FDev's Arthur: "We think Thursday's stream will be really good, looking forward to it" RETURN OF GALNET?

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Well, you mean like a real service game with continous support?:p

At least they could have created a framework to create such unique missions. It is probalby pretty similar to CGs, but a way smaller scope or even just a single opportunity. Would have been better than nothing.

Yes, yes yes and yes! But they decided to move resources elsewhere. Not much we can do about it really... I just hope that what we will get instead will be worth it (talking aboujt Odyssey).
 
With the execption of back in the day game were not released unfinished or WIP.
I guess you weren't playing in those days then.... I was and can assert that your perception is incredibly incorrect!

"Alternate Reality", anyone? (If I could remember the titles of a couple more from the 70's & 80's I'll drop them in later)
 
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CMDRs get annoyed when features are removed.

CMDRs get excited when features are added.

Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Removing features is considered acceptable now, otherwise you couldn't speak of "perfectly balanced", right?

Edit:
With the execption of back in the day game were not released unfinished or WIP. Features could not be removed or bolted on. Features weren't paid in advance, so there was not such a need for communication. The situation is very different since games are released unfinished, full of bugs and features broken or incomplete. In those cases (and this is true for any service provider) communication with the customer is of paramount importance.
Huh? If removing features was considered acceptable by CMDRs, then CMDRs wouldn't get annoyed when features are removed.

Meanwhile, the MMO Ultima Online was launched 23 years ago in 1997 (back in the day), and has received many free updates and paid expansions in the years since, fixing bugs and adding features/content.

Also, the FPS Quake was launched 24 years ago in 1996 (back in the day), and received many free updates and paid expansions in the following couple of years, fixing bugs and adding features/content.

Are you just looking for a reason to moan now?
 
I guess you weren't playing in those days then.... I was and can assert that your perception is incredibly incorrect!

"Alternate Reality", anyone? (If I could remember the titles of a couple more from the 70's & 80's I'll drop them in later)
You got me there. I started playing in the 90's. And when I look at games like Magic Carpet, Doom or The Need for Speed or Descent they don't seem to have the problems described.
 
You got me there. I started playing in the 90's. And when I look at games like Magic Carpet, Doom or The Need for Speed or Descent they don't seem to have the problems described.
Doom and Descent received a bunch of post-launch patches, each that fixed bugs - you can see their patch version histories here:
 
You got me there. I started playing in the 90's. And when I look at games like Magic Carpet, Doom or The Need for Speed or Descent they don't seem to have the problems described.
It is the advantage of being quite a 'senior', I suppose ;)

Even in the 90's it wasn't uncommon for fixes to appear on magazine cover discs... (some of which broke things that were fine before... sound familiar?)

It is always fascinating to read the misgivings and complaints over ED that appear on occasion here, they inevitably produce a wry smile for me :coffee:
 
You got me there. I started playing in the 90's. And when I look at games like Magic Carpet, Doom or The Need for Speed or Descent they don't seem to have the problems described.

None of the games you mention were more ambitious than even Elite: Dangerous 1.0.

The few that did approach Elite's level of complexity -- Daggerfall, Frontier: Elite 2, etc. -- were riddled with often game-breaking bugs at launch, in an age when many didn't even have internet access to download patches, and when fixes were made and accessible they were small bandaids rather than overhauls or large feature additions.

When games were released, that was it, you were LUCKY if you got a handful bugfixes, maybe a paid mission pack or two a year down the line, that was basically just some extra maps and a new gun.

An Elite Dangerous of that era would not have received anything like the long term support the game has since 2014. Back then, Frontier's solution to F:E2's issues was to release a whole new paid-for game in FFE.

So yeah, while such games with handcrafted levels were indeed usually more complete and substantial at launch, more ambitious and free-form games that would have benefited from long-term support and a slow release of updates and fixes over years, didn't get it. And users suffered through far far far worse than we do with Elite Dangerous.
 
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None of the games you mention were more ambitious than even Elite: Dangerous 1.0.

The few that did approach Elite's level of complexity -- Daggerfall, Frontier: Elite 2, etc. -- were riddled with often game-breaking bugs at launch, in an age when many didn't even have internet access to download patches, and when fixes were made and accessible they were small bandaids rather than overhauls or large feature additions.

When games were released, that was it, you were LUCKY if you got a handful bugfixes, maybe a paid mission pack or two a year down the line, that was basically just some extra maps and a new gun.

An Elite Dangerous of that era would not have received anything like the long term support the game has since 2014.

So yeah, while such games with handcrafted levels were indeed usually more complete and substantial at launch, more ambitious and free-form games that would have benefited from long-term support and a slow release of updates and fixes over years, didn't get it. And users suffered through far far far worse than we do with Elite Dangerous.
This. On a related note, the Speed Running community is somewhat built around the premise of finding and exploiting bugs and flaws in classic games, to decrease game-completion times as much as possible.
 
Huh? If removing features was considered acceptable by CMDRs, then CMDRs wouldn't get annoyed when features are removed.
The term "perfectly balanced" was what I found odd.

Meanwhile, the MMO Ultima Online was launched 23 years ago in 1997 (back in the day), and has received many free updates and paid expansions in the years since, fixing bugs and adding features/content.

Also, the FPS Quake was launched 24 years ago in 1996 (back in the day), and received many free updates and paid expansions in the following couple of years, fixing bugs and adding features/content.

Are you just looking for a reason to moan now?
No, my argument is, that games were released back then were in a better state all in all.
 
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I guess you weren't playing in those days then.... I was and can assert that your perception is incredibly incorrect!

"Alternate Reality", anyone? (If I could remember the titles of a couple more from the 70's & 80's I'll drop them in later)

Respectfully disagree.

I've been playing video games since the mid 1970s and whilst they were typically limited in scope (ie. you could reach the end of them) the vast majority were 'finished' and not 'WIP' in the sense they were feature complete, some bugs not withstanding. This was partly due to the fact there was only so much you could cram into the limited resources available at the time and there was no really effective way to update them after they were launched, particularly pre-internet, newsgroups, BBS etc (yes, limited magazine support and occasional patch disks later on).

I didn't play alternate reality, but I recall it on the Atari ST (?) as an episodic series that was never finished, arguably the first game was completed.
Other bad examples include Frontier First Encounters, which had game breaking bugs at launch which was fixed by patch disks.

It is true to say that none of those early games received any kind of "extended support" like we enjoy today with titles like Elite Dangerous. Older games would have a 2-3 year lifespan until the "next cool thing" came along.

Cheers,

Drew.
 
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Deleted member 38366

D
10 Pages because of..... possible GALnet? Hype?
You guys can't be serious.

Even if it is, it merely would mean something that should have never been completely abandoned like it was.
No reason to praise them, it was their mistake, critical understaffing and treating the live game like abandonware..
It'd be the equivalent for praising the exact same ones responsible for the maintenance mode content drought for delivering a drop of water.

PS.
Right now the quickfix would be to simply rename GALnet into POWERnet - it only holds the vastly irrelevant PowerPlay hourly update ;)
No news is good news they say...
 
The term "perfectly balanced" was what I found odd.

No, my argument is, that games were release in a better state back then.
Some were - true... but isn't the "ED has bugs and doesn't have exactly what I want / expect' a little blinkered? Or are you intimating that every piece of entertainment software released today is a bug-ridden WIP?

Balance?
 
The term "perfectly balanced" was what I found odd.
The term i used was "Perfectly balanced, as all things should be".

It is a phrase from a film released in 2018, Avengers Infinity War. I can understand if you hadn't heard it before as that film was rather niche, only grossing $2 billion in worldwide sales 🤷‍♂️
 
Some were - true... but isn't the "ED has bugs and doesn't have exactly what I want / expect' a little blinkered? Or are you intimating that every piece of entertainment software released today is a bug-ridden WIP?

Balance?
I did not say, old games never received updates, nor did I say they were in perfect condition. I did say unfinished and WIP. What once was an exception, is more a norm today. It is even more absurd, when games in early access start to get DLC (like Ark).

Edit:
The term i used was "Perfectly balanced, as all things should be".

It is a phrase from a film released in 2018, Avengers Infinity War. I can understand if you hadn't heard it before as that film was rather niche, only grossing $2 billion in worldwide sales 🤷‍♂️
Haven't seen it, yet.
 
Respectfully disagree.

I've been playing video games since the mid 1970s and whilst they were typically limited in scope (ie. you could reach the end of them) the vast majority were 'finished' and not 'WIP' in the sense they were feature complete, some bugs not withstanding. This was partly due to the fact there was only so much you could cram into the limited resources available at the time and there was no really effective way to update them after they were launched, particularly pre-internet, newsgroups, BBS etc (yes, limited magazine support and occasional patch disks later on).

I didn't play alternate reality, but I recall it on the Atari ST (?) as an episodic series that was never finished, arguably the first game was completed.
Other bad examples include Frontier First Encounters, which had game breaking bugs at launch which was fixed by patch disks.

Cheers,

Drew.
I don't mind the respectfully disagree, Drew... It is entirely possible we didn't share the same genre or volume of titles played and my observation is naturally biased toward the experience I had at the time.

Alternate Reality was supposed to be multi-part (5 episodes I think) and the released game was essentially a tiny hub with closed portals to the 'unreleased content' - it really wasn't big enough to be considered a complete game - yet promised much, which never appeared!
 
No, my argument is, that games were released back then were in a better state all in all.

By-and-large... they're weren't.

Some were. But those that were not, often received a lack of follow-on support that would be considered scandalous today.

Respectfully disagree.

I've been playing video games since the mid 1970s and whilst they were typically limited in scope (ie. you could reach the end of them) the vast majority were 'finished' and not 'WIP' in the sense they were feature complete, some bugs not withstanding. This was partly due to the fact there was only so much you could cram into the limited resources available at the time and there was no really effective way to update them after they were launched, particularly pre-internet, newsgroups, BBS etc (yes, limited magazine support and occasional patch disks later on).

I didn't play alternate reality, but I recall it on the Atari ST (?) as an episodic series that was never finished, arguably the first game was completed.
Other bad examples include Frontier First Encounters, which had game breaking bugs at launch which was fixed by patch disks.

It is true to say that none of those early games received any kind of "extended support" like we enjoy today with titles like Elite Dangerous. Older games would have a 2-3 year lifespan until the "next cool thing" came along.

Cheers,

Drew.

Ultimately, I think the difference is marketing and expectation. It wasn't that software was released in a near bug-free state -- in some cases it was better maybe, by virtue of being simpler and produced by smaller teams, but in some cases it was far worse! -- it's that there was less expectation of a fix.

A game like Elite Dangerous release 1.0 would have been considered a feature complete £35 game, and large feature additions like Wings, Planetary Landings etc. would likely have been bundled together in a full-price sequel or two.

Customers would have spent their thirty-odd quid (or less if they waited), enjoyed it or not enjoyed it, maaaybe had a small patch or two for more glaring bugs (just like we do, but harder to get a hold of the patches back then), maybe paid another £15 for a pack adding some new mission types and a couple of new ships, and just sucked it up. Then Elite Dangerous 2 would come out and the cycle would continue.

Widespread internet use and modern games-as-a-service business models allowed Frontier to promise more -- both paid and unpaid -- after launch for Elite Dangerous. Due to these promises, the perception at purchase is your thirty quid is also buying you a not-entirely-concrete idea of future content and improvements, and of course bug-fixes (not including LEPs here, that's a different can of worms). It invites expectations as to what that future content should entail, because you feel you've already bought it, and a feeling of greater investment in improvements being made and bugs being fixed.

In the 90s, bugs were often just as present, just as annoying, but people generally lived with them and worked around them. They became foibles of the game itself. You hoped for a patch, but you didn't get offended and angry about it. Or if you did it was "well, I won't be buying their next game". If you bought a buggy game, you'd bought a buggy game. Like you'd bought a poorly proofread novel or a movie with plot-holes in it.
 
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Jet Set Willy was released in 1983 on cassette for the Zx Spectrum, that famously had game breaking bugs that would corrupt rooms making it near impossible to complete the game. The developers tried to pass of this as a feature, apparently the onscreen corruption in the levels was intended to be 'poisonous gas'.

Eventually they made a U-turn on this and issued a set of commands that had to be entered manually to patch the game (POKES).
 
Jet Set Willy was released in 1983 on cassette for the Zx Spectrum, that famously had game breaking bugs that would corrupt rooms making it near impossible to complete the game. The developers tried to pass of this as a feature, apparently the onscreen corruption in the levels was intended to be 'poisonous gas'.

Eventually they made a U-turn on this and issued a set of commands that had to be entered manually to patch the game (POKES).
A new SpeedRun record for JSW was set only 8 days ago :D 20m43s
Source: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/727269489
 
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