But that implies that the elite ethos of you against the universe alone is dead doesn't it? Forget trading or fighter/trading because if you come up against a wing by yourself you're dead. Maybe that's what FD wants, no idea.
Fer de lance and expected python nerf
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But that implies that the elite ethos of you against the universe alone is dead doesn't it? Forget trading or fighter/trading because if you come up against a wing by yourself you're dead. Maybe that's what FD wants, no idea.
No, from the first time I looked at the ship stats and saw that the Python had a manoeuvrability rating of 6, while all the other similar-sized ships had ratings of 0 or 2, there was no doubt in my mind that it would be looked at and almost certainly changed at some point.
The Python is currently just too good in too many ways.
Similarly, it's obvious that either we're all missing something about the Dropship, or that it's going to get a buff at some point. Compared to the Clipper it's junk, probably the weakest ship in the game at the moment, given its cost.
Yep. One of the new novels - "Wanted" - features a Fer de Lance as bounty huntress Ziva Eschel's vehicle of choice, and it is described as a "thoroughbred of a ship" with lots of high-end equipment tightly packed, but fewer redundancies than a Cobra. By the time of ED the design is a hundred years old, but still deemed "the best heavy interceptor ever built". Even though it was originally designed as an armed luxury yacht for rich folks (with luxury cabins part of the factory loadout).
Given how it handled in the novel and judging from the size of the concept art, I'm expecting something just slightly larger than a Viper, but in the price range of, say, maybe the Type-6, possibly up to the Asp. At least that's what I'm hoping for: the next logical upgrade after the Viper in terms of combat-focused ships, and something to close the gap to the Python/Anaconda (which are essentially glorified transports, but even so they are still used as light cruisers just due to how heavily you can militarise them).
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If a single kitted out Sidewinder were to be able to take on a kitted out Python / Anaconda and win, there would be a balance issue. (assuming two pilots of equal ability / skill)
That shouldn't be able to happen.
If you're a great pilot and manage it against a not-so-great pilot, however, that's a +Rep there.
That shouldn't be able to happen.
If you're a great pilot and manage it against a not-so-great pilot, however, that's a +Rep there.
There's more to it than that. A big ship piloted by a novice should be vulnerable to a skilled pilot in a small ship. But to do so must be a lot riskier than it is now -- when shields were first being discussed, it was mentioned that smaller ships would be able to get under the shields of larger ones. This (IMO of course) would give balance to the equation: make large ships have tough shields that a smaller ship would find hard to bring down. But let the smaller ship get inside the shield for a more skill-based attack vector. As the pilot of the smaller ship you'd have to get in close -- dodging incoming fire -- and maybe weaken a section of shield before getting inside it. Then you can start doing damage. Make engine wake do damage so that the attacker can't just sit in the weapons blind spot. Missiles wouldn't be so effective at close quarters as you'd likely damage yourself in the process.
At the moment it seems to be that the tactic for taking out a larger ship is to keep your distance and gnaw away at shields, and when the shields are down, pummel the hull with projectiles and missiles. There's very little risk for the attacker.
It's not like it's impossible to go anywhere without getting ganked by a player or a group of players - the galaxy is huge, I rarely even see a CMDR where I am now. So it's definitely not going to be a problem. Want to trade in systems with a high concentration of pirate gangs - get an escort of your own. Otherwise, simply trade 50 LY away from systems with many CMDRs in them.
Well, devs are starting to act like my city mayor. He backflips with every rally against his less populous (but correct) policies and now he lost credibility because everything he sign, people who does not agree hold a big rally and he cancels/delay it.
Devs, please explain what measure you use to balance the ships? Especially against the massive cost increase for anything post Lakon-6? If we are adjusting everything so that a marginally piloted solo Viper/Cobra can kill anything, then anything post Viper is pretty much useless.... I am by no means anywhere near a good pilot, I will probably lose most PvP matches I am in no matter what ship I use, but even with my skills I have no problems against an Elite Python NPC (apparently harder than Anaconda) using a triple fixed mc Eagle that I buy for giggles (was not expecting to defeat anything bigger than Asp). In that same instance, there's even a 2nd Python (Master) that I easily defeat 5 minutes later (wish I go energy build, there's a 3rd Python spawning but I have no more rounds on my mc). I only use 1 shield cell bank as precaution with my shield still in 3 rings as I came face to face with the Master (expecting a big plasma to the face, nothing), so not even struggling... With nerf, it's going to get even squishier...
Devs, please explain what measure you use to balance the ships? Especially against the massive cost increase for anything post Lakon-6? If we are adjusting everything so that a marginally piloted solo Viper/Cobra can kill anything, then anything post Viper is pretty much useless.... I am by no means anywhere near a good pilot, I will probably lose most PvP matches I am in no matter what ship I use, but even with my skills I have no problems against an Elite Python NPC (apparently harder than Anaconda) using a triple fixed mc Eagle that I buy for giggles (was not expecting to defeat anything bigger than Asp). In that same instance, there's even a 2nd Python (Master) that I easily defeat 5 minutes later (wish I go energy build, there's a 3rd Python spawning but I have no more rounds on my mc). I only use 1 shield cell bank as precaution with my shield still in 3 rings as I came face to face with the Master (expecting a big plasma to the face, nothing), so not even struggling... With nerf, it's going to get even squishier...
If that's true, then that's a problem. But the other big ships are then in a far worse boat than the Python, so they need to be moved in line with it.
But it sounds more like a problem with turrets if they can't deter them at all.
With your battleship analogy, if the battleship didn't have turrets but had a large fixed weapon and doesn't turn as well, it will have trouble against a smaller ship. The fixed weapons that require turning (in theory) are for fighting equal or larger opponents with the superior firepower. Turrets should off-set manoeuvrability disadvantages.
However, the big advantage that large ships should have over small that doesn't seem to be in the game is range.
But the key is, "RPG +1" ships should not exist. Different size/weight categories should mean something.
Yeah, the Anaconda does have far more drawbacks, and I think it should be buffed. I'm not sure why it's necessary for them to have so much hull when everyone just shoots the power plant or FSD anyway. Where's the skill there? Pressing the appropriate button enough times to select the appropriate subsystem?
The Python is not strictly better in every way. It has several drawbacks which I mentioned. I agree with you though, it should be better because of extra firepower, armor, modules and so on. That's precisely how it is.
I'm also not sure why it shouldn't be considered a strict upgrade. Why not? I don't care really, since I don't fly it. However, I don't see why a person who trades for ages to afford one should feel on equal footing with someone who didn't. Else, I'm not sure why someone would bother. Of course it should be an upgrade, and it should be noted that several aspects of it are already merely on par or worse than the ship which is 40 times cheaper.
Like I said, I don't really care, and I don't know how I got drawn into this. I do know that it would take me a while of trading to get a Python like I want it. If I had just done that and found that it was going to be nerfed, it would be quite frustrating regardless whether the nerf was warranted.
The Python is not strictly better in every way. It has several drawbacks which I mentioned. I agree with you though, it should be better because of extra firepower, armor, modules and so on. That's precisely how it is.
I'm also not sure why it shouldn't be considered a strict upgrade. Why not? I don't care really, since I don't fly it. However, I don't see why a person who trades for ages to afford one should feel on equal footing with someone who didn't. Else, I'm not sure why someone would bother. Of course it should be an upgrade, and it should be noted that several aspects of it are already merely on par or worse than the ship which is 40 times cheaper.
Like I said, I don't really care, and I don't know how I got drawn into this. I do know that it would take me a while of trading to get a Python like I want it. If I had just done that and found that it was going to be nerfed, it would be quite frustrating regardless whether the nerf was warranted.
@poseidal. Python is not big ship.
I do not know where you people have problem. Almost everybody can safety flee from fire of A6 drive python.
You want to beat player in python? for what? He have firepower and shield but he is slow, so leave him alone and safe flee. He cant pursue you.
Player in pyton is like a bulldog on short chain. Totally harmelss when you are not in range of chain.
I tell you something. Clipper has similar firepower and you cant run from it, even in Cobra Maybe it should be nerfed too? And IC is a two times cheaper than python.
Maybe everything should be nerfed? Or maybe you have not skill in game.
I do not know where you people have problem. Almost everybody can safety flee from fire of A6 drive python.
You want to beat player in python? for what? He have firepower and shield but he is slow, so leave him alone and safe flee. He cant pursue you.
Player in pyton is like a bulldog on short chain. Totally harmelss when you are not in range of chain.
I tell you something. Clipper has similar firepower and you cant run from it, even in Cobra
Maybe it should be nerfed too? And IC is a two times cheaper than python.Maybe everything should be nerfed? Or maybe you have not skill in game.
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This means that the AI needs to be improved, not that large ships should be overpowered. I would also make an in-game rule that an NPC ship's minimum rank and equipment should be tied to the type of the ship - for example, all NPC Pythons should be Expert or higher, etc. Currently it's kinda stupid to encounter Harmless Anacondas without shields.
Or maybe you should stop trolling and start posting something sensible?
That IS a problem - it should not be as easy as it is now. But it should be done by improving the AI, not overpowering the bots.
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nope...took out elite condas one after another in my cobra.
Of course it takes some skill (not much, but some) to get and stay behind one.
Go and learn how to play, then write someting about it. Not before.
Ships are balanced OK. AI needs to be much better.
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actually...ships must not be balanced. If a ship is x times more expensive (take a cobra vs python it is approx 150times more expensive than a cobra), there MUST be a clear difference.
I was going to post something, but I just got killed by a Python last night...
Acceleration AFAIK is linear force in the long axis, turn is vector force applied in different direction. Can we keep to something similar?
Look at the Python vector thrusters, they are numerous and very well placed. Shearing would be a problem if vector applied on only one side and not in opposite directions. This turns a fulcrum into an axis... If proper physics are invoked, please go all the way.
Then why is Python classified as a Medium? I think Python is too good for its price. Python and Anaconda are both classified as "Multi-purpose", Anaconda costs 2.5 times more and yet Anaconda is a "trade-off" instead of a direct upgrade. Anaconda has more hardpoints, more components space, but suffers from bad maneuverability, lower shields strength, lower speed, much higher upkeep & repair cost. Why are these "trade-offs" not occurring the same for Python with its lower tiers like Clipper or Dropship? Why should Python able to turn like a small fighter and still packing large fire power?
The problem is not the viper its the fire rate of dumbfires being about as fast as you can pull the trigger - its way to high allowing almost infinite short term DPS, I would knock the fire rate down to about 2/sec.
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