First time playing on PC and VR - Intel or AMD??

I'm a PS4 veteran (so much so I'm loath to transfer my assets and lose all those ranks and engineering mods), but I'm now in a position to buy a pretty mega PC and VR setup. There's a clear divide between intel and AMD, but AMD appears to be making waves right now.

That said, it's Elite Dangerous I am interested in first and foremost. What do I go for?
 
I'm a PS4 veteran
#METOO#


Well Stick with Intel and Nvidia..The rest don't matter
Ahem, not so fast, there's a slew of information on youtube about this after AMD's recent CPU updates, Intel does give higher frame rates on some games depending on monitor resolution, but AMD trashes Intel when it comes to desktop usage like rendering. In my experiance Intel needs top of the range cooling solutions for their K series chips when run overclocked, a deep freeze is the best solution or the north pole, I currently run a 7700K and I had to spend a small fortune to get the thing to run cool, infact I run the pc with the case side panel removed to assist with cooling.

GPU:
In Elite VR (my GPU (1080Ti) is more limiting than the CPU, I would spend far more on the GPU than CPU, There is currently a price war with GPU's, what's unfortunate about this is that Nvidia is playing with customers, price and performance, by releasing a new GPU only when being forced to by a new release from AMD hence Nvidias recent "Super" series of cards, but I doubt that Nvidia will soon release a new "Super" card which outperforms their current 2080Ti or Titan cards.
My advice for Elite VR is get a 2080Ti.

CPU:
Remember that consoles influence game development, next generation consoles will have 8 cores so use that as a base for CPU purchase.
At 1440p CPU performance is tied across the board with new AMD offerings so I'll be going with a AMD CPU for my next upgrade, because I want to "stick it" to team blue for their nasty price gouging, and the need for high end cooling solutions required for their K series CPU's.
My advice for a CPU, AMD 3700X or 3900X.

RAM:
2x 16 GB 3200, why so much ?, I noticed that Elite and Oculus utilise up to 16GB of pagefile, so I decided to decrease that lag by installing 32 GB of RAM and manually setting the pagefile to minimum in order to force windows to use RAM as pagefile, perhaps with NVME's this is no longer required and with Pcie 4.0 SSD'a becoming available it might not be necessary to have so much RAM for page file, Pcie 4.0 is a feature of new generation AMD motherboards.

COOLING:
Get the best Performace to Noise solution that you can afford. I was considering CPU water cooling by connecting a water block directly to the house mains If I hadn't been able to reduce my ridiculous 7700k CPU temps by delidding, TIM sanding, liquid metal, yes I was that annoyed with the fan noise and CPU throttling due to temperature.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZAqV6yo2vo
 
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Good post dunno.

For the CPU 6 or more physical cores, Elite is good with multithreading and VR adds to this, but as dunno says spend most of your money on graphics.

I run a Ryzen 5 1600, that's a first gen part, and although I was careful with memory choice and timings (ryzen can be memory sensitive) it has pared surprisingly well with a 1080ti with the GPU being the bottle neck in most situations.
I bought the 1600 with the intention of upgrading when 3rd gen zen 2 came out, and I will do that with the 3700X looking like my choice. I'll be interested to see if the faster part actually makes a difference. (I also really like that the AM4 platform works across CPU generations)

For memory if I was to build again I'd look at 32GB. I got 16GB and like dunno have noticed there's a lot of page file use with Elite in VR, although I'm already running on NVME and no idea if more ram would actually make a difference.

2080ti if you can afford it, if cost does matter then 2080 and then I'd be tempted to look at AMDs new offerings. Initial benchmarks are promising and they might improve as the drivers mature.

Almost wish I was building again, good luck.
 
Thanks everyone. I'm presently in a position where cost isn't really an obstacle (to a point!) so a 2080ti looks to be the one, and with the console comment above (wise words indeed) I think I will go for an AMD CPU.
 
AMD CPU

Nvida Video card

But wait just a bit longer before building

It will take a few months for supply to fill the retail outlets. The 3950X isn't available yet. but the cheaper ones are still scarce. New motherboards/chipsets might take a bit to work out any kinks. It's still early, but in the fall I'll be building a new box. Likely a 3950X CPU with an RTX 2080Ti (Super?), a ton of ram (32 or 64 GB) and M.2 Nvme SSD(s).
X570 board will have PCIe 4.0 slots which likely won't do much but be a bit of future proofing at present.

Fall is going to be a great time to build as it's the first time in years where a convergence of complimentary new hardware is all available at the same time. The last few years have been more incremental development of CPU, video card, ram, and boot drive tech, creeping along in fits and starts - but now we are going to see a major platform that can use all state of the art tech together at the same time.
 
Only thing I'm really not liking about these new boards is the re-introduction of the tiny motherboard fan.
Sounded like these where added for pci-e 4. So it's not an AMD only issue.

I really hated those back in the day and they often made my office/game room as loud as the factory floor I worked at.
Should at least make them conform to normal sizes so I can upgrade to a silent fan or just replace a broken one.
 
Only thing I'm really not liking about these new boards is the re-introduction of the tiny motherboard fan.
Sounded like these where added for pci-e 4. So it's not an AMD only issue.

I really hated those back in the day and they often made my office/game room as loud as the factory floor I worked at.
Should at least make them conform to normal sizes so I can upgrade to a silent fan or just replace a broken one.

Agreed

I'm thinking it may be time for me to give serious thought to liquid cooling.

I'v also seen articles re high M.2 ssd temps that need better cooling to prevent throttling.

Always sumpin'
 
Even with VR and an RTX 2080 Ti, you likely aren't going to be CPU limited with a higher-end 6c/12t or eight-core part from either Intel or AMD, unless you happen to have a head set capable of much more than 90Hz...or plan on getting one.

AMD's new Ryzen 3 seems to have surpassed Intel for gaming for the first time!
Generally not, at least at the extreme high-end of CPU limited gaming (which is a niche mostly limited to competitive gamers or those with 240Hz displays), especially once overclocking comes into play. Encoding while playing at the same time is another matter, but with the improvements that have been made to OBS and NVENC on Pascal and newer parts, this is far less of an issue that it was, even for those that take streaming or recording relatively seriously.

Anyway if the Ryzen 3000 line had surpassed Intel for gaming performance, this would be at least the third time, not the first. The original K7 bested the Pentium III and the K8s were generally faster than the Pentium IV and Pentium D variants they competed against, with the exception of the Galatin based EE parts, which were in a whole other price category.

Anyway, there are very few scenarios where I would not recommend a Ryzen 3000 part currently.

Only thing I'm really not liking about these new boards is the re-introduction of the tiny motherboard fan.
Sounded like these where added for pci-e 4. So it's not an AMD only issue.

I really hated those back in the day and they often made my office/game room as loud as the factory floor I worked at.
Should at least make them conform to normal sizes so I can upgrade to a silent fan or just replace a broken one.
All these board makers putting fans on their X570 boards instead of using real heatsinks is an annoyance. It's not like there haven't been passively cooled chipsets of vastly higher power consumption/heat dissipation in the past.

Linus is full of crap, this cooling is not a nessary evil, it a lazy hack. The peak disipation of the X570 is 14w. I have ten year old X58 boards with 40k hours of heavy load on them than don't need chipset fans and dissipate twice that, all while coupled to comparatively ancient and inefficient VRMs.

However, without making use of the extra I/O the new chipset provides the load should never get high enough for the fan to even need to speed up, and they should only be audible if they start to fail.

Agreed

I'm thinking it may be time for me to give serious thought to liquid cooling.

I'v also seen articles re high M.2 ssd temps that need better cooling to prevent throttling.

Always sumpin'
SSDs don't produce much heat either and simply replacing the air gap that usually under an M.2 drive with a thermal pad will almost always eliminate any throttling. It's not very blingy though...

That's my HTPC. See that pale green stuff under the M.2 drive? That's less than two dollars of cheap thermal gap filler pad, stacked until it needed to be compressed slightly. It cut load temps of that SSD by more than 30C and there is nothing I can do to make thermally throttle now.

Anyway, watercooling a ~14w chipset is a waste of a waterblock and tubing, IMO. There is no non-cosmetic justification for putting another point of failure in a loop when any passive heatsink with actual surface area (fins) would achive the same practical effect.
 
Even with VR and an RTX 2080 Ti, you likely aren't going to be CPU limited with a higher-end 6c/12t or eight-core part from either Intel or AMD, unless you happen to have a head set capable of much more than 90Hz...or plan on getting one.
Valve index is still my top choice.
 
Valve index is still my top choice.
If you're targeting 120Hz+ with no reprojection, I think there is an argument for an overclocked 9700 or 9900K, but you'd probably need to sacrifice some IQ for the 2080 Ti to not be the limiting factor in such a scenario in ED anyway.

None of my stuff is quite this high-end (couple of older Intel 6c/12t parts, a few 1080 Tis, and cheap Acer WMR headset) so I can't say for certain how much of a limiting factor a high-end Ryzen would be, or if an i7 or i9 would matter enough to alleviate it.

I'm sure the experience will be good either way, but your use case may fall into the limited scenarios where the Intel part does have an edge.
 
Give the recent news about AMD processors, I feel going for an Intel would be setting me back for other games in as little as 12 months.
 
A lot of great input above.

The bottom line is that AMD is finally giving Intel/Nvidia some competition which benefits the consumer.

Intel is likely to respond at some point, as is Nvidia due to AMD's recent announcement of price drops BEFORE release of new products is likely to push prices downward in mid range GPU's.

It's all good
 
Rig building time !

A good read on the DirectX 11 Multithreaded rendering model and vendor specific multi core CPU and GPU scalability.


As far as recommendations go it is definitely worth waiting for HP to sort the Reverb out. Although I haven't used an Index I have got a Rift S which is in the same ballpark pixel density wise as the Index at sub 600 ppi. The Verb is over 1000 ppi. Having spent a decent amount of time with the Verb in Elite I can tell you for a fact that this translates to a remarkable leap in HUD text quality and world detail.

I am not dismissing the Index as it is clearly an excellent overall HMD - arguably the best all rounder available - but if Elite is your primary use case then the Reverb is the droid you seek.
 
Well, there's a bit of time between me buying all this stuff anyway. So we'll see if HP can sort out their QC issues; I'm not convinced they will. I have a hunch, based on everything I have read (essentially everyone sending theirs back), that it's an inherent design flaw.
 
VR is GPU intensive. My 7700K runs at ~45% and GPU at ~65% when not in stations and near planet surfaces. When in stations and near planet surfaces the CPU increases to ~55% and GPU to 90% +-7, I've tweaked Elite's graphic settings to hit my 1080Ti's limit. Most of Elite graphics settings are on Ultra/High except for Blur/off, Shadows, Jet cones, and Ambient Occlusion. (HMD at 2, and SS at 1).

I could run a 2080TI with my 7700k and not bottleneck the CPU in Elite VR (remember that monitor resolution plays a big role), I think that 2D monitor tests at 1440p is the more relevant indicator of CPU and GPU pairing effectiveness for current VR.

With any build I would suggest that one goes for the best Performance to Noise ratio. High torque at low rpm instead of high revving. Also, to keep fan noise down under load the CPU/GPU have to be cooled through good desgin and plumbing, some GPU's of the same type are better designed for heat dissipation. My games room is A/C'd to 21 C which helps to keep the temperatures low., card runs at 71 C, 57% fan usage, and CPU temps ~50 C. The A/C noise masks the PC's.

K series are heat monsters (high revving, high wattage, crap internal heat dissipation), it's their signature tune. AS I stated earlier I was seriously considering hooking up the CPU to the water mains, my next build will be water cooled and if need be I'll just splice the pipes to the house's cold main and use the run off to water the garden.

EDIT: dunno raises a glass to the Electricity gods, for without them none of this would be possible :)
 
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