Fine fines and more fines! The fines discussion thread

[GimpstersGhost]

Which ever way they decide to go, retaining or loosing on death, both Bounties and Vouchers should be treated the same way. I can understand loosing your vouchers as they are tied to the ship, but the bounties on your head should be the same.

I should not be able to kill a player over and over for the same bounty, that's far too exploitable. Killing a player with a big bounty over and over while they keep re-spawning in the free ship is unbalancing.

 

[thewzdoc]

Which ever way they decide to go, retaining or loosing on death, both Bounties and Vouchers should be treated the same way. I can understand loosing your vouchers as they are tied to the ship, but the bounties on your head should be the same.

I should not be able to kill a player over and over for the same bounty, that's far too exploitable. Killing a player with a big bounty over and over while they keep re-spawning in the free ship is unbalancing.

I think bounties go away with your ships destruction but the fines applied to you do not. Fines are collected by the government and turn into bounties over time. Bounties are collected by other players upon your death and if that player gets popped before collecting the bounty then nobody gets it and the government (or whatever applied a bounty to your head) doesn't have to pay out.

 

[Cmdr Andy B]

It's also made of some kind of indestructobtonium or something....careful not to run into it....it's small but immovable...

Not that I'VE ever run into it....I've just heard this on the forums...

it was i that started the thread titled 'nav beacons - a brick wall in space' i hit one with a Conda and BANG

they are far from indestructible though, you can blow them up with your weapons, I've knocked off several once the NPC's stopped arriving just to get a little bit of revenge for my Conda

 

[thewzdoc]

it was i that started the thread titled 'nav beacons - a brick wall in space' i hit one with a Conda and BANG

they are far from indestructible though, you can blow them up with your weapons, I've knocked off several once the NPC's stopped arriving just to get a little bit of revenge for my Conda

I've shot them to bits before as well.....so apparently they are like a form of Non-Newtonian fluid-metal or something that react to mass....small mass of projectiles can damage it, laser blasts damage it, a massive ship smashing into it....no damage.

 

[Kerrash]

This OP has hit the same problem as most other gameplay related posts.
We simply don't know the reason why this is happening.

It could be a bug/incomplete or, as has been suggested, some deeper gameplay reason for this behaviour.

Either way, at this stage at least, it is best to simply report it and walk away...

 

[thewzdoc]

This OP has hit the same problem as most other gameplay related posts.
We simply don't know the reason why this is happening.

It could be a bug/incomplete or, as has been suggested, some deeper gameplay reason for this behaviour.

Either way, at this stage at least, it is best to simply report it and walk away...

I'll attempt a Zen moment.....

 

[Squire]

A thousand times this!

 

[Flappers]

I think losing your vouchers upon death is a good death penalty to have. If it were not there, then there would be practically no penalty for bounty hunters (as insurance is pretty inexpensive to get your ship back).

It's very similar to traders/pirates, when they die, they will lose their cargo.

If they bought in a way to insure your cargo, then there should also be a way to insure your bounty vouchers. It should work both ways.

As for the fines... well, I'm a bit mixed on this one. On one hand, it kinda makes sense to keep the fines after death. (Like in real life, if you die, your loan payments and such will move to your immediate family... but then again, you don't exactly respawn ).

But on the other hand, to lose your cargo/ vouchers and still have fines on your head is a real kick in the balls.

 

[mojonaut]

You catch more flies with honey then vinegar, and these days we have lots of honey.

Actually you catch more flies with manure, and these days we have lots of ....... (well you fill in the blank)

Its called Elite 'Dangerous' for a reason

 

[Virgil Kyle]

I like the idea that some systems could be ruled by eccentrics who have banned perfectly innocuous things, like the use of the colour green, or the import/export of energy drinks. The more loony they are, the more severe the punishment might be.

Imagine, for example, getting fined by local police because you didn't observe the time-honoured custom of dropping a can of biowaste by the beacon denoting the site of a famous historic space battle.

Stuff like this would be local legend and would (probably) be discoverable from the bulletin boards at nearby systems. Of course, other pilots might tell you - or they might decide not to!

I like it I do think it's important not to make any consequences too severe, though, as that could feel very unfair, as was already mentioned.

 

[natte hond]

cannot pay fines bug

dumping multiple cannisters at once inside a station will trigger a bug.
after the dump you will not be able to pay your stacked up fines.
this bug remains trough death either form AI or players.

http://www.twitch.tv/nattehond/b/570920234

I done this in 1.04 and it remained until the update of 1.05
done it again to see it it was solved but apparently not.

I wonder how much you need to dump to trigger this.
it could be that you only get this when you dump all canisters at once.
but cannot test this until the next update.

so if you feel you are up for this test please do so.
and let me know.

if not enjoy the spectacle of 440 cannisters being rammed by me inside the station.

edit at 29 minutes you also see the reverse landing bug.
which I haven't seen for a wile.

 

[Trader Pat]

Bounty / Fine system illogical

It's been said a lot already, and it sucks to lose a nice chest of bounty vouchers when being rammed out of the blue. Maybe it'll be addressed in the future.

What bugs me more is the illogical approach. Here is an example, live from yesterday night:
Location is Eranin, my legal status is Clean, no fine on record. Checking on a USS, the NPC ship deploys its hard points. Mine are up in a flash, and I start hosing the dude with all my MC WHILE the scan operates. Its status is undetermined when I hit it with my 1st volley.

This is immediately considered an aggression and nets my a WANTED status plus 200cr in fine.

Now the scan result is up and the dude is WANTED, good enough for me amateur bounty hunter. After a few passes, its ship explodes, my bounty voucher is 250cr. Ouf! I won't be losing too much...

Arriving at Eranin station, a quick scan by the station put a red flag on me and their lasers make quick mince meat of my poor Viper. After insurance payment of 27K cr, I am back at dock.

A peek at my status shows my bounty is gone, as usual. BUT the fine is still there and needs to be paid before 15 minutes are gone or I'm a wanted man again.

So please dear FDevs it is aggravating enough to lose the hard earned bounties on a quick death, when fines are staying on record. Please chose and pick one side, keeping it at least logical. I don't mind that death happens to erase my vouchers, just make it so it erases ALSO the fines, or keep both after death and insurance.

Thank you!

 

[ZenSpider]

Yeah there are still some things to iron out in the fine/bounty system, and with faction reputation etc. coming in Beta 2 I'd expect some noticeable changes.

But caution is obviously advisable if you're trying to dock as a wanted man. Were you going in stealthed? It might also be worth trying to find a lower-security system in which to pay off Federal bounties.

 

[Tornado]

I don't see it as illogical.
The bounty voucher is stored on you ship and isn't redeemed until you get to a dock so is destroyed when your ship is destroyed. But you wanted status is kept by the Feds, so is not destroyed when your ship is.

 

[Tinman]

When testing anything that is still in development and unfinished you will logically come across scenarios that feels illogical since they aren't finished yet.

 

[bamber]

Firstly it seems you are complaining about losing a "chest of bounties" so a little greed is apperaring to do "one more attack"

Secondly everything you describe is well known Currently if you shoot first you are the aggressor and so will be fined this is placeholder

Thirdly the level of bounty is placeholder

Fourthly - If you are wanted in a jurisdiction dont go there until you can sort it out if you can find a quiet backwater not a system in the middle of a well publicised war

Fifth - go in stealthy its a well known well proven method

Lot of complaints that to me seem to be stick seat interface problems

 

[metatheurgist]

If someone is not wanted in the local system but is wanted in another system, it's still a crime to shoot them in the local system.

 

[Ozric]

To be fair if you start shooting first at someone then you are the aggressor and should get a bounty. There was nothing to say that that ship deployed it's hardpoints because it was planning on attacking you, it could have been preparing to defend itself in case you attacked it unprovoked. Which you did.

Also, unfortunately, as others have said I don't see it as illogical as the bounty vouchers are stored in the ships computer, whereas when you are given a fine that goes to the Feds central computer so your ship has no relevance to it.

 

[Trader Pat]

To be fair if you start shooting first at someone then you are the aggressor and should get a bounty. There was nothing to say that that ship deployed it's hardpoints because it was planning on attacking you, it could have been preparing to defend itself in case you attacked it unprovoked. Which you did.

Also, unfortunately, as others have said I don't see it as illogical as the bounty vouchers are stored in the ships computer, whereas when you are given a fine that goes to the Feds central computer so your ship has no relevance to it.

True, I am the aggressor and no contest about it as I said. My point if you can remember from the title is demonstrating the illogical aspect of the system in its present state.

I don't see it as illogical.
The bounty voucher is stored on you ship and isn't redeemed until you get to a dock so is destroyed when your ship is destroyed. But you wanted status is kept by the Feds, so is not destroyed when your ship is.

So fines are instantly transmitted to the relevant authorities and not the bounties? But kill count is maintained. Not logical, as stated.

 

[Trader Pat]

It's been said a lot already, and it sucks to lose a nice chest of bounty vouchers when being rammed out of the blue. Maybe it'll be addressed in the future.
...

Firstly it seems you are complaining about losing a "chest of bounties" so a little greed is apperaring to do "one more attack"

Secondly everything you describe is well known Currently if you shoot first you are the aggressor and so will be fined this is placeholder

Thirdly the level of bounty is placeholder

Fourthly - If you are wanted in a jurisdiction dont go there until you can sort it out if you can find a quiet backwater not a system in the middle of a well publicised war

Fifth - go in stealthy its a well known well proven method

Lot of complaints that to me seem to be stick seat interface problems

1 & 2 - Not complaining, just asking in this Beta stage for a logical system in the future. As said, I know this is a subject that has been discussed at length.

3, 4 & 5 Yeap, though my purpose was to experiment the system for this particular case. Going in stealthy would have defeated the purpose, don't you think?

Being in a Beta stage means we people are going in and try to see what breaks or resists... Unless one wants to explain the purpose of a Beta open to the public in case I missed it?