Do it FD, stop people relying on kit. Promote skill or at least provide an interim window where skill matters more because reliance on highly engineered kit is not so effective. It will be fun for people who thought they were safe at the top of the module meta foodchain to have to fly seat of the pants again.
FD, I implore you, do not bulldoze over our existing gear and upgrades
- Thread starter Mephane
- Start date
Burn the meta to the ground.
We should be the barbarian hordes facing the Roman Army, the native americans fighting against rifles, Starfleet against The Borg. We might eventually be able to overpower them, but remaining at a technological disadvantage until a leap forward can happen should make any early violent encounters short, brutal and to be avoided at all costs.
We should be the barbarian hordes facing the Roman Army, the native americans fighting against rifles, Starfleet against The Borg. We might eventually be able to overpower them, but remaining at a technological disadvantage until a leap forward can happen should make any early violent encounters short, brutal and to be avoided at all costs.
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Maybe this is why FD let engineers spiral the way they did, make people feel powerful with daft god rolls then strip it away with new uber-goids and equipment requirements, it's a fairly common game design thing. I look forwards to being in a combat with npcs in which I am fairly confident I am going to lose regardless of my mods but having great fun searching for a way to win. Good times!
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Yep reward exploiters by removing the grind they exploited to avoid?
Do you also reward your children for cheating at Monopoly because they don't want to wait to pass go before they get the £200?
Do you also reward your children for cheating at Monopoly because they don't want to wait to pass go before they get the £200?
Do it.
Bulldoze it, chop it up, throw it behind closet, lock the door and throw away the key and job well done, I say.
Bulldoze it, chop it up, throw it behind closet, lock the door and throw away the key and job well done, I say.
Great, so there's something to do again.
I've long since unlocked all the Engineers, Raised them to G5, own a fleet of 34 ships, all Engineered. I even I have a course committed to memory that takes me in a nice loop around all of them, to upgrade any new ship.
The introduction of a new Engineer sounds good to me. My Material bin sits at 1000/1000, and has since about the 3rd day I played.
If you know what you're looking for and where to look, it rarely takes more than a hour to find any given material, and with Commodities off the blueprints, Engineering is even easier than ever.
A new engineer is not like solving the alien ruins from scratch, or analyzing a spectrogram to find a diagram, to build an encryption table, to decode encrypted binary transmitted by a strange object, but only when in a specific region of space.
Well I guess I should congratulate OP for starting the first thread in which people will theorycraft every possible way that things could go, only to discover that no matter what is suggested someone loves it and someone hates it.
By the way (and proving my own point) some of us quite like engineering. Sorry about that.
By the way (and proving my own point) some of us quite like engineering. Sorry about that.
Just have me grind for the weapons and modules, tied to new content.
Give them sliders.
(Optional) Make me pay mats every time I want to changes the sliders, so FD can still "kindly suggest" that players get out there and experience old content. Wanna change the sliders on that PA? Im in an osmium mood. Go get me some of that. Oh you wanna change it again? Now I want some MEF.
Ugh. Nevermind. I'm already bored. Just give them sliders.
Alien power plant provides XXX.XX of energy. Divy it where you want it.
Give them sliders.
(Optional) Make me pay mats every time I want to changes the sliders, so FD can still "kindly suggest" that players get out there and experience old content. Wanna change the sliders on that PA? Im in an osmium mood. Go get me some of that. Oh you wanna change it again? Now I want some MEF.
Ugh. Nevermind. I'm already bored. Just give them sliders.
Alien power plant provides XXX.XX of energy. Divy it where you want it.
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You are the type of player who constantly wants some new gear to work for. That's not a criticism, that's fine. Plenty of games indeed are tailored to that preference.
Elite Dangerous came along as one of the rare games where such is not the case. You could play how you like, earn credits, buy whatever gear you want, and eventually reach a finite gear ceiling together with everyone else, then only skill mattered.
More than once did I commend FD for precisely this.
Enter 2.1 and we have the same old "grind and RNG and grind and RNG for gear with bigger numbers" treadmill that 10000 other games already cater to.
I do play my own way still - I didn't visit an engineer ever. I would have visited an engineer if it wasn't RNG. I also find the AI to be quite easy to deal with right now so with an engineered ship I worry the threat I currently face will be sterilised. I'm all for engineers losing their RNG and think it would make the game better, but eitherway I'm not really concerned, it's certainly not a deal breaker as I have done just fine ignoring them up until now.
DO IT FD!
You'll clean up the mess you made of the game with Engineers. Then you can revisit Engineers when you do your post 2.4 core improvements and rework it to be more manageable.
Come on, you know you want to, you know all the hassle Engineers injected into the game with all the balance issues and the insane grind the players have to put up with.
I won't be mean to you if you do, it's better to realize you made a mistake and try and correct it than continue with something daft just so you don't have to admit you were wrong!
You'll clean up the mess you made of the game with Engineers. Then you can revisit Engineers when you do your post 2.4 core improvements and rework it to be more manageable.
Come on, you know you want to, you know all the hassle Engineers injected into the game with all the balance issues and the insane grind the players have to put up with.
I won't be mean to you if you do, it's better to realize you made a mistake and try and correct it than continue with something daft just so you don't have to admit you were wrong!
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Of the few good things to come out of God Roll Gate was a widened understanding amongst the player base of the actual potential for - properly so called - god rolls.
I've lost track of the number of times I've seen guys on here treating a Coriolis 'best' preset of +30% on dirty drives - being the blueprint max - as if it actually is the max.
Now more are aware that the known best rolls are +42.9%, some with a very good mass secondary to boot.
As has recently been ventilated on reddit by some very knowledgeable players, this is a truly horrible system.
For approximately 1 in 500 of the game's rarest treasure chests to contain an ultra-rare item that is substantially better than the other 499 items across those rarest treasure chests is, well, wow.
Another example is a charge enhanced Power Distributor with over +50% on all three, Sys, Eng and Weps. I am aware of this being achieved.
And then we have the Bi-Weave with +10% on active regen AND +10% on passive regen AND god roll resists AND god roll strength.
Put those three items on a FdL or Courier - truly god rolled drives, distro and bi-weave - and you have a dog-fighting machine that is going to roll over anyone with comparable skill, again and again and again. It's a perfect storm of 1/500 chances. And I could, incidentally, go on, citing some of the weapon mods also.
I just pray that whatever Frontier do with the Thargoids, it gets rid of the above. I'm sorry, I know that for some it's fun to gather 1000 x Cracked Industrial Firmware completely legit and for that matter 1000 x Pharmaceutical Isolators also completely legit (oh, and 1000 x Cadmium, also completely legit) and then see how fast you can make your Imperial Eagle.
But I'm afraid with the greatest respect there will always be outliers and that is what somebody who really does that 1000 times is - themselves an outlier personality, chasing an outlier RNG roll.
The reality of god-rolling is that most people either do 5 or 10 rolls and - by sheer luck - happen to be amongst the 1-2% of the 2,000,000 players who by 5-10 rolls will hit the 1/500 jackpot. For no good reason at all.
For the 'purposive' god rollers, it's either insane grind or exploiting (or, as some have pointed out on reddit, actually both).
I actually think Frontier have done a reasonable job of scaling back on the RNGineer grind. As I said earlier in this thread, it's not as painful as it once was.
But please, please, please, Frontier - whatever you do with this Thargoid thing - please don't do this 1 in 500 of the rarest treasure chests thing to us again.
No more god rolls.
I've lost track of the number of times I've seen guys on here treating a Coriolis 'best' preset of +30% on dirty drives - being the blueprint max - as if it actually is the max.
Now more are aware that the known best rolls are +42.9%, some with a very good mass secondary to boot.
As has recently been ventilated on reddit by some very knowledgeable players, this is a truly horrible system.
For approximately 1 in 500 of the game's rarest treasure chests to contain an ultra-rare item that is substantially better than the other 499 items across those rarest treasure chests is, well, wow.
Another example is a charge enhanced Power Distributor with over +50% on all three, Sys, Eng and Weps. I am aware of this being achieved.
And then we have the Bi-Weave with +10% on active regen AND +10% on passive regen AND god roll resists AND god roll strength.
Put those three items on a FdL or Courier - truly god rolled drives, distro and bi-weave - and you have a dog-fighting machine that is going to roll over anyone with comparable skill, again and again and again. It's a perfect storm of 1/500 chances. And I could, incidentally, go on, citing some of the weapon mods also.
I just pray that whatever Frontier do with the Thargoids, it gets rid of the above. I'm sorry, I know that for some it's fun to gather 1000 x Cracked Industrial Firmware completely legit and for that matter 1000 x Pharmaceutical Isolators also completely legit (oh, and 1000 x Cadmium, also completely legit) and then see how fast you can make your Imperial Eagle.
But I'm afraid with the greatest respect there will always be outliers and that is what somebody who really does that 1000 times is - themselves an outlier personality, chasing an outlier RNG roll.
The reality of god-rolling is that most people either do 5 or 10 rolls and - by sheer luck - happen to be amongst the 1-2% of the 2,000,000 players who by 5-10 rolls will hit the 1/500 jackpot. For no good reason at all.
For the 'purposive' god rollers, it's either insane grind or exploiting (or, as some have pointed out on reddit, actually both).
I actually think Frontier have done a reasonable job of scaling back on the RNGineer grind. As I said earlier in this thread, it's not as painful as it once was.
But please, please, please, Frontier - whatever you do with this Thargoid thing - please don't do this 1 in 500 of the rarest treasure chests thing to us again.
No more god rolls.
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As i will no matter what, no matter how hopless it is, try to make friendship with thargoids I'm fine with sticking to weapons that don't work againts Thargoids.
... I really want them to sell me a flowership
... I really want them to sell me a flowership
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![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
obviously we only speak for ourselves. i do not know how much time you have put into the eng dance, and you have no idea how much time i have.... but just because i do not like pvp does not mean i have not put a lot of time in.
for instance some pvpers (not saying you) have mode swapped, mission stacked, crack trained yada yada yada to an inch of its life and as such may well have done 10x more roles at the wheel of RNG than I.
but as someone who has tried NOT to do any of the above, it is quite possible i have done more ENG than you may think, if all you were to do was to look at my number of rolls.
I STILL would take being put back to stock if it is the only way to get rid of the cheated rolls / get rid of god rolls in general... and i dont even pvp
that said, we are all entitled to our view, none are wrong (apart from those who claim cheating is fine in a multplayer game which i do not think you are one)
I actually quite like the outside chance of getting a truly phenomenal module. I've got one, currently (on dirty drive
).See all that stuff you wrote, in particular the parts about the 'kind of people'? It's only a problem if you're the 'kind of person' who can't get to sleep knowing that someone got a 2% better roll on their drive than you ever managed.
Note - I'm saying this as someone who does have a couple (literally a couple, out of multiple mods on 18 ships) of items which are towards the high end of the possibilities, although not actually maxed out, but who generally won't roll more than 10 attempts at anything. Most of my modified weapons have been the best of 5 rolls, ditto power plants, drives etc. The only mods that I've actively spammed maybe 40 rolls for in total are FSDs for my exploration ships. I've also never used exploits.
My point here is that what you're basically saying in your post is 'kill the entire set of engineering mechanics as they are in the game today because I can't deal with the fact that someone may have better stuff than me'
No. Sorry. If your argument is that it 'needs' to be done, you will have to provide a far better justification for it than that. In particular, one that isn't entirely rooted in your personal wants and needs.
Word.
I think (always did) the proper solution would be no more RNG. Each mod comes with its fixed set of stats and that's it. In turn, the cost of an individual mod could rise (let's say by a factor of 10) because you don't have to repeatedly apply it in hope for a better roll.