Newcomer / Intro FDL vs Clipper for Combat (with numbers this time)

Xavi Mendoza

Xavi Mendoza
I have read billions of "FDL vs Clipper" topics and everyone said "Clipper is a gorgeous cheap multipurpose ship but FDL is a clear choice for combat bla bla" than
decided to work on theory and numbers. I made two different combat builds, one of them is close to my current FDL (just a bit over engineered) and other one is a combat Clipper.

I'm not trying to prove one ship better than other but trying to understand do I miss something or something's wrong or damn what's happening here?? [where is it]

Please look at my two builds.


FDL : https://eddp.co/u/DQEeLNY3

Clipper : https://eddp.co/u/4KTpjAuw


You can find some numbers for them;


Ships : FDL / Clipper
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Cost : 203.6M CR / 130.8M CR
Insurance : 10.1M CR / 6.5M CR

Speed : 408 m/s / 477 m/s
Boost : 549 m/s / 604 m/s

Jump Range : 16.78 LY / 22.17 LY
Range : 47.89 LY / 78.61 LY

Shield Resistance (Thermal) : 9,766 HP / 12,680 HP :O

Shield Recovery : 1:32 / 0:48 [blah]
Shield Recharge : 2:30 / 0:38 :eek:

Armor Resistance (Kinetic) : 1,483 HP / 4,203 HP :S

Turn Rates (x/y/z degree/sec) : 17/55/130 / 23/51/102

DPS : 95.9 / 102.6 (I know, this part may change with weapon types)
 
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Chris Simon

Chris Simon
Clipper is by far superior to FdL in almost all aspects. (She's my personal favourite medium interceptor)
almost all aspects but one - weapons. You can't put fixed weaponry on a Clipper, which:
1) reduces the DPS from the get-go
2) makes her frustrating to fight in when chaff and stealth is involved (PvP)

Fortunately I don't do PvP so I can love Clipper. But everyone who takes combat seriously will choose FdL for her superior weapon convergence.
 

Para Handy

Para Handy
Chris Simon said:
As long as your opponents don't spam heat sinks and chaff, the Clipper is definitely much more comfortable to fight in. It's highly subjective, of course. :)
Click to expand...

... and at least it doesn't have the stupid nose blocking the forward view that it's smaller counterparts suffer from.

Clipper cockpit (not my video):

[video=youtube;2IQhN-SfyyY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IQhN-SfyyY[/video]


[alien]
 

Darty

Darty
I don't know how coriolis calculates shield strength, but they are wrong however it is. The numbers just don't come anywhere close to matching reality.
 

Nero Tacitus

Nero Tacitus
I was surprised by your numbers, so I mocked up A Grades of both in EDSY. My outcome was substantially different:

-With Mil Comps, Prismatics, and PAs; an A Grade FDL costs 152mil, Clipper 174mil.
-FDL has much better passive shielding (more than twice the Clipper's) and slightly better overall shielding (~15% better).
-With all PAs, Clipper DPS caps out at 90, while FDL caps out at 110 DPS.
-Clipper is faster on 4 PIPs or Boost, but FDL is the same at 2 PIPs and faster at 0 (drag munitions).
-Clipper weighs almost twice as much as the FDL and, having flown both, I can tell you the Clipper drifts much more than the FDL.
-Their pitch/roll speeds are similar, but the Clipper's yaw is dreadful.

Can't comment on what's going on with Coriolis, I don't use it (partly because I hate the interface, but mostly because it's just wrong half the time).

If we're going to talk about which is better, it's clearly the FDL, since of the two of them it's the only one that doesn't come with a complimentary hornet's nest in the cockpit.
 

Darty

Darty
Robin of Spiritwood said:
Hmm.

Are they doing a calculation of "effective megajoules" by factoring in resistances?
Click to expand...

A unmodded biweave on a clipper gives 252 MJ of shields. The absolute HP coriolis gives said build is 4,444 without any pips in sys and 7411 with 4 pips.

There is no way that 252 MJ of shields is going to equal 4,444 absolute strength. Its just plain wrong.
 

Chris Simon

Chris Simon
Darty said:
A unmodded biweave on a clipper gives 252 MJ of shields. The absolute HP coriolis gives said build is 4,444 without any pips in sys and 7411 with 4 pips.

There is no way that 252 MJ of shields is going to equal 4,444 absolute strength. Its just plain wrong.
Click to expand...

Of course there is.
"Absolute HP" means Shields PLUS hull strength and it counts in resistances. For example 2200 hull HP + 252 shield hp is 2452 absolute HP. With 50% resistance that means 4904 absolute HP.
 

Ashy Raven

A
Coriolis count the SCB into the total shield HP and because of Clipper have a much larger SCB so she will got a much higher total shield HP in this case.
But...hey, your Clipper have only 244MJ max shield and the 6A SCB you choose will restore 417MJ per shot. So you will got youself over healing in this case.
 

wrmiller

W
I know that armchair combat/spreadsheet flying appears quite popular here, but how about getting someone to build the FDL, you build the clipper, and go have at it.

Of course the outcome won't match your numbers because of unquantified variables like pilot skill, ship agility, speed, etc., but then spreadsheet flying has never been totally accurate when compared to reality. :)

But at least you can have more fun doing real world testing. :)
 
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Rob_the_Sparky

R
I agree with the above, I used to do quite a bit of spreadsheet work before buying a new ship (when it was a big event) and the reality of flying something is not always obvious from the spreadsheets. It is a good way of doing some initial checks but flying a ship should not be underestimated.
 
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