FD should increase size of the team developing ED
- Thread starter Cmdr Eagleboy
- Start date
I agree that devs are working on DLC, but I doubt it will be released this year. More like next spring or summer.
I hope that is the case. I would have assumed that such sizeable DLC (aka Premium Content) would be promoted during Gamescom, along with more 3.3 specifics, but tbf that assumption is based on FDev's prior marketing strategy for Elite's major updates (which may have changed).
Exactly, right to the point.
I think what Zac meant is that we will get some small taster of premium new content, but not much else.
But it is as good speculation as yours. Fact FD hasn't removed that comment from Zac - they have done that in the past - indicates that *something* is coming this year. I just doubt it is anything big.
Peopleware is all you'll ever need. My personal summary of 20+ years in the business.
O7,
[noob]
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I believe that FD's focus and strategy regarding Elite changed when the Horizon didn't meet their expectations in terms of sales. What they did at that point was to DOWNSIZE the team/effort and push the 2.x content with less manpower effort but on a longer timeline to compensate. Probably even drop some features or QoL additions in the process. And divert efforts to PC, JW, the PS4 release, etc.
This is the only reasonable explanation regarding what we got versus our expectations (the realist ones, not the fantasist ones).
In the beginning, FD needed to push the game for sale with limited resources and without knowing (besides the KS success) how well it will sell. That's why they planned a staged release, in order to recover the costs of development ASAP. Based on the initial sales, they started working on Horizon, only to be somehow underwhelmed by its (not so warm) receiving. Do not forget also that they were split into PC, Mac, Xbox One and the projected PS4. It must have been some heavy meetings in the board room.
Remember "the season model is dead" sentence? That was the point that signaled the new strategy for ED. The only problem is we were not told what the strategy was (and still is). What to expect, when and with what effort...
This is it.
This is the only reasonable explanation regarding what we got versus our expectations (the realist ones, not the fantasist ones).
In the beginning, FD needed to push the game for sale with limited resources and without knowing (besides the KS success) how well it will sell. That's why they planned a staged release, in order to recover the costs of development ASAP. Based on the initial sales, they started working on Horizon, only to be somehow underwhelmed by its (not so warm) receiving. Do not forget also that they were split into PC, Mac, Xbox One and the projected PS4. It must have been some heavy meetings in the board room.
Remember "the season model is dead" sentence? That was the point that signaled the new strategy for ED. The only problem is we were not told what the strategy was (and still is). What to expect, when and with what effort...
This is it.
I am not convinced either way on that one, overall it does not matter when it happens in essence providing it is delivered in a reasonable state of quality. I can understand the impatience of some but personally I would rather a release be delayed than a release be of shoddy quality. Too many AAA developers do the latter.
Yep, same here: Quality > Punctuality.
Open communication of what is happening, i.e. if planned timeframes change, are very welcome too.
in terms of sales or as simple reality check once it became evident entire planets are hard to do. maybe they just burnt out. whatever it was, indeed something happened at release of horizons. the remainder of the season was mostly just filler and i see beyond as just more horizons filler.
actually they have been very open about that, you should read their last financial report, it's very clarifying. in short, it places elite as just another title of a growing franchise portfolio. explains a lot, makes sense, but doesn't rule out that they could have been working on something special in the shadow. they better have ...
I agree with your assessment of FDev's strategy change, it's the most sensible explanation given what has transpired. Regarding Horizons' 2.x development itself, I would add this speculation:
I am not explicitly against this BUT I do not believe it should be expected - the average person in the gaming community seems to be demonstrably incapable of reacting well to changes in plans... unless it is to their advantage.
Remember how during 2016 when people asked what are Horizons exclusive things when reading release changelogs?
FD did not decrease workload, they just made core gameplay improvements a much bigger focus. Also it is possible Horizons plan involved to dedicate another team at FD for it. When Horizons low sales came, that plan was scrapped.
FD did not decrease workload, they just made core gameplay improvements a much bigger focus. Also it is possible Horizons plan involved to dedicate another team at FD for it. When Horizons low sales came, that plan was scrapped.
Wohoo, Definition of 'Done' vs. Milestones. SCRUM, all in one package 
But then: it's always the same on the mythical 'Eve Before The Release'. Today, we're 100% sure & convinced about all the well-justified criticism. But tomorrow, when we read the change notes, we'll be humbled. Again.
Prove me wrong
How I love this game! O7,
[noob]
But then: it's always the same on the mythical 'Eve Before The Release'. Today, we're 100% sure & convinced about all the well-justified criticism. But tomorrow, when we read the change notes, we'll be humbled. Again.
Prove me wrong
How I love this game! O7,
[noob]
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You may be right on both accounts. I wouldn't call the sales "low" per-se, but maybe lower than planned/expected. I hope they plan to incorporate Horizon in the base game after 3.3 one way or another.
The only thing that was "strange" was the very slow pace for horizon with late updates and everything.
It feels like they faced some kind of coding snafu requiring a lot of refactoring time, delaying everything.
Think about stupid things like no mix between wings and MC, no SRV in MC etc... it smells coding issues.
But more than that, I think that the game lacks a clear focus in design/creative direction.
It feels like the "heads" don't know what the game is supposed to be and fallback to bolt-on minigames from a lack of vision.
I would add that many times the game feels like the designers have a large perception gap between what they suppose the game plays like
and how the game actually plays out.
The game is certainly not bad. It's certainly not great either as far as open world adventure goes.
More devs on the project only works if the code is well designed and modular enough with a clear vision, otherwise it's just a case of too many cooks.
It feels like they faced some kind of coding snafu requiring a lot of refactoring time, delaying everything.
Think about stupid things like no mix between wings and MC, no SRV in MC etc... it smells coding issues.
But more than that, I think that the game lacks a clear focus in design/creative direction.
It feels like the "heads" don't know what the game is supposed to be and fallback to bolt-on minigames from a lack of vision.
I would add that many times the game feels like the designers have a large perception gap between what they suppose the game plays like
and how the game actually plays out.
The game is certainly not bad. It's certainly not great either as far as open world adventure goes.
More devs on the project only works if the code is well designed and modular enough with a clear vision, otherwise it's just a case of too many cooks.
Rafe Zetter
Banned
Good answer - MMM is indeed a classic and makes it clear more =/= better output, BUT as another said above the RIGHT TOOLS can increase productivity with more people.
It's not helped by the fact that FDev employ a large number of "just out of uni" programmers and modellers etc; they are known for it in the industry, and while it's good they do that to give people a chance, thier products and ultimately thier game players, suffer as a result of inexperience. They are also known as being lower on the scale of pay rates on a like for like basis.
However you want to spin it that equates to cheaper low experienced labour.
By far the biggest reason why Star Citizen is taking so long is they are taking the time to develop the tools, NOW, and get the SOLID FOUNDATIONS built so that everything created with it is easier, and most importantly, that it meshes well with everything else - in other words no spaghetti code. Anyone who knows about building and houses with subsidence will know that fixing the poor foundations of a domestic property will cost more that it cost to build the entire house and decorate and fill it with furniture. Sometimes it's cheaper just to knock it down and redo it.
It seems more and more likely that FDev have been creating on the fly, and apart from the cobra engine they created, a lot of the other necessary tools either don't exist or are rudimentary at best, it's about the only reasonable conclusion considering how long they take to produce stuff and how many things they break doing it. (IF you beleive they have 1/3 of thier available 313 staff working on ED)
You are correct that some people wan't "thier changes", but a whole lot more just want what was laid out by DB in the KS (yes we are back to that) or changes and ideas that were laid out in the DDF. AFAIK there are very few people who've read through the DDF to any degree who've said "nah I don't want that game, I 'm happy with ED as it is".
The DDF is an astounding set of ideas, almost entirely wasted.
As someone said in another thread a long time ago - 3 years I think - "if you fix the broken stuff, complaint threads like this will stop all on their own without needing people to defend it".
Open world games ARE contraversial, and that's never been denied. HOWEVER a lot of people issue are with WHAT HAPPENS under XYZ conditions and is it either "realitic according to the game" or "broken, just at broken". C&P was broken (some say still is). Multicrew IS broken, mining IS broken in as much as it's the most rudimentary mechanic possible to get away with saying "we have mining", bounty hunting.... the list goes on.
eagleboy - I think I'm going to pass out.
did I actually just read a post from you that DOES NOT proclaim "FDev are amazeballs, everything they do is amazing and you are all wrong" ?
seems the coolade might finally be wearing off, just for that I'm going to elevate you to "Cmdr Eagleboy" from now on and use proper capitals in your name and everything, there's hope for you yet.
I just felt a large disturbance in the force XD
The game is a dumpster fire that is about to crash and burn. Poor Leadership, feature creep, worsening finances, bad engine, poor network implementation. Tools?! what tools. Any thing substantial in SC has to be done manually. We complain about ED but at least we have a working game. No Man Sky is probably the example you are looking for.