it's days like these that make me regret not getting into pitchfork and torch sales.
FDev, please open direct interactive communication lines with us! Drag Munition situation proves this is needed.
- Thread starter Hole in Head
- Start date
In no way am I trying to stir up an angry mob. In fact, I'm trying to prevent it. It took an angry mob to alert FDev of the issues around the sudden change to Drag Munitions. If we had more open communications before hand, that would not have been required.
I mean, who would though that firstly doing PAID BETAS, then having an open beta - but ignoring most feedback provided (heat ammo/heal beams) and then getting rid of the beta stage altogether will lead to frustration and buggy mess of a patch EVERY TIME a patch is released.
Seriously how anyone could predict that!
And stop saying "hot build" please. Your god damn live releases are hot builds. We are not laughing at this joke any more after all those years.
Also, as the thread says - please, dear devs, for the sake of the game, if you have no one competent enough to actually touch PvP or end game combat in general there's a whole bunch of people that are banned from echo chamber Reddit sub - just get the list and ask them. There's a reason we need to cross-post nowadays and the reason why there is no more good theorycrafting talk on the sub you could use as a valid feedback.
Seriously how anyone could predict that!
And stop saying "hot build" please. Your god damn live releases are hot builds. We are not laughing at this joke any more after all those years.
Also, as the thread says - please, dear devs, for the sake of the game, if you have no one competent enough to actually touch PvP or end game combat in general there's a whole bunch of people that are banned from echo chamber Reddit sub - just get the list and ask them. There's a reason we need to cross-post nowadays and the reason why there is no more good theorycrafting talk on the sub you could use as a valid feedback.
Dear FDev,
Proactive>Reactive
thank you for your time and attention
Proactive>Reactive
thank you for your time and attention
Hard to respond to online communities when you bury your head in the sand, sing LaLaLaLaaaa and pretend isn't broken.
On the one hand it is unreasonable for us as a playerbase to demand that a developer run changes to their game through us for approval, but on the other hand SOME kind of filter should have caught this before it made it to the live game. We're just offering to help as FDev appears to lacking.
To drop this pvp tweak into what is supposed to be a noob-centric QOL update was a bad move.
For me this change is a non-issue as I dont pvp or even play in open...but a bad idea is still a bad idea.
During the paid beta phase there were some attempts at re-balancing the pvp game. they were ultimately abandoned after feedback.
Apparently players wanted a game that's fun, not a futile grind and struggle.
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Yes, balance is needed. I certainly do not wish for FDev to run everything through us, or do nothing without player support. I respect fully that it is their game to do as they please. We only wish to help make this a greater game for all, and communication is key to do so.
This^^^
While I do think some of the response was overblown given that this OP mod was always going to be rolled back, I agree it would have been vastly more constructive to communicate the goals of the change so that alternatives could have been suggested. As things progressed from the initial knee-jerk reaction to a violent response, I think a new "third rail politics" of the boost-based-flight model was created, and that's a bad thing going forward.
Gentlemen, you are massively over-hyped about drag.
Some of us (well me) have been using drag munitions for quite some time. let me explain.
I fly open but I'm not a PvP'r as most define it. I fight, I fight well. Those who have interdicted me know they have had a fight and know I can look after myself, the difference is I don't go looking for PvP, well not yet.
I have used drag munitions as self defence, both frags and packhounds. They are very effective in defence and really upset the style of many PvP guys. Which is good, from my point of view. Now, if you are in open and you don't PvP as your main style (maybe you mission run, or cargo haul, or bounty hunt) with this addition of affecting boost for drag munitions, you should be in clover. This is the best news for me, for years.
Imagine, a Cutter interdicts and wants to play long range phase against me. With the new boost affect, I reverski (I don't care what the PvP crowd say about reverski) and begin to start the action, hi cap packs with drag, frags with drag and the rest are a mix of incendiary MC's, corrosive MC's and O/C MC's. You reckon he will even think of sticking around as I pack his *ss and start chasing? Hehehehhe….
And if they come at me with drag? Too late, they can't escape cos I got it too. My Cutter has 10k MJ shields, hi resistances, I'm fully armed and carry MRP and HRP. I shift 300T cargo if I want.
Bonus spin? Best look at a combat Python with these drag changes, now this could be fun
Enjoy life, it's dakka-dakka time.
Some of us (well me) have been using drag munitions for quite some time. let me explain.
I fly open but I'm not a PvP'r as most define it. I fight, I fight well. Those who have interdicted me know they have had a fight and know I can look after myself, the difference is I don't go looking for PvP, well not yet.
I have used drag munitions as self defence, both frags and packhounds. They are very effective in defence and really upset the style of many PvP guys. Which is good, from my point of view. Now, if you are in open and you don't PvP as your main style (maybe you mission run, or cargo haul, or bounty hunt) with this addition of affecting boost for drag munitions, you should be in clover. This is the best news for me, for years.
Imagine, a Cutter interdicts and wants to play long range phase against me. With the new boost affect, I reverski (I don't care what the PvP crowd say about reverski) and begin to start the action, hi cap packs with drag, frags with drag and the rest are a mix of incendiary MC's, corrosive MC's and O/C MC's. You reckon he will even think of sticking around as I pack his *ss and start chasing? Hehehehhe….
And if they come at me with drag? Too late, they can't escape cos I got it too. My Cutter has 10k MJ shields, hi resistances, I'm fully armed and carry MRP and HRP. I shift 300T cargo if I want.
Bonus spin? Best look at a combat Python with these drag changes, now this could be fun
Enjoy life, it's dakka-dakka time.
To be clear, this thread is not about debating the merits of the changes to Drag Munitions. Whether you supported it or not, the resulting outcry makes it clear there was, at a minimum, a lack of communication. Had there been interactive communication, the change may have well been better received, or the change modified to account for use cases they did not expect.Gentlemen, you are massively over-hyped about drag.
Some of us (well me) have been using drag munitions for quite some time. let me explain.
I fly open but I'm not a PvP'r as most define it. I fight, I fight well. Those who have interdicted me know they have had a fight and know I can look after myself, the difference is I don't go looking for PvP, well not yet.
I have used drag munitions as self defence, both frags and packhounds. They are very effective in defence and really upset the style of many PvP guys. Which is good, from my point of view. Now, if you are in open and you don't PvP as your main style (maybe you mission run, or cargo haul, or bounty hunt) with this addition of affecting boost for drag munitions, you should be in clover. This is the best news for me, for years.
Imagine, a Cutter interdicts and wants to play long range phase against me. With the new boost affect, I reverski (I don't care what the PvP crowd say about reverski) and begin to start the action, hi cap packs with drag, frags with drag and the rest are a mix of incendiary MC's, corrosive MC's and O/C MC's. You reckon he will even think of sticking around as I pack his *ss and start chasing? Hehehehhe….
And if they come at me with drag? Too late, they can't escape cos I got it too. My Cutter has 10k MJ shields, hi resistances, I'm fully armed and carry MRP and HRP. I shift 300T cargo if I want.
Bonus spin? Best look at a combat Python with these drag changes, now this could be fun
Enjoy life, it's dakka-dakka time.
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Could you get anymore Snowflake? You're whining because you didn't get consulted? It's a game, some balance happened, get over it.
I have no illusions suggesting I personally need to be the one consulted. There are people far more experienced and knowledgeable about the game than I. I'm asking FDev to engage with the community, not me specifically.
the line of balance is extremely thin when it comes to multi wing pvp.
you have to be a really active fighter pilot and in battle with the most dangerous pvper out there to see the whole context and dependences.
please frontier be so smart and use the input of the people who are willing to help here. the outcome will be a win and a benefit for the whole community not only for us pvper.
i also think you will save time in the development progress.
you have to be a really active fighter pilot and in battle with the most dangerous pvper out there to see the whole context and dependences.
please frontier be so smart and use the input of the people who are willing to help here. the outcome will be a win and a benefit for the whole community not only for us pvper.
i also think you will save time in the development progress.
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It's not?
I agree people overreacted because it was always going to be nerfed, but that is missing the point of this thread. The major takeaway here is that players tend to know the game much better than the Devs, because we spend vastly more collective time playing than they could even if they spent all their free time playing, simply because there are so many more of us than there are Devs. We are also the ones that provide the player created content and income streams to keep the game going, so if players were THIS unhappy with a patch cycle, it has potentially huge implications for everyone involved, even if they overacted and quit over an obviously temporary situation.
The most deadly pvpers can fly a hauler and be deadly to other players. Ergo, basing game balance around edge cases is tricky, and while it should definitely be taken into consideration, I don't think it should be the starting point of a conversation on balance. A topic of a different thread though perhaps.
ok....stand down everyone.
from Will:
Drag Munitions
from Will:
Drag Munitions
- Based on your feedback, we will revert the change that we made to Drag Munitions, changing them back to how they worked prior to the April Update. However, this is something we may look to revisit in the future.
Fdev did in fact dial back the changes per forum input (your welcome everyone and good job! to those who helped) as well as Operation Drag Queen, so you don't have a really solid point there.
Yes, it's good that they are listening to the community in this circumstance, and I'm thankful for that. However, as I said before, this is not about the specific situation around Drag Munitions, but the underlying issue around the lack of communication that caused this.
how I would balance this game:
1) monitor pvp builds
2) nerf all meta builds
3) goto 1
eventually you'll have a balanced system where nothing is so OP that you have to build your ships for fighting/countering meta builds and it all comes down to skill and strategy.
1) monitor pvp builds
2) nerf all meta builds
3) goto 1
eventually you'll have a balanced system where nothing is so OP that you have to build your ships for fighting/countering meta builds and it all comes down to skill and strategy.
Strip engineering out of the game utterly. Done.