FD's lack of faith in developing VR for new headsets is disturbing.

[The Lawful]

Hm. VR is niche and will stay so, and economically, it will never really make sense for FD to invest development resources on it that could better be used elsewhere. Luckily, they did so anyway in the beginning, and the game is still marketed in Steam and Oculus store as supporting it. It was really disturbing though seeing any mention of VR (and 4k) or Oculus store being completely removed from the new ED site some time ago, so the writing is on the wall. On the other hand, there is a dedicated tutorial entry exclusively for VR that IIRC has not been there forever. But that is about all I guess. Currently, the game runs basically nice, but on the other hand, they obviously don't even care about the Sleepy Hollow thing in Holo Me that was introduced in September and should be trivial to fix, it only appears in some of the ships anyway. Don't know if they have any VR-capable staff at all todays, those are rare unicorns anyway and they don't look for such devs even. And the 2020 update will bring new challenges to VR support when it comes to FP things on planetary installations and such. Looks not good, I'd say. But not all hope is lost yet. Don't know what I would do when being forced back to pancake, possibly say goodbye, but who knows. Don't want to imagine that yet, have been playing 100% VR for nearly three years now

But then, there are other games as well, like DCS or IL-2 and such. In DCS, you can walk around on the surface after ejecting in VR, but bring a bucket unless you are really hard-boiled. The SRV is pale in comparison

O7,

 

[aXeL]

I'm going to challenge you on that sir, insofar as the accelerating growth of both sales and vendors growth in both numbers and product range for the last 4 years consecutively, do not support your posit that VR will remain niche. Three years ago I would have wholeheartedly agreed but now there is a far higher probability that VR will become ubiquitous - just like dual GPU did ...oh wait

That said, mobile phones were niche for circa twenty years so it could take awhile.

 

[The Lawful]

I'm going to challenge you on that sir, insofar as the accelerating growth of both sales and vendors growth in both numbers and product range for the last 4 years consecutively, do not support your posit that VR will remain niche. Three years ago I would have wholeheartedly agreed but now there is a far higher probability that VR will become ubiquitous - just like dual GPU did ...oh wait

That said, mobile phones were niche for circa twenty years so it could take awhile.

Some people who should know the business better than me disagree too unfortunately, even in the light of Alyx.

Spoiler

So, of course, we've seen the Half-Life PR announcement. I think it was a surprise for everybody, but I think not in a way you are suggesting. VR remains an extremely nichey niche of the market, like, it's very, very small. The only reason I can think of why Valve has decided to actually put this title in the market is because they actually have a cooperation on the hardware side of the things, and I assume that they actually are planning -- this is probably a big effort for them to sort of try to expand that niche. That niche is very, very, very -- and I could add a few verys here, small. So from the market perspective, are we afraid? No, because it's a very different niche. It's -- this is an endeavor to, sort of, try to push the hardware while we are really targeting the mass markets where it is, which is major consoles and the PCs without the need to have the VR gear. Now I am actually unaware in our conversations with other major publishers of really pushing hard for VR but perhaps these information have missed me. I genuinely don't know. I mean, I know there's a few titles here and there that usually are some sort of showcase or experience, but I have not heard of anybody building an actual solid business on the VR so far. That may very well change in the coming years. Perhaps Half-Life will be this first stone that is going to turn into something larger as we go but that's definitely not going to be the case come first half of the next year. I daresay, it's probably not going to be next year. Even -- I don't eventually know even further because things may change. And at some point, VR may be a mass-market entertainment that will validate the business model behind it but it is not the case, at least not for us, right now.

-- Adam Michal Kicinski, CD Projekt S.A. - Joint CEO & President of the Management Board [30] , Nov 22th.

Edited Transcript of CDR.WA earnings conference call or presentation 22-Nov-19 9:00am GMT

Q3 2019 CD Projekt SA Earnings Call

finance.yahoo.com

O7,

 

[Old Duck]

Well I'm getting a VR in just a couple of days!

 

[sewerratuk]

Well I'm getting a VR in just a couple of days!

I got the rift s the other month after having the cv1. It will blow you away. Enjoy

Oh and thanks for the heads up on the steam sale of Skyrim

 

[aXeL]

Some people who should know the business better than me disagree too unfortunately, even in the light of Alyx.

Spoiler

So, of course, we've seen the Half-Life PR announcement. I think it was a surprise for everybody, but I think not in a way you are suggesting. VR remains an extremely nichey niche of the market, like, it's very, very small. The only reason I can think of why Valve has decided to actually put this title in the market is because they actually have a cooperation on the hardware side of the things, and I assume that they actually are planning -- this is probably a big effort for them to sort of try to expand that niche. That niche is very, very, very -- and I could add a few verys here, small. So from the market perspective, are we afraid? No, because it's a very different niche. It's -- this is an endeavor to, sort of, try to push the hardware while we are really targeting the mass markets where it is, which is major consoles and the PCs without the need to have the VR gear. Now I am actually unaware in our conversations with other major publishers of really pushing hard for VR but perhaps these information have missed me. I genuinely don't know. I mean, I know there's a few titles here and there that usually are some sort of showcase or experience, but I have not heard of anybody building an actual solid business on the VR so far. That may very well change in the coming years. Perhaps Half-Life will be this first stone that is going to turn into something larger as we go but that's definitely not going to be the case come first half of the next year. I daresay, it's probably not going to be next year. Even -- I don't eventually know even further because things may change. And at some point, VR may be a mass-market entertainment that will validate the business model behind it but it is not the case, at least not for us, right now.

-- Adam Michal Kicinski, CD Projekt S.A. - Joint CEO & President of the Management Board [30] , Nov 22th.

Edited Transcript of CDR.WA earnings conference call or presentation 22-Nov-19 9:00am GMT

Q3 2019 CD Projekt SA Earnings Call

finance.yahoo.com

O7,

Michal Andrzej Nowakowski makes no reference to VR sales or growth in any section of the report and readily admits he's not done his homework on the vendors ( sections 28 - 30 ). Not sure about the relevance of this citation. Doesn't contradict my surmise.

 

[The Lawful]

I got the rift s the other month after having the cv1. It will blow you away. Enjoy

Oh and thanks for the heads up on the steam sale of Skyrim

So then I need a Rift S too before it's too late. Unfortunately, the CV1 is so sturdy I cannot convince my wife atm.

O7,

 

[aXeL]

I got the rift s the other month after having the cv1. It will blow you away. Enjoy

Oh and thanks for the heads up on the steam sale of Skyrim

SkyrimVR is great. Just be warned, there are a few mods in there that can slideshow the VR version sometimes. Birds of Skyrim and Diverse Dragons I think.

 

[sewerratuk]

So then I need a Rift S too before it's too late. Unfortunately, the CV1 is so sturdy I cannot convince my wife atm.

O7,

Do it. Although the stats are marginal the difference in pretty damn good. Plus, the CV1 still has reasonable resale value so that’s even more discount on top of Black Friday

Also no more lighthouses

 

[amadeus1171]

VR is ditching support for people with high IPD's. Only the Vive Pro and Pimax still support higher IPD. The newer headsets only support IPD's up to 70/72.

It is quite disappointing.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

In DCS, you can walk around on the surface after ejecting in VR, but bring a bucket unless you are really hard-boiled

There's a keybind buried down in settings which disables the horrible head bobbing. It's a pity we cannot exit the plane after normal landing

Michal Andrzej Nowakowski makes no reference to VR sales or growth in any section of the report and readily admits he's not done his homework on the vendors ( sections 28 - 30 ). Not sure about the relevance of this citation. Doesn't contradict my surmise.

CDPR are known VR sceptics, sadly. VR needs big game pioneers and titles, like the new Half-life game. Too bad CDPR won't incorporate VR in cyberpunk, that game would be perfect in VR.

Also no more lighthouses

That's actually a minus, not a plus wrt tracking quality and occlusion.

 

[Slowfiddler]

Some kind of statement from FDev about their VR intentions would be nice. I would rather take a huge disappointment hit now than spend the next 12 months wondering if it is worth my upgrading the CV1 to an S.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

if it is worth my upgrading the CV1 to an S

From all the reviews around it seems that it is. However Quest with the Link function can change this forever.
PS: Even for Elite-only, the difference in clarity should be noticeable.

 

[Arioch]

From all the reviews around it seems that it is. However Quest with the Link function can change this forever.
PS: Even for Elite-only, the difference in clarity should be noticeable.

Having tried the Quest Link, it’s not that much of a step up from the Rift (if at all) - I found it to be a very similar experience, visuals-wise. Even though it’s a higher resolution screen, I think there must be something going on to enable it to work with USB 3. I’ll be interested to see if later software revisions or the optical cable coming from Oculus next year will change the clarity at all.

The Rift S is a very noticeable increase in clarity from the Rift.

 

[jojon]

I can, by the way, confirm that the same thing happens with the Valve index, as with the Pimax 8k/5k, (and remains in current beta), where you get different tone mapping in the left and right eye, when you have a bright light source to your side, with one eye being on either side of the "dim the lighting now please" threshold (the effect is particularly evident on the FSS overlay).

The effect is not as strong, which I'll assume is down to the index having only 5° canted screens, compared to the 10° of the pimaxes, but in both cases, it happens despite the use of "parallel projections" mode.

 

[Old Duck]

Having tried the Quest Link, it’s not that much of a step up from the Rift (if at all) - I found it to be a very similar experience, visuals-wise. Even though it’s a higher resolution screen, I think there must be something going on to enable it to work with USB 3. I’ll be interested to see if later software revisions or the optical cable coming from Oculus next year will change the clarity at all.

The Rift S is a very noticeable increase in clarity from the Rift.

I know OLED looks better than LCD, but I've had bad luck with dead pixels on OLED screens - both phones and my PSVR (which I returned for this very reason). Ironically this is one of the reasons I chose the S over the Quest, as I prefer the longevity of LCD, even if blacks aren't truly black.

Speaking of, does the Rift S have a brightness control? I have found that's my #1 tool in fighting things like edge bleed on my LCD monitors. I've got good night vision still, so I can see dimmer displays just fine.

 

[Spruxxx]

The Pimax fans will hate me for saying this ( and I wanted an 8K X - until I read this thread ) but I think it's time for Pimax to wake up and smell the coffee on standards and get behind WMR certification like the big OEM vendors ( or did Pimax already do so? WMR didn't exist when I had my Pimax 4k so I wouldn't know but I'm assuming not ). They're not going to out compete Oculus or Valve, the companies are too well positioned already, nor do these two have any reason to license their standards to Pimax. However WMR is already native to Windows, plays well with SteamVR and MS will happily certify OEMs and it's strategic security of revenue for Pimax, having the best and broadest headset range in the market. Otherwise I'm certain they will be the next Blackberry.

Mmmm sorry to say having gone from WMR to SteamVR I'm thinking the opposite, I'm worried that MS have lost interest in pushing the standard and it's now WMR that might die in the long run, unless individual manufacturers properly push forward. So far, lenses and especially controllers are deeply unsatisfactory and I couldn't go back without some major innovations. 2 camera inside out tracking is just too poor now except for seated / sims, Rift S chose 5 cameras for a reason. Samsung did try to push beyond the standard spec, but Index controllers comprehensively blow the 1st gen WMR kit out of the water for me. Samsung have some new headsets in the works, we'll see. For now, the best home tracking remains lighthouse based, and yes an extra cost but I bought a second hand v1 cheap on ebay and no problems at all.

MS haven't filled me with confidence by recently deciding that Xbox won't get VR support, despite PSVR doing really well. Strange that one ecosystem isn't used to support the other, I would have thought it technically feasible, but maybe other factors R&D cost etc. Then again, low latency VR direct over cloud gaming services has been demonstrated, so perhaps the era of us all having high end gaming hardware at home is on the way out...

Pimax should do all right on headset sales in the long run IF they stick to high quality production standards on everything (still waiting on that one), but platform-wise, being SteamVR and compatible with Steam and Oculus stores is a big bonus. Just grabbed Lone Echo on discount and looking forward to finally checking it out.

 

[Stigbob]

I'm going to challenge you on that sir, insofar as the accelerating growth of both sales and vendors growth in both numbers and product range for the last 4 years consecutively, do not support your posit that VR will remain niche. Three years ago I would have wholeheartedly agreed but now there is a far higher probability that VR will become ubiquitous - just like dual GPU did ...oh wait

That said, mobile phones were niche for circa twenty years so it could take awhile.

Exactly, think 80's mobile phones that's how we'll see current VR stuff a decade from now. Once it gets much cheaper, lighter and more comfy and one or two brands dominate the market then it'll go mainstream. It'll probably also get much more compatible.

Flexible screens are one of the big new things everyone's getting excited about, I'd imagine VR of the future will be much more like cycling glasses than head mounted shoeboxes.

Having said that 3D TV/cinema has tried and failed four times now.

 

[Arioch]

...Speaking of, does the Rift S have a brightness control? I have found that's my #1 tool in fighting things like edge bleed on my LCD monitors. I've got good night vision still, so I can see dimmer displays just fine.

As far as I'm aware, brightness is down to individual games. For Elite I knocked down the gamma setting towards the bottom but increased the HUD brightness settings a few notches - I found this helped compensate for the loss of deep blacks and colour intensity when switching from the Rift CV1.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Some kind of statement from FDev about their VR intentions would be nice. I would rather take a huge disappointment hit now than spend the next 12 months wondering if it is worth my upgrading the CV1 to an S.

Oh but they did, in January Beta announcement:

We also wanted to give you an update on the following issue: VR: Double Vision and Incorrect Rendering on HMDs with Non-Parallel Displays (ex. Pimax). At the current time, there are no plans to provide support for new HMDs outside the officially supported systems and platforms. The officially supported platforms are Valve Index, HTC Vive and Oculus.

IDK if that "Oculus" means the general Rift family or only the CV1 though, it's something you'd need to drill down with support.