Feedback from CMDR creator tool (The i am hologram, lore explanation and its placement on UI)
- Thread starter Thetele
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Elite's worldbuilding and lore serves entirely to facilitate fun game design. Like all the lore is about the game, it's not like a Star Wars where the game has to follow the world's lore.
Instant information transfer is straight up "a thing" in Elite, and so it is also a thing in the lore. If a thing happens in the game, then that's how it works in the game.
For whatever reasons, the Pilot's Federation may or may not allow something. Nobody can go to certain systems right now, it's quite certain the Pilot's Federation doesn't want us going those places. When they change their mind, they will flip a switch, and those systems will become valid targets for navigation. Explorers all the way at Beagle Point will suddenly have an update on their ship computer that lets them navigate to those systems.
This isn't a glaring problem where the game isn't following the lore, it is literally how the game and the lore work. In fact, what would be inconsistent with the lore is if it didn't work that way, given what we know, from the canon, since 1984, about how the Pilot's Federation works.
I see what you're saying and I agree with you that any fiction suffers when you just handwave away inconsistent details, when protagonists get plot armor, or so on. But with games, sometimes we have to make adjustments for gameplay (your capsule instantly transporting back to your last station), and sometimes whatever the experience is in the game, that is actually the lore. Elite is this last one. The evidence that instant data transfer is a "thing" in the Elite galaxy is that everything in the Elite galaxy works that way.
The problem here is not that game mechanics are inconsistent with game lore, it's that people apparently have some problem with the game's lore and, because previous Elite titles were not as fully fleshed out as Elite: Dangerous, they are only just now realizing it.
Put plainly: if you don't like instant transmission of data and holographic telepresence, the problem is not that the game is not consistent with the game's lore, the problem is that you don't like the game's lore. That's fine, but you shouldn't be trying to mandate that Frontier retcon things that have been more or less established as canon for 33 years just because you would prefer to be playing something else.
Well... so multicrew is advertised as such as that "you now can play together with your friends (on the same ship)". Turns out you cant, cause they are just holograms (I dont get even into the question of how a hologram can physically interact with a ship). They are not "really" there. But wait, in comparison we have wings, there you can play together, you are really at the same time in the same space (just the hull of your ships between you.. ).. thats the real thing. Basically FD advertised something and then sabotaged their marketing strategy by introducing telepresence. 
//sarcasm off// seriously - if you have to have instant cmdr teleportation, PLEASE just exclude it completely from the lore.. you only create more confusion.
//sarcasm off// seriously - if you have to have instant cmdr teleportation, PLEASE just exclude it completely from the lore.. you only create more confusion.
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The comprehension level of this forum has reached a new low! 14 pages when the original question was answered on the first page! HALP
Well... so multicrew is advertised as such as that "you now can play together with your friends (on the same ship)". Turns out you cant, cause they are just holograms (I dont get even into the question of how a hologram can physically interact with a ship). They are not "really" there. But wait, in comparison we have wings, there you can play together, you are really at the same time in the same space (just the hull of your ships between you.. ).. thats the real thing. Basically FD advertised something and then sabotaged their marketing strategy with telepresence.
Too bad there's no way to play without friends without being in the same place. Maybe over a network of computers or something to simulate their presence. That makes a lot more sense than advocating for a LAN party to play Elite: Dangerous. I think other people covered the lore more than enough (citing canon sources, even) so I'm gonna leave that one along as an exercise to the (re)reader.
Heheh. There there, don't worry .. you're a spaceman really [up] [up] [up]
Only thing I don't agree is your hologram being able to phyically manipulate anything. In my small mind, you sit in your cockpit chair and move the joystick (in reaction to and watching your Remlock camera feed from the remote cam) .. the joystick inputs are sent to (and mirrored by joystick servos at the remote station) and then the Holo-Me system interprets and animates a holographic projection of your face on a body, in effort to make it look lifelike and to stop the other crew from going insane through space loneliness.
We'll see of course .. and though for some (mentioning no names) it may already be too late!
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It seems there are issues here which concern some people
Did I already say that I like the quality of the cmdrs heads? Great work FD!
Thank goodness you're keeping a level head over this.
It's this thing.
Remember when you holopresence into a place, you are simulating reality completely. You feel the stick move and so on when you are flying, say, and SLF, and it's like you're actually flying it. Your ship simulates the stick movements and so on, so others who are watching (both physically [Helmsman] and via holopresence [other CMDR crewmembers]) can see what you're doing and viceversa. After all, completely immersive simulated reality is A Thing, and the ship facilitates this.
When you're in your SLF if you look down you see your own body and so on because the act of using this perfectly complete simulated reality does that for you.
When you change your space clothes and you look down at your body, you see the changes having happened because your ship is now fully projecting your new holographic format. Your actual spacesuit doesn't change colors, but the ship projects as if it has. Physical changes to your face (that other, telepresent CMDRs) can see happen instantly because that's what the holoprojection communicates to them.
Consider your third person camera to be seeing not what is actually there, but the raw informational holographic data of the ship. That is what you are seeing. That is why you can change your appearance at will in the seat. You cannot see your own face from a 3PV in real life, you know? When you change your Holo-Me appearance you are changing what other CMDRs (telepresently) will see, and you're changing what the 3PV camera (holographically projected) would see.
It's all a simulation except the CMDR sitting in the chair in the Helm, and that is "real" because the Pilot's Federation more or less requires it.
In short: it's all good and very lore appropriate and consistent. Unfortunately, being consistent with the Elite canon has never been something a lot of people were interested in, which is why we end up with people talking about shortwave radios and bandwidth when instant data transfer is just straight up part of this game universe.
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It seems there are issues here which concern some people
Did I already say that I like the quality of the cmdrs heads? Great work FD!
Yeah I will say they are absolutely fantastic, way higher quality than I expected and they managed to make the whole thing much more compelling than I'd initially thought it would be. The animations on those faces, the fact that they blinked and had tics and looked around, it was all very, very impressive.
Yep. Here's one, which do you prefer?
Remlock Camera and Visor VR .. or .. Brain Implant (reading/ writing cognitive signals direct to your cerebellum?)
I think the latter would have to be 'old' (reptilian) brain connected, for the 'twitch' motor function ie. your higher functioning (new, recently evolved brain) 'thoughts' are not important to ship control. Eyesight is old brain too, Broca Area, speech function is as yet unknown. I think it might take some practice 'to drive' .. otherwise your hologram might keep hitting itself in the face, conpletely out of control.
tldr; it must be brain implant (for your camera feed) surely, otherwise you'd see your Remlock come down?
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My understanding is that it's all holographic "real space" representation and not like, special visors or whatnot. A lot of things are projected onto backdrops, which is why you lose HUD when your canopy glass blows, but you can still see orbit lines and so on where the glass is intact. No need technically for brain implants at all.
As for not seeing the helmet when the glass blows, supposedly it's just kind of a clear forcefieldy thing? We haven't seen them in the game yet, so we don't have any information about them other than "they are helmets that kinda show up at the right time" haha
As for not seeing the helmet when the glass blows, supposedly it's just kind of a clear forcefieldy thing? We haven't seen them in the game yet, so we don't have any information about them other than "they are helmets that kinda show up at the right time" haha
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
Do we know if static avatars such as mission givers get a real head in 2.3? I know its coming but dunno if its 2.3 or not
Thanks
Thanks
here's the thing with lore of the game not fitting my vision of things. I can ignore the lore put forward by FD and make up my own. I do think the whole hologram thing is stupid. Solution? There's no holograms. There. Easy. Fixed the issue. Now everything's good.
I spend a lot of my time playing games fixing troublesome lore or story elements with the power of my imagination. The same one game designers and writers use and i'm no stupider than they are. You should try it.
I spend a lot of my time playing games fixing troublesome lore or story elements with the power of my imagination. The same one game designers and writers use and i'm no stupider than they are. You should try it.
^ This.
Why all the fuss about something that should be a basic option in the main game?
Eventhough it is sold as a feature of season 2, it's just an avatar creator...
SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET
This statement is incorrect. In the real world, you cannot use quantum entanglement or anything related to it to transmit information faster than light. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light#Quantum_mechanics .
A quantum entanglement experiment typically starts with a particle or state are in superposition. The state is then spread out over a large distance (at slower than or equal to light speed). However, the superposition still exists. That means that if you measure one end, you entangle the MEASURER with the superposition and the measurer becomes superposed as well. Each "version" of the measurer will think it measured something and that its measurement correlated with the other end, but no information has actually been transmitted.
This statement is incorrect. In the real world, you cannot use quantum entanglement or anything related to it to transmit information faster than light. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light#Quantum_mechanics .
A quantum entanglement experiment typically starts with a particle or state are in superposition. The state is then spread out over a large distance (at slower than or equal to light speed). However, the superposition still exists. That means that if you measure one end, you entangle the MEASURER with the superposition and the measurer becomes superposed as well. Each "version" of the measurer will think it measured something and that its measurement correlated with the other end, but no information has actually been transmitted.
To be fair to FD, they have only done 1 livestream so far and there is a lot more coming in 2.3 (including Multi-Crew). I'd be careful about making those kinds of judgements until we see a fuller picture.
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