is simply a case of mission running to boost the economy.
Investment does lower system security, though not necessarily very much - but this doesn't appear to directly lower the economic state ... and even if it did, surely it would stop at Boom as the system security loss would be removed at that point.

Certainly locally to me this effect does not seem to be particularly strong if it does exist - the player activity pressures which cause Investment seem also to be sufficient to sustain it.
 
Another update - we left my faction in a Famine:



But I wanted to get it back to None, so started doing positive Eco actions (which also had added INF). The INF brought a war with another faction, so today we have:



Looks like the WAR state cancelled the FAMINE (like the good old days I think?), so now we're in state NONE, with a pending BUST. I wasn't expecting this with the new system - why does WAR not stack with FAMINE? And why is BUST pending, can that exist alongside WAR?

So at the moment it looks like FAMINE is pretty pointless - lots of effort to get, few consequences and easily solved by triggering a war. Wonder what happens next :)
 
Top Bottom