Fleet Carrier - Black Markets

quelcertoleo

quelcertoleo
How does the secure warehouse module works with fleet carriers?

From the support page (https://support.frontier.co.uk/kb/faq.php?id=530) I read:
Manage Secure Warehouse - Manage purchase and sell orders
Click to expand...

Is this actually the case? As far as I've been told, in the beta the secure warehouse could only buy stuff and not sell.
I like the idea of a black market in a carrier, a bit like the "Goods bought and sold" shady markets we had back in elite2 and FFE.

febbs.gif
 

quelcertoleo

quelcertoleo
Pristine_Bump said:
The carrier will store blackmarket goods without it for the owner though and thats fine if you hang out in Anarchy Systems :rolleyes:
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I'm not interested in just storing illegal or stolen goods but actually to commerce them. Smuggling is fun :)
It is a feature that should have more context. For example, a carrier full of narcotics, liquor and slaves should be a blessing in a tourism or refinery system where such goods are illegal and highly sought after by the tourists of by the oppressed workers.
 

goemon

goemon
quelcertoleo said:
I'm not interested in just storing illegal or stolen goods but actually to commerce them. Smuggling is fun :)
It is a feature that should have more context. For example, a carrier full of narcotics, liquor and slaves should be a blessing in a tourism or refinery system where such goods are illegal and highly sought after by the tourists of by the oppressed workers.
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Fcs don't support the concept of legislation, so you can trade commodities illegal in the system via the regular FC commoditiy market (your exampel: narcotics, liquor, slaves). system security around FC will still try to scan and fine you.

the secure warehouse acts exactly as the FCs commodity market, but for stolen goods only.

as the owner can store stolen goods on the Fc anyways, the usefullness of the secure warehouse is limited (but, for exampel, certain salvageable goods often only come as stolen, so to purchase them from other players you need it.)
 

Deleted member 182079

D
Pristine_Bump said:
The carrier will store blackmarket goods without it for the owner though and thats fine if you hang out in Anarchy Systems :rolleyes:
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I've got the fence module installed and still haven't used it properly... tbh if the above is true (and I take your word for it:)) there's no point in keeping it installed as I don't believe there's an actual (player) market for it, and if there is, it's not big enough to bother with given the cost of the module. Edit: I read elsewhere that the module is required to store stolen goods, which is the only reason I have it onboard. Unless you're saying it is needed outside of Anarchy systems? :unsure:

Why would you buy and sell stolen goods from/to a carrier if you can just do so with a station that's likely closer by? As the FC owner, you'd have to go pretty low with the selling price, pretty high with the buying price, to entice other players to take note.

I have a buy order for Tritium @ 60k (so 50% above market rates, I won't go higher as I'd rather buy and haul it myself @40k instead) but no takers, for several days now. It's more of an experiment though as I'm not in need of a lot of fuel at the moment.

People will always try to max profits (can't blame them) so unless there are extreme profits to be made, player trading seems a bit dead in the water, and that would only apply more so for stolen merchandise.
 

quelcertoleo

quelcertoleo
ObiW said:
As the FC owner, you'd have to go pretty low with the selling price, pretty high with the buying price, to entice other players to take note.
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You either sell or you buy. You won't be able to make money out of it on a buy/sell scheme.
The interesting part is that prices can be really competitive for stolen stuff because...well...you just pirate it and not buy it.
If you pirate 100t of LTDs out of an NPC or players then you will have to put a very competitive price for those diamonds, for example no more than 500k. That would be 50mln profit and in my book that's good profit.

What remains to be seen is if there is any actual players buying stolen stuff to resell for a profit.
e.g., if you put up stolen LTDs for sale at 500k then the buyer would have to lookout a station with black market that buys LTDs.
again, suppose the station is buying for 800k. black market price will be 800k -25% and that makes 600k.

a marginal 100k profit.

players are too greedy nowadays and I'm not sure they will risk getting fines for scans for 100k profit.
 
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goemon

goemon
ObiW said:
I've got the fence module installed and still haven't used it properly... tbh if the above is true (and I take your word for it:)) there's no point in keeping it installed as I don't believe there's an actual (player) market for it, and if there is, it's not big enough to bother with given the cost of the module. Edit: I read elsewhere that the module is required to store stolen goods, which is the only reason I have it onboard. Unless you're saying it is needed outside of Anarchy systems? :unsure:

Why would you buy and sell stolen goods from/to a carrier if you can just do so with a station that's likely closer by? As the FC owner, you'd have to go pretty low with the selling price, pretty high with the buying price, to entice other players to take note.

I have a buy order for Tritium @ 60k (so 50% above market rates, I won't go higher as I'd rather buy and haul it myself @40k instead) but no takers, for several days now. It's more of an experiment though as I'm not in need of a lot of fuel at the moment.

People will always try to max profits (can't blame them) so unless there are extreme profits to be made, player trading seems a bit dead in the water, and that would only apply more so for stolen merchandise.
Click to expand...

differently to the commodity market, which is read and transmitted by various third party tools, the secure warehouse market supply/demand does not show up on eddb/inara/... etc., so there is no other way for players to know what you are buying or selling, than flying to the fc, docking and checking the secure warehouse. in that regards it works as station blackmarkets, but station blackmarkets at least allow you to check beforehand which goods can be sold there (stolen plus illegals as listed in system map), if not for which price....

as said above: as an owner you can store stolen commodities without the secure warehouse, so there is no need to have one for that.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
I remember now I did have a buy order for stolen LTDs for several weeks - 200t I think @ 700k - this is based on my experience with selling pirated LTDs in station black markets at around 800k on average, so I'd still make a bit of dough while considering offering a pretty decent price. No takers at all which made me remove the order eventually (since apparently it affects jump range....).

Taking into account that the piracy scene is quite small, and LTD markets not being what they used to be, I guess it is a pretty niche market.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
goemon said:
differently to the commodity market, which is read and transmitted by various third party tools, the secure warehouse market supply/demand does not show up on eddb/inara/... etc., so there is no other way for players to know what you are buying or selling, than flying to the fc, docking and checking the secure warehouse. in that regards it works as station blackmarkets, but station blackmarkets at least allow you to check beforehand which goods can be sold there (stolen plus illegals as listed in system map), if not for which price....

as said above: as an owner you can store stolen commodities without the secure warehouse, so there is no need to have one for that.
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Classic. Completely and utterly pointless then. I'll make sure to get rid then at the earliest opportunity (not that I need the cash but I don't like to pay for stuff that adds zero value).
 

quelcertoleo

quelcertoleo
goemon said:
differently to the commodity market, which is read and transmitted by various third party tools, the secure warehouse market supply/demand does not show up on eddb/inara/... etc., so there is no other way for players to know what you are buying or selling, than flying to the fc, docking and checking the secure warehouse. in that regards it works as station
Click to expand...

are you sure?
check inara, the station offering the lowest prices on LTD export is a carrier and it has only stolen LTDs.

anyway, this secure warehouse seems interesting but doesn't seem a good thing. It would be useful if it actually could "laundry" the stolen status for a fee.
 

GlowyHedgehog

GlowyHedgehog
goemon said:
differently to the commodity market, which is read and transmitted by various third party tools, the secure warehouse market supply/demand does not show up on eddb/inara/... etc., so there is no other way for players to know what you are buying or selling, than flying to the fc, docking and checking the secure warehouse. in that regards it works as station blackmarkets, but station blackmarkets at least allow you to check beforehand which goods can be sold there (stolen plus illegals as listed in system map), if not for which price....
Click to expand...
I have stolen goods (actually picked up at a USS) and they shows up on Inara as cargo. I currently don't have the market going so can't say anything about whether they would appear in the market information as for sale, if I set them up that way.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
Zannry said:
I tried them in beta 1 and was not a fan. Now, if they would allow you to take a stolen commodity and convert it to clean one for sale in legititmate markets that would be worth the cost.
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Yeah I kind of hoped they worked that way, but nope. That would certainly make NPC piracy a worthwhile activity if nothing else. The way things are now you're better off mining legit yourself.

I do wonder how FD came up with these ideas and features, some are really badly thought out and undercooked.
 

goemon

goemon
quelcertoleo said:
are you sure?
check inara, the station offering the lowest prices on LTD export is a carrier and it has only stolen LTDs.

anyway, this secure warehouse seems interesting but doesn't seem a good thing. It would be useful if it actually could "laundry" the stolen status for a fee.
Click to expand...
not sure what you referring to - the Fc i see as lowest price ltd export is not selling stolen LTD: https://inara.cz/market/21846/198286/

could you share a link? i'm not 100% sure, but at least for my own FC with secure warehouse i have never seen its buy and sell orders for stolen goods anywhere third party side.
 

goemon

goemon
GlowyHedgehog said:
I have stolen goods (actually picked up at a USS) and they shows up on Inara as cargo. I currently don't have the market going so can't say anything about whether they would appear in the market information as for sale, if I set them up that way.
Click to expand...
they show up as cargo, same for the fleet carrier management tool, but the buy/sell orders for stolen goods are not shown.
 

quelcertoleo

quelcertoleo
goemon said:
not sure what you referring to - the Fc i see as lowest price ltd export is not selling stolen LTD: https://inara.cz/market/21846/198286/

could you share a link? i'm not 100% sure, but at least for my own FC with secure warehouse i have never seen its buy and sell orders for stolen goods anywhere third party side.
Click to expand...

see the cargo tab here:
inara.cz

INARA

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you have to check the fleet carrier and not its market ;)
76t of stolen LTDs (yarrrr), same as the quantity offered in the market view you linked.

to get there you have to navigate from the market you linked to the fc owner, open his fc view and finally the cargo.
 
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