FDevs does everything have to be a grind?

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I just take a sticky-note, write "ELITE" on it, and post it on my monitor over the spot that shows my ratings. It's not quite as rewarding as earning it like everyone else, but at least I didn't have to grind for it

Haha, yeah. It's just a fancy title. I never made Elite in the original neither. Some really feel this is what they need to achieve - I care more for the stuff I can't unlock because of layers of time gates in between.

 

[Vorxian]

Grind isn't a bad thing IF done properly, and immersive.

Example: My 6yr old loves Warcraft, what does she do? She loves hanging about in Elwynn Forest around the cat lady's house. She goes out into the woods, shoots rats, pretends to pick them up, and then runs back to the cat house and pretends to feed the cats (she absolutely adores cats), when I showed her how to purchase a cat for herself she was delighted. And that's what she does, she hangs about at the cat house and spends time with 'her' cats. She loves it.

What she does is a grind.. back and forth, looking for rats, killing them, pretends to pick them up and returns to feed her 'meow meows'. It's not exactly the game play that Blizzard had in mind, i'm sure when they were re-designing the landscapes for Cataclysm, that they may have figured that a little girl out there would stop at level 6 because she loves the cat house too much.

Immersion is the key. She's so immersed in that, she gets home from her school and calls me at work to ask if she can feed her cats (it's sooooooooo cute!).

So why is it, then, that in ED, in an almost infinite Galaxy with infinite scope of infinity, that we can get bored doing the same old circuits, with no love affinity?

The reason is, because immersion is missing. Rocky dusty moons are cool, but, limited in appeal. Now if there was only some way to get out of the pilot seat, and go check out an ancient cave with a mate.... ahhh! Maybe you get a personal plea from a family looking for a missing child in an escape pod.. Something that we can emotionally connect with. Needs character

<immersion> for me: a powerful attachment to something brought about by connecting with what it is you're doing at an emotional level, that makes you feel you're doing something worthwhile, thus the reward is feeling like you achieved something.

TLDR; wall of text... here's a starbucks voucher instead

 

[Arindor]

Scrolling through numerous threads to find an interesting post = grind. Just sayin'.

 

[shadragon]

First off i do love this game. I would love it more though, if everything wasn't a grind.

Please name a game you are still involved with after a year of continuous play that meets your non-grind expectations. How many hours do you have invested in that game? Am curious. I own several hundred computer games and would happily buy something that meets those requirements.

Now don't get me wrong, a game needs longevity and end game goals that take a while to accomplish, like i do believe that you should not be able to get to Elite and King in a month.

There is no end game in Elite. If you are finding it a grind, it's because you are either rushing to advance, or doing one thing over and over again to the point where you are burning yourself out. Either way, you're doing it wrong and killing the inherent longevity you state you want. You say you shouldn't be able to get to Elite or King in a month, OK, what's your system of advancement in game?

Now the first thing people are going to say is "You don't have to grind for anything if you don't want to" to me this is not a good answer, for some people having a Cutter or Experimenting with ship builds is what makes them happy and interested in the game.

Anyone who needs a Cutter to enjoy themselves bought the wrong game. If you can't have fun in a Sidey, you won't enjoy a Cutter. You can experiment with ship builds with thirty'ish ships in game for use in PvP, trading, smuggling, bounty hunting, Thargoid killing, Buckyball racing, etc. So I have no idea what point you are trying to make here.

I play the game and do not do the same thing repeatedly. Last night I did some boom deliveries, pirate killing, skimmer killing, smuggling and a couple of passenger transports. I made about 5-6 million in 1.5 hours roughly, but more importantly, I had fun. I'm 73% toward the next Fed rank and I achieved that just by doing missions for Federation sub-factions at my home base. I'm not trying to advance rank that way, it's just happening. On my other account, I made Empire Viscount rank the same way and it actually surprised me when the notification popped up.

From experience, people who complain about "the grind" usually complain about most things in the game.

 

[Ben Sevil]

Please name a game you are still involved with after a year of continuous play that meets your non-grind expectations. How many hours do you have invested in that game? Am curious. I own several hundred computer games and would happily buy something that meets those requirements.

Crusader Kings 2. 2,500 hours of gameplay.


I agree with your other remarks, except to say that what this game considers variety and what I do are different.

 

[Enderby]

Love CKII!

 

[Jex =TE=]

The issue of grind comes down to how much you enjoy doing the activity, right?

If you were to watch a boring TV show with your partner, you would find it a grind, dull and boring. So to say the game is grindy is YES/NO. It depends on what you enjoy - boring stuff over and over feels like a waste of time. Fun stuff over and over is playing a game.

So why people still argue this when the only person that is right is the opinion holder is beyond me. Grind or fun is down to the individual.

ED has repetitive mechanics, these are as follows

- Mission System (deliver/kill/smuggle(?)/donate)
- Bounty Hunting
- CZ's
- Mining
- Exploring

However, you can do one thing after the other and it's not repetitive. You can choose what you want to do and when you want to do it so you can break up things if you want (do a little mining then go deliver something, etc).

Where ED breaks down for a lot of people is the missions are too RNG and too simple. Once you've done 50 delivery missions, what's left to expect. When you jump into your hundreth CZ, you know exactly what you're going to get. You don't even pay attention to the factions that are fighting.

So once you've done all of these things, the realisation that this is all there is to the game is where people start to feel the grind. I don't think anybody felt the game was grindy at all in the first few hours when we were learning it unless you'd played other similar games. However, after a while you seen it all before and the worst thing about ED in my book is that nothing is new anymore. You've seen it before and you know what to expect - it needs something to keep you guessing.

For me, ED felt just like FE2 did in trading and I was bored after 10 minutes because I did the exact same gameplay in FE2 years earlier except that had ship interdictions so I at least got to fight a little. I ditched my Sidey for an Eagle and spec'd that out for combat and hit a combat zone. That was fun and got me enough and more for my viper and pretty quick too.

Ultimately you have to find what works for you and when it doesn't, you stop playing till they add better stuff.

Ah-ha .. HOUSE !?

I definitely see updates on missions (slated for 3.2 and 3.3, Q2 and Q3 next year I think) will be really helpful to many people but for myself, genuinely - I have more pew-pew fun in my Imperial Eagle than in ANY other ship I reckon .. and it didn't take me long to buy it either. Do I win five pounds?

Eagle has been the most fun ship I've flown in the game

 

[Jex =TE=]

Than you can't complain about grinding, you simply bought the wrong game.
It is grinding because you don't enjoy it. You don't enjoy it because you don't want to play the game but something else. The game was never meant to be focused on PvP and FDEV always made that quite clear.

What? Did you read his reply LOL he said he did the grind to be able to play how he wants so now he IS enjoying it. He DOES want to play the game, he just told you that! What part of his reply don't you get?

The game is "Blaze your own trail" FDev don't support your made up assertion that it wasn't meant to be PVP focused because it's "blaze your OWN trail" and he is - killing commanders in Open, like he just said.

 

[babelfisch]

The issue of grind comes down to how much you enjoy doing the activity, right?

If you were to watch a boring TV show with your partner, you would find it a grind, dull and boring. So to say the game is grindy is YES/NO. It depends on what you enjoy - boring stuff over and over feels like a waste of time. Fun stuff over and over is playing a game.

So why people still argue this when the only person that is right is the opinion holder is beyond me. Grind or fun is down to the individual.

ED has repetitive mechanics, these are as follows

- Mission System (deliver/kill/smuggle(?)/donate)
- Bounty Hunting
- CZ's
- Mining
- Exploring

However, you can do one thing after the other and it's not repetitive. You can choose what you want to do and when you want to do it so you can break up things if you want (do a little mining then go deliver something, etc).

Where ED breaks down for a lot of people is the missions are too RNG and too simple. Once you've done 50 delivery missions, what's left to expect. When you jump into your hundreth CZ, you know exactly what you're going to get. You don't even pay attention to the factions that are fighting.

So once you've done all of these things, the realisation that this is all there is to the game is where people start to feel the grind. I don't think anybody felt the game was grindy at all in the first few hours when we were learning it unless you'd played other similar games. However, after a while you seen it all before and the worst thing about ED in my book is that nothing is new anymore. You've seen it before and you know what to expect - it needs something to keep you guessing.

For me, ED felt just like FE2 did in trading and I was bored after 10 minutes because I did the exact same gameplay in FE2 years earlier except that had ship interdictions so I at least got to fight a little. I ditched my Sidey for an Eagle and spec'd that out for combat and hit a combat zone. That was fun and got me enough and more for my viper and pretty quick too.

Ultimately you have to find what works for you and when it doesn't, you stop playing till they add better stuff.



Eagle has been the most fun ship I've flown in the game

What happened, did someone hit you on your head really hard? This is the second post that makes an awful lot of sense to me!

What? Did you read his reply LOL he said he did the grind to be able to play how he wants so now he IS enjoying it. He DOES want to play the game, he just told you that! What part of his reply don't you get?

The game is "Blaze your own trail" FDev don't support your made up assertion that it wasn't meant to be PVP focused because it's "blaze your OWN trail" and he is - killing commanders in Open, like he just said.

The way I read it is that he still complains about the unnecessary grind he went through before he could finally play the game the way he want.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Actually, it is a simulation, which is playable as a game. It tries to simulate space. So working for stuff, looking for stuff, finding stuff is all in real time. You want a game, play NMS.

Right, because 229,000,000 units to purchase a freighter just falls out of the sky.

220 hours play time, 31,494,686 units to my name.

But I'm in no hurry, it happens when it happens.

Elite is no different - just do the things there are to do and don't micromanage every little nuance and it's a lot more fun.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I'm not sure I agree with this either actually. I know it's what people say - ED is a game game, not a simulator - but I'd say (at present) it's a rudimentary simulation. The whole design ethos is simulation imo, because the galaxy is procedurally generated not scripted. Where ED takes short cuts with the simulation that's generally in places that are complex to simulate .. and to get too far into them at this stage would be a bad priority .. you are though, today, able to play, in the relatively rudimentary simulation. I also say 'relatively' rudimentary, because actually there are a very wide variety of mechanics in the game already.

But PG doesn't have anything to do with simulation. Flight sims typically aren't using PG to generate terrain so I'm not sure what PG has to do with it.

A simulation simulates. ED is set in space, ED does not

- Simulate gravity for orbits around planets
- Did they get rid of slowing down near planets now when you're in SC?
- ED flight model is the anti-sim if anything.
- you can't interact with any big planets or stars
- Where is time relativity.

But most of all

You can't "simulate" a fantasy set a thousand years in the future. ED is a game with some elements that match or approximate real life. ED is not marketed as a galaxy simulator nor is it designed as one, not even close. The recent road map has nothing about adding more "simulation" to the game either.

 

[Jex =TE=]

i agree EDs marketing is less than clear.......
but regarding mmo... ED isnt meant to be an mmo in the general sense.... tho it IS one in the literal sense. the BGS alone is enough to warrant it as an mmo... but from the horses mouth

http://archive.beefjack.com/features/david-braben-elite-dangerous-interview/2/index.html

It’s not [like EVE online]. One of the things I’ve done today is to put a load more stuff on the FAQ explaining how it’s different and how, in some ways, it’s an MMO, because we expect a massive number of players to play it. But in most ways that people will judge it, Elite: Dangerous is not an MMO.

You can save, you can load, you can reload your position. All of these things are not MMO-style things. You can choose who you are playing with, so you can create groups.

I would say Elite is an optionally multiplayer space adventure game sat on top of the MMO part which is the BGS...... but again that is just me putting my slant on it.

wow really?

in some ways, it’s an MMO, because we expect a massive number of players to play it.

so every game in existence is now an MMO using this definiation!

In SOME ways it's an MMO - well when you can just make stuff up and have a portion of the player base just go with it because you're making the game who needs actual definitions.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Two minutes of mining is enough to make anyone run away screaming.

Same as trading! LOL

 

[Dutchman141]

I wouldn't call it a grind personally, monotonous gameplay in some occasions definitely.

It's the repetitive way of reaching a certain goal that's making it look like a grind, when you're able to mix the monotonous gameplay with things you like to do then it's not that bad.
I get the OP though, there is a lot of monotonous gameplay in ED at the moment.
The CGs are a gamekiller to me personally, they realy become a drag and although I would realy like to participate in the development of Eagis equipment I'm avoiding the CGs as the plague atm.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

wow really?



so every game in existence is now an MMO using this definiation!

In SOME ways it's an MMO - well when you can just make stuff up and have a portion of the player base just go with it because you're making the game who needs actual definitions.

according to the blurb WOT and Warthunder are MMOs... I would say ED is more of an MMO than them.

look at the BGS, at a very literal sense how is it NOT an mmo ... which is not to say its a good mmo or that it is the kind of thing many expect from an mmo.

me personally i love it and want to play it more than any other "general" mmo in existance.

but that said i am not sure of your point... it seems to be you AGREE with David Braben... ie

" But in most ways that people will judge it, Elite: Dangerous is not an MMO."

of course from a marketing point of view, like i said, when WarThunder is successfully marketed as an mmo (where as i would say its a multiplayer Arena Shooter) it would be naive to expect FD to NOT market ED as one.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I wouldn't call it a grind personally, monotonous gameplay in some occasions definitely.

It's the repetitive way of reaching a certain goal that's making it look like a grind, when you're able to mix the monotonous gameplay with things you like to do then it's not that bad.
I get the OP though, there is a lot of monotonous gameplay in ED at the moment.
The CGs are a gamekiller to me personally, they realy become a drag and although I would realy like to participate in the development of Eagis equipment I'm avoiding the CGs as the plague atm.

What would make CGs interesting for you? I don't play much of CGs neither, but for different reasons than you I suspect. I really care less about monetary rewards.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Not really. It seems to me that you do not even know what grind is. You seem to think that if you do an activity more than once it equates to a grind. Sorry but it does not.

What does equate to a grind is doing the same activity in the same way again and again and again in a row, to get to your goal. For example LOTRO, when you level up, the only option is to fight mobs, you quickly work out the most efficient way of killing a mob and do the same thing again and again and again until you get to the next level. And you need to get to the next level to go to the next part of the game, there are no choices it is just forced progression.

That is grind.

Of course you can do that in ED, like doing the same trade run continously to get credit for the next ship, but that is a choice you have chosen to do. The game doesn't force you down that path as there are no traditional levels, none of the ships are needed, you may want them but how you go about getting them is down to you, you chose the path/journey.

In ED there is no forced progression, progression it all on you, not the game.

In that way it differs from an MMO but then ED isn't an MMO. I played Black Desert and seriously, killing mobs is about the most boring thing you can do but you can go fishing as well or you can start trading but if you want to fight, grind you must do. ED still has a grind if you find the gameplay boring but you have a goal to reach which is PVP. ED has shallow game mechanics that aren't much fun - there is where your grind comes in for those people that find shallow repetitive games grindy - like I said in my post above though.

 

[shadragon]

Crusader Kings 2. 2,500 hours of gameplay.


I agree with your other remarks, except to say that what this game considers variety and what I do are different.

Will check it out. Thanks.

 

[Jex =TE=]

What happened, did someone hit you on your head really hard? This is the second post that makes an awful lot of sense to me!



The way I read it is that he still complains about the unnecessary grind he went through before he could finally play the game the way he want.

OK then your reply didn't say that at all (and I'm the one not making sense...ohh la la lol). What's wrong with complaining about a crap part of the game? If he was complaining about unneccessary grind, why tell him to play something else - that doesn't make sense lol

(Maybe it's a language barrier thing here - I assume people always speak English as their first language but it's possibly you're in Europe mainland or somewhere else?)

 

[VonBlade]

It tries to simulate space.

Oh so that's why my ship slows down for no reason. Or my kinetic weapons have distance damage fall off. Or why it's impossible to get into orbit. Or why I can't land on certain planets. Or..

well you get the idea.