Feedback from CMDR creator tool (The i am hologram, lore explanation and its placement on UI)

[Winterwalker]

You're saying a faction would hamstring itself by not using such a great technology. Cartographics getting real time updates on discovered systems. Man that is crazy. It doesn't make any sense what so ever.

Please use some logic.

And you are still desperately trying to defend it for no reason at all when there are far better ways to implement it. Why?

Well for a start it's part of the game that scanning bodies is not enough. You have to hand the data over, or where's the risk in exploring?

All I'm saying otherwise, is that no authority given half a chance would allow any old person to go leafing through it's records, or pay money out, without using red tape wherever it can to avoid having to pay you at all.

 

[Carroway]

You're saying a faction would hamstring itself by not using such a great technology. Cartographics getting real time updates on discovered systems. Man that is crazy. It doesn't make any sense what so ever.

Please use some logic.

And you are still desperately trying to defend it for no reason at all when there are far better ways to implement it. Why?

In a world that is steeped in corporate catering, where political and corporate interests overlap, you can bet that there are technologies that are patented and closely guarded secrets. While we are part of a very exclusive Federation of Pilots, that has a massive news network and probably connections far and wide in order to keep itself politically neutral. You could argue, that they do not allow other factions to use a certain technology.

Same is true for the federation of the Imperials. If they found such a great technology, they would only share it with their most trusted pilots and subjects.

Now if you think that is a 'crazy' argument, then you should try and read, what goes on right now, in our time. Patent loitering and patent obstructionism is a very real, and frustrating thing that basically hamstrings other corporations from using a specfic device or utility.

The entire Background of Elite is based on the fact that corporations became as powerful as nation states, so you bet your that there are regulations and rules in place to stop the sharing of technology. Especially from the Pilots Federation, an organisation known to be elusive and coy with their technology and political dealings. Because you can't see the logic in something, does not make it implausible, it just means that it doesn't make sense to you.

So as a counter to your "Please use some logic" which only serves to belittle and antaganize someone, "Please use some real-world logic"


I agree that the holo-me is a rather cheap work-around. It is a compromise that exists until space legs are actually implemented, because it the feature would only be hamstrung by it's dedication to a system that hasn't even been implemented yet.

This discussion and line of thinking is more important, when we actually get Space legs, but for now this entire discussion is a moot point.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Well for a start it's part of the game that scanning bodies is not enough. You have to hand the data over, otherwise where's the risk in exploring?

All I'm saying otherwise is that no authority given half a chance would allow any old person to go leafing through it's records, or pay money out, without using red tape wherever it can to avoid having to pay you at all.

Why would anyone be leafing through their records by using telepresence? Sorry doesn't make any kind of sense. Even today we can pay for stuff without seeing them, are you saying that technology has taken a step back from today in a 1000 years.

No I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense at all. The bits I can gloss over are the cartographics and the combat bonds and the bounty hunting other wise yes it would be risk free and which isn't good.

I still believe the best way would be to have a seperate multicrew commander which you use for instant multicrew, gets a combat rank to show how experienced they are, but you don't get any benefits or drawbacks. You can also join at a station by being at the same station and you get all the benefits and drawbacks of multicrew, if you want to leave you eject in an escape pod and you are back at the station. To me that is a far better system. Doesn't tread over lore, gets ready for when we can actually walk around and board other ships. We also get the instant multicrew for people who want it but you pay a price without the effort of actually meeting up at a station.

I really couldn't see how difficult that would be to implement.

Also gives you an opportunity to use the fantastic commander creator twice.

- - - Updated - - -

In a world that is steeped in corporate catering, where political and corporate interests overlap, you can bet that there are technologies that are patented and closely guarded secrets. While we are part of a very exclusive Federation of Pilots, that has a massive news network and probably connections far and wide in order to keep itself politically neutral. You could argue, that they do not allow other factions to use a certain technology.

Same is true for the federation of the Imperials. If they found such a great technology, they would only share it with their most trusted pilots and subjects.

Now if you think that is a 'crazy' argument, then you should try and read, what goes on right now, in our time. Patent loitering and patent obstructionism is a very real, and frustrating thing that basically hamstrings other corporations from using a specfic device or utility.

The entire Background of Elite is based on the fact that corporations became as powerful as nation states, so you bet your that there are regulations and rules in place to stop the sharing of technology. Especially from the Pilots Federation, an organisation known to be elusive and coy with their technology and political dealings. Because you can't see the logic in something, does not make it implausible, it just means that it doesn't make sense to you.

So as a counter to your "Please use some logic" which only serves to belittle and antaganize someone, "Please use some real-world logic"


I agree that the holo-me is a rather cheap work-around. It is a compromise that exists until space legs are actually implemented, because it the feature would only be hamstrung by it's dedication to a system that hasn't even been implemented yet.

This discussion and line of thinking is more important, when we actually get Space legs, but for now this entire discussion is a moot point.

I have no issues with holo-me. It's the telepresence which I don't like.Also considering we would have these emitters on all ships with another seat, it looks like a number of corporations have the tech. Also it would easily be copied. Just buy a ship.

Yes I said use some logic, because people aren't. That's not my fault. And I apologise if it does antagonise people, but people also really need to think about what they write.

 

[Winterwalker]

Even today we can pay for stuff without seeing them, are you saying that technology has taken a step back from today in a 1000 years.

It's got nothing to do with Technology, it's about Security?

Tell you what, 'simply' PM me, your credit card details ......

 

[Captain Hooch]

That is correct. Although crew that join the ship through telepresence are holograms.

Michael

Wait a minute, does this mean that the Elite Universe has the ability to make holograms that are capable of interacting with the physical world like say a holodeck with the safety off in star trek? Or do the items in the ship just have some kinda sensors that simulate physical input?

If the former how come we don't get a holographic representation of a canopy glass when our canopy is blown out.... also does this mean our shields are holograms?

 

[PyrateLV]

Im just going to always call it Commander Creator. Holo-Me sounds stupid

Tele-Presence, Holo-Me, whats next Planet Projector?

These names give the impression of fakeness. Is the whole Universe just one giant Hologram Projection?

 

[Taimaru]

Plot twist: In Season 3 we find out that we are all Thargoids playing a simulation where we are human pilots and training for the planned Galactic Invasion.

 

[LKx]

That is correct. Although crew that join the ship through telepresence are holograms.

Michael

Please, get rid of cross galaxy telepresence. It brings too many inconsistencies.

Just don't try to explain the sudden appearance of your crew mates at all, it's far better, everyone knows that it's a gamey mechanic anyway, and that's ok.
Cross-galaxy telepresence just makes it worse and dematerializes the commanders.

 

[LKx]

Im just going to always call it Commander Creator. Holo-Me sounds stupid

Tele-Presence, Holo-Me, whats next Planet Projector?

These names give the impression of fakeness. Is the whole Universe just one giant Hologram Projection?

Musk (and many others) sustains the theory that we are all in a simulation of reality!

 

[Noddie]

Personally. I don't like this implementation of multi-crew at all and - for me - they can drag the whole thing to the recycle bin and file it under "Well, that sounded cool when we thought it up!"

I'd be okay with it if you needed to get all your people to a station and form up. But I'm going to guess you just join from anywhere and your ship just vanishes (like it does when dismissed by an SRV) and you're teleported to a ship several days of FTL travel away in the blink of an eye. Presumably when you return it jumps back into where you left. Then people get to decide if their actions will or won't have consequences (oh, I hate that bit - it's essentially a murderers charter!).

Maybe I'll feel differently when it's all been explained properly. But at the moment it sounds like a botch job.

 

[Iain L]

This all seems a lot of discussion for a system that requires exactly the same amount of inter-system bandwidth as a game of CQC does. Just assume it uses the same method.

 

[Kerrash]

https://twitter.com/Kerrrash/status/832240431006113792

Nuff said

 

[CylonSurfer]

This is actually my preferred option for multicrew formation.

The compromise position should be that the potential guest Commanders must first dock at a Station, which then allows them to instantly multicrew with other Commanders who have an active Open Crew Slot within an arbitrary distance radius, something like 50-100LYs, which will preserve a sense of scale and geography in the setting.

Docked Guest Commanders would then have a "fade-to-black", and would then appear PHYSICALLY ON BOARD the host ship (no holograms needed!).

This fade-to-black would be the bit where we all suspend our disbelief, not much different from getting picked up from an escape pod "off-screen", or physically getting into the SRV "off-screen" like we already accept.

Alternatively, if two Commanders decide they want to Crew up but are too far away from a Station, then they can Crew up by instancing together in open space, at which point the Guests again fade-to-black to arrive PHYSICALLY on the host ship, and then their own ship is simply "Dismissed" away, just like we do on Planets when we're driving the SRV.

This uses current established lore, minimises our suspension of disbelief to levels similar levels to what we're already used to with death / rebuy.

There would be no need to invoke ill-thought out & setting-breaking disruptive technology, and it would give the feature sensible limits that don't undermine it's effectiveness, whilst maintaining all the other design features that get broken by insta-teleporting across unlimited distance.

I couldn't agree more. That damn SRV turret has a lot to answer for.... It all started there, no one complained (or hardly anyone), now its easy street for anything new developed for the game. Third Person turrets in a first person game - who cares its "tele-magic" (aka: easier to make) - Magical holo tramissions acorss the galaxy, who cares its, yeah you guessed it "tele-Magic"... Features which could be great just rushed out cheaply with "tele-magic", yes they fulfill the role they were made to do but with no quality or finesse. Even the act of "tele-presence" is just a cheap fade screen to black, I mean come on, if you are going to sell us on this cheap rubbish at least make it look good, lets see a hex grid on screen when you start the tele-presence, then every tile flip until the scene changes to where you telepresenced to...something that looks like we have "virtually" moved from position A to position B. Nope, fade to black third person camera for you laddo. Pure rubbish.

I'm looking forward to this evenings live stream, If I don't see the ability to crew a ship in first person mode (i.e share the cockpit) then this feature is just dead to me. The gunner role already is in fairness where as before the "3rd person turret camera" annoucement it was one of my most anticipated upcoming features. Gone are my dreams of maning the actual turrents on my buds ship. Cheap gimmicks over substance.

We could have had something like this:

But we get something like this....

How cheap.

 

[Kaocraft]

It's got nothing to do with Technology, it's about Security?

Tell you what, 'simply' PM me, your credit card details ......

Duuuuuuude. Thought experiment: in your room there are two always-online remotely accessible devices. One is a piggy bank which can have funds added or withdrawn remotely at will. The other is a loaded gun on a motorized swivel mount which can be aimed and fired at anyone. Of the two, which one should require higher security for a stranger to access remotely?

 

[knowles2]

Wait a minute, does this mean that the Elite Universe has the ability to make holograms that are capable of interacting with the physical world like say a holodeck with the safety off in star trek? Or do the items in the ship just have some kinda sensors that simulate physical input?

If the former how come we don't get a holographic representation of a canopy glass when our canopy is blown out.... also does this mean our shields are holograms?

We can make solid holograms now,

http://nextshark.com/a-uk-company-has-figured-out-how-to-make-holograms-solid/

 

[Wobblin-Gobblin]

So I'm getting it right:

While I'm sitting in my living-room in 3302, my hologram flies my ship 10000lys away in Hawkings Gap?

 

[Deadspin]

Wrong.

 

[Sasquatch_Punter]

Honestly, guys, it's not hard to canonize a gameplay mechanic so that it fits into established lore.

The thing I'm concerned about is fragmenting the gameworld by making telepresence to other players' ships the standard way of meeting up. IMO this shouldn't be possible with Spacelegs; you should be forced to meet up before you're allowed to walk around on another ship, or there should (at the very least) be an immersive cut that forces you to take a shuttle from a station or something at a fee.

The question is, how important is the gameworld's continuity to the experience? Should the multiplayer component basically amount to a bunch of lobbies centered on CMDRs' ships, where players drop in and out as they please, or should Frontier strive to make it cohesive?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Honestly, guys, it's not hard to canonize a gameplay mechanic so that it fits into established lore.

The thing I'm concerned about is fragmenting the gameworld by making telepresence to other players' ships the standard way of meeting up. IMO this shouldn't be possible with Spacelegs; you should be forced to meet up before you're allowed to walk around on another ship, or there should (at the very least) be an immersive cut that forces you to take a shuttle from a station or something at a fee.

The question is, how important is the gameworld's continuity to the experience? Should the multiplayer component basically amount to a bunch of lobbies centered on CMDRs' ships, where players drop in and out as they please, or should Frontier strive to make it cohesive?

This is the issue I have. Is the game just going to turn into a lobby game. If it does, I will be out, which is a shame as I have been enjoying it very much for the last 2 years.

 

[CmdrKull]

This is the issue I have. Is the game just going to turn into a lobby game. If it does, I will be out, which is a shame as I have been enjoying it very much for the last 2 years.

If you've been having fun for 2 years, Indont see how this update ruins anything for you. If it is some sort of lobby (we'll find out soon) it's not like you don't exist when and where you want, lobby be damned. You just get the ability to let people join you when and where you want.

I'm looking forward to trying it out, but then I'm the crazy guy that enjoyed CQC precisely because it was so easy to jump into. I only personally know one other Elite player, my son, and he barely plays Elite. If I only multicrewed with him, I'd be less useful to me than Powerplay. This way sounds like it will be much more inviting.

I understand you guys, when you say you don't like it....but don't you want other people to enjoy the game as much as you have been? This doesn't break any existing features, but makes it more inviting to others. It is probably the biggest push toward Open I've even received.