Fleet Carriers - Beta 1 - Feedback Changes

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Kaocraft

Kaocraft
SirMaxxx said:
Never fly without a rebuy
Click to expand...
You don't have to fly the Fleet Carrier to LOSE the Fleet Carrier. Time does that all by itself. All you have to do to lose your fleet carrier is get a fleet carrier. It will then automatically be taken away from you unless you take ongoing nonstop continuous regular steps to prevent this. Also, the longer you delay the loss of your carrier, the more money you lose.

So, Updating your corny adage:

Never buy without a rebuy.
 

onimoD_XLT

onimoD_XLT
Stephen Benedetti said:
Greetings Commanders!


Thank you for testing the prototype Drake-Class Fleet Carriers brought to you by the Brewer Corporation. Since the beta's launch, we've been carefully reading and discussing your feedback and are ready to share the upcoming changes. We look forward to hearing more of what you think for the remainder of Beta 1 and in Beta 2 coming next month. All changes are subject to further balancing based on future feedback.


Here are the changes coming this week:
  • The upkeep cost for all additional services will be reduced by 80-90%.
  • Core running costs will be reduced by 50%
Fleet Carriers represent a big investment, with a lot of crew and resources involved. After hearing your concerns, we've reduced the upkeep to a more sustainable level. The total running costs for a Fleet Carrier with all services active will be reduced by a total of 85.5%.

  • The debt threshold has been updated in line with the upkeep changes. This means with all services installed, a carrier can go 10 weeks (up from 4) without paying upkeep before being issued a final warning.
This is designed to relieve the pressure of carrier management, leaving more time for focus on other activities. While the debt threshold will be lower, Fleet Carrier owners will have more time to maintain the upkeep costs.

  • The total upfront activation costs of some of the more expensive services will be reduced by 35-45%.
Along with the upkeep changes, this reduces the overall outfitting and maintenance costs of Fleet Carriers.

  • The time between jumps will be dramatically decreased by only requiring 15 minutes for jump preparation and 5 minutes to cool-down.
More frequent jumps will increase the utility of Fleet Carriers overall, allowing them to enhance the owner and visitors' game-play more easily.


The two changes below will come in the second beta. Additional changes can be expected as more feedback comes in:
  • Universal Cartographics will become available as an optional service.
Similar to Bounty Vouchers, a cut of 25% which will be split 50/50 between the Fleet Carrier's bank and the service, will be taken from any data sold on the Fleet Carrier. This means owners will effectively only be charged a fee of 12.5% on their own Fleet Carrier. This service will otherwise be the same as Universal Cartographics services found on stations.

  • Tritium will be made at least 2x more effective as a fuel.
In combination with a reduced preparation and cool-down time, this should improve long distance Fleet Carrier travel.


We're excited to hear what you think of these changes and seeing them in action for the remainder of Beta 1. Thank you for all of your valuable feedback which has helped shape these changes and will drive the rest of the changes made throughout the rest of the beta period. As mentioned above, this next beta will take place in May, and will be available to Xbox and PlayStation as well as PC players.


Thanks again, Commanders!

o7
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I'm looking forward to the Xbone beta. I've seen a lot of complaints about costs and badmouthing of Frontier development. Speaking for myself, you've hours enjoyment and escapism at an astoundingly low cost. I don't know how you make it pay. People are understandably passionate about this game but I worry that the negative comments from some may queer the pitch for the rest of us. Keep doing what you guys and don't lose heart.
 

woody627

W
would it be possible to have large cabins for F/C for passenger missions ie: transport from station to F/C in normal ships transfer to cabin on F/C go on the trip then take them back
 

TeeCeeGee

T
FraggleRock said:
Bite the bullet... reducing by 80% makes the upkeep not do what it is designed to do (extract money from the over inflated economy) and leaves the bad feeling.

Just get rid of it!
Click to expand...
That's not what it's supposed to do. It's there to identify and remove abandoned Fleet Carriers from the game.
These things are large stations. With the nerfing of the costs, these things are already going to clutter up the game like grey nomads clogging the roads with their Winnebagos.
Without upkeep, the galaxy would look like a feral junkyard in no time.
 

KoteBR

KoteBR
THis is completely terrible! I'm sorry, I love Elite dangerous, and I have more than 115 days of palying this game (on Xbox), for nearly 4 to 5 years. I Disagreed with the acquisition value (3 billions would suffice: expensive enough for not everyone to buy, but not that expensive, without meaning). UPKEEP: WHY DID YOU GUYS INVENT , EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS? WHY? TO KEEP US PLAYING EVERYDAY ? NO! IT HAS TO GO. Everything in the game, you buy, outfit it, use it as long as you want, and sell it whenever you want, for 15% off the original payment. THIS IS STILL A GAME! I dont have to have an obligation to "keep" something I bought, because I'm afraid of losing it..what the heck????? This a terrible punishment system, for the love of GOD, forget about these ideas. DECOMISSIONG TIME TAX: again, nothing in the game is like this. I can buy a module or a ship, use it for 10 years, or 2 days, sell it and get the same 15% loss, anywehere in the galaxy. WHY should fleet carrier be different?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?WHY invent a complicated system that changes with time? Give me a good explanation and reasonable one, and I will say: "That's a good idea!". SRIOUSLY, I'm telling you guys.I was VERY anxious and excited about the fleet carrier announcemnt (And so everybody else). You changed almost erverything you announced at first (that'ts ok, still can be good), but now. all of this "incredible" ideas..they are DESTROYING the fleet carrier content. I tell you: a lot of people is disappointed with this (again), and they will abandon the game, for sure. To finish it up: YOu guys decided to apply upkeep cost (I hope this is compeltely taken off the game), but let's say it stay. THe most important question: Why should I buy a Fleet Carrier? What is in it FOR ME? Will I make EXTREMELY GREAT AMOUNT OF CREDITS so I can pay this upkeep cost (without having to come back and play everyday)? If I buy it for mining, FOR EXAMPLE, how can it help me and make me earn more money thatn playing in a small python by myself, in a few hours? You see the point here? NOTHING so far HAS showed a REAL utility for the fleet carrier, just a big, huge and terrible way of WASTING all your credits you acquired all of this years, and saying "Oh look, I have a fleet carrier, right? YOu can dock there buy some ships. But enjoy it while it last, because Iḿ running ou ot money and gonna have ot sell it soon!". What a great reward for not stop playing the game, huh??? You guys don't seem to understand that people, in general, dont play just this game. I, for instance, I play for a while, maybe 2,3 months, than stay away from the game for 4, 5 months playing something else, or not playing at all, than I decide to go back to Elite. Should I be punished for not logging in and making credits these period, and lose the thing I wasted 5 billions credit and more on it? Just because I wasn't feeling like playing the game for a while?!?! YOU'RE COMPLETELY WRONG WITH THIS UPKEEP AND DECOMISSIONGN IDEA!! Or maybe for example, I have the money, but I shouldnt buy the FC because I know I wont be playing enough time to keep it??! NICE!!! ( by the way, I have more than 5 bi, so I could buy it!).
 

CMDR MICHAEL AAGAARD

CMDR MICHAEL AAGAARD
Northpin said:
Decommission is a non-issue now with the greatly reduced Upkeep and UC on top of it
And it has to stay as a mechanism of removing the litter from the galaxy
Click to expand...
I've said it before, and i'll say it again. The whole argument that "The upkeep and decommission mechanic has to be there to get rid of unused carriers" only holds water when you don't look more closely and/or below the surface, and think carefully about for more than 5 seconds, especially when people (i can't remember if you have, and i don't want to spend hours looking for if you have or have not) have been telling people who don't want any upkeep or decommission, to "just load your carrier with enough credits to last a year or more on it's own".

If the vast majority, let's say between 75 and 80% or more of everyone who buys a carrier, loads enough credits on it to keep it going for a year or more, without them having to play, then the upkeep and decommission mechanic has failed in it's primary purpose (that is, getting rid of unused carriers.) Could be that there are other reasons behind their existence, other than realism and "immersion", that FDev don't want us to know about.

Why not just despawn a carrier that has not seen any use after 10 weeks?
 

TeeCeeGee

T
rennarda said:
That's good to hear (not that I'd ever be able to afford a carrier) - but the sheer scale of those changes makes you question how the original figures came to be chosen in the first place!
Click to expand...
Chin up, buddy. With a bit of knowledge the price isn't too much trouble - I took advantage of the long weekend and ground out the purchase price in four days.
I think the starting process made sense - they need to test the balance, so throw in high numbers to begin and work down from there.
If they'd made them almost nothing, they would have received the same amount of whining from people who want it handed to them for free. At least this way they can 'respond to the community' by lowering the prices. OMG can you imagine the tantrums if they'd started low and RAISED the costs?
All most would have been worth it for the hysterics! 😄
 

Northpin

Northpin
CMDR MICHAEL AAGAARD said:
I've said it before, and i'll say it again. The whole argument that "The upkeep and decommission mechanic has to be there to get rid of unused carriers" only holds water when you don't look more closely and/or below the surface, and think carefully about for more than 5 seconds, especially when people (i can't remember if you have, and i don't want to spend hours looking for if you have or have not) have been telling people who don't want any upkeep or decommission, to "just load your carrier with enough credits to last a year or more on it's own".

If the vast majority, let's say between 75 and 80% or more of everyone who buys a carrier, loads enough credits on it to keep it going for a year or more, without them having to play, then the upkeep and decommission mechanic has failed in it's primary purpose (that is, getting rid of unused carriers.) Could be that there are other reasons behind their existence, other than realism and "immersion", that FDev don't want us to know about.

Why not just despawn a carrier that has not seen any use after 10 weeks?
Click to expand...
IF that thing happens, i guess they will decommission not based on upkeep itself, but based on activity as well.
After all, they need to check a single thing - how often and how many arx were gained on that account.

But to go there, there should be a lot of pressure from the Galactic Ecologists.
Until then, lets hope the number of stuffed carriers, but not played at all, would be small enough
 

TeeCeeGee

T
CMDR MICHAEL AAGAARD said:
I've said it before, and i'll say it again. The whole argument that "The upkeep and decommission mechanic has to be there to get rid of unused carriers" only holds water when you don't look more closely and/or below the surface, and think carefully about for more than 5 seconds, especially when people (i can't remember if you have, and i don't want to spend hours looking for if you have or have not) have been telling people who don't want any upkeep or decommission, to "just load your carrier with enough credits to last a year or more on it's own".

If the vast majority, let's say between 75 and 80% or more of everyone who buys a carrier, loads enough credits on it to keep it going for a year or more, without them having to play, then the upkeep and decommission mechanic has failed in it's primary purpose (that is, getting rid of unused carriers.) Could be that there are other reasons behind their existence, other than realism and "immersion", that FDev don't want us to know about.

Why not just despawn a carrier that has not seen any use after 10 weeks?
Click to expand...

There's more than one way to define an 'unused' carrier.
I sometimes have to go many weeks without playing, so I have every intention of 'loading up' my carrier with money to cover the upkeep. How would having to log in to meet the activity requirements be any less onerous than having to log in to top up the carrier's bank balance.
At least I can spend a session building funds and then leave it for a while. An activity requirement would decommission a carrier no matter how much effort I put in the last time I was able to log in, just as punishment for not turning up within a mandatory period.
Seems this is less about methods of identifying unused carriers and more about your preference for a free way to avoid upkeep.
 

CMDR MICHAEL AAGAARD

CMDR MICHAEL AAGAARD
TeeCeeGee said:
There's more than one way to define an 'unused' carrier.
I sometimes have to go many weeks without playing, so I have every intention of 'loading up' my carrier with money to cover the upkeep. How would having to log in to meet the activity requirements be any less onerous than having to log in to top up the carrier's bank balance.
At least I can spend a session building funds and then leave it for a while. An activity requirement would decommission a carrier no matter how much effort I put in the last time I was able to log in, just as punishment for not turning up within a mandatory period.
Seems this is less about methods of identifying unused carriers and more about your preference for a free way to avoid upkeep.
Click to expand...
Please point out to me where i said that a carrier should be decommissioned if a player has not played in x amount of time.

If i had to define an 'unused' carrier: Then it would be where the owner or other players have not interacted with the carrier in x amount of time.
 

Will Geteven

W
Stephen Benedetti said:
Greetings Commanders!


Thank you for testing the prototype Drake-Class Fleet Carriers brought to you by the Brewer Corporation. Since the beta's launch, we've been carefully reading and discussing your feedback and are ready to share the upcoming changes. We look forward to hearing more of what you think for the remainder of Beta 1 and in Beta 2 coming next month. All changes are subject to further balancing based on future feedback.


Here are the changes coming this week:
  • The upkeep cost for all additional services will be reduced by 80-90%.
  • Core running costs will be reduced by 50%
Fleet Carriers represent a big investment, with a lot of crew and resources involved. After hearing your concerns, we've reduced the upkeep to a more sustainable level. The total running costs for a Fleet Carrier with all services active will be reduced by a total of 85.5%.

  • The debt threshold has been updated in line with the upkeep changes. This means with all services installed, a carrier can go 10 weeks (up from 4) without paying upkeep before being issued a final warning.
This is designed to relieve the pressure of carrier management, leaving more time for focus on other activities. While the debt threshold will be lower, Fleet Carrier owners will have more time to maintain the upkeep costs.

  • The total upfront activation costs of some of the more expensive services will be reduced by 35-45%.
Along with the upkeep changes, this reduces the overall outfitting and maintenance costs of Fleet Carriers.

  • The time between jumps will be dramatically decreased by only requiring 15 minutes for jump preparation and 5 minutes to cool-down.
More frequent jumps will increase the utility of Fleet Carriers overall, allowing them to enhance the owner and visitors' game-play more easily.


The two changes below will come in the second beta. Additional changes can be expected as more feedback comes in:
  • Universal Cartographics will become available as an optional service.
Similar to Bounty Vouchers, a cut of 25% which will be split 50/50 between the Fleet Carrier's bank and the service, will be taken from any data sold on the Fleet Carrier. This means owners will effectively only be charged a fee of 12.5% on their own Fleet Carrier. This service will otherwise be the same as Universal Cartographics services found on stations.

  • Tritium will be made at least 2x more effective as a fuel.
In combination with a reduced preparation and cool-down time, this should improve long distance Fleet Carrier travel.


We're excited to hear what you think of these changes and seeing them in action for the remainder of Beta 1. Thank you for all of your valuable feedback which has helped shape these changes and will drive the rest of the changes made throughout the rest of the beta period. As mentioned above, this next beta will take place in May, and will be available to Xbox and PlayStation as well as PC players.


Thanks again, Commanders!

o7
Click to expand...
Thanks for listening to the community. Just to get a couple of things straight....I buy a FC and everything in it. All the ships, all the equipment, all the services are paid by me. Now I understand the concept of having a crew and paying for them, but one that doesn't recognise the owner? You have to mine for Tritium which requires limpets but I have to buy the limpets I already own in order to keep the ship moving? If any of my ships need repair, I have to pay again to repair the ship although I employ everyone that does the work? How many times must we buy the services or am I missing something. If I have to incur the upkeep of the ship then I want free run of the ship. I want the dalek flight controller to recognise me. I want a bridge that I can view. I want Tritium to be at least 4 times more effective than what is proposed. As I understand it, this is a very costly trailer. I go off in one of my ships to places unknown, then summon the ship to my position. So having spent billions on the thing, I cannot ride in style aboard it or experience its many comforts? Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick but that is how it looks to me
 

ebbrell

ebbrell
im a little bit surprised anyone can have a carrier with out a federal or empire rank.
thinking about it, I have to be a certain rank to get a corvette but not a carrier.

there are ranks about the rank required for the corvette, should be people need to get the top rank first in order to get one?
maybe a 4bil price tag afterwards.

shame we don't have 2 or 3 variants, federal and empire at least
 

George Vonka

G
KoteBR said:
THis is completely terrible! I'm sorry, I love Elite dangerous, and I have more than 115 days of palying this game (on Xbox), for nearly 4 to 5 years. I Disagreed with the acquisition value (3 billions would suffice: expensive enough for not everyone to buy, but not that expensive, without meaning). UPKEEP: WHY DID YOU GUYS INVENT , EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS? WHY? TO KEEP US PLAYING EVERYDAY ? NO! IT HAS TO GO. Everything in the game, you buy, outfit it, use it as long as you want, and sell it whenever you want, for 15% off the original payment. THIS IS STILL A GAME! I dont have to have an obligation to "keep" something I bought, because I'm afraid of losing it..what the heck????? This a terrible punishment system, for the love of GOD, forget about these ideas. DECOMISSIONG TIME TAX: again, nothing in the game is like this. I can buy a module or a ship, use it for 10 years, or 2 days, sell it and get the same 15% loss, anywehere in the galaxy. WHY should fleet carrier be different?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?WHY invent a complicated system that changes with time? Give me a good explanation and reasonable one, and I will say: "That's a good idea!". SRIOUSLY, I'm telling you guys.I was VERY anxious and excited about the fleet carrier announcemnt (And so everybody else). You changed almost erverything you announced at first (that'ts ok, still can be good), but now. all of this "incredible" ideas..they are DESTROYING the fleet carrier content. I tell you: a lot of people is disappointed with this (again), and they will abandon the game, for sure. To finish it up: YOu guys decided to apply upkeep cost (I hope this is compeltely taken off the game), but let's say it stay. THe most important question: Why should I buy a Fleet Carrier? What is in it FOR ME? Will I make EXTREMELY GREAT AMOUNT OF CREDITS so I can pay this upkeep cost (without having to come back and play everyday)? If I buy it for mining, FOR EXAMPLE, how can it help me and make me earn more money thatn playing in a small python by myself, in a few hours? You see the point here? NOTHING so far HAS showed a REAL utility for the fleet carrier, just a big, huge and terrible way of WASTING all your credits you acquired all of this years, and saying "Oh look, I have a fleet carrier, right? YOu can dock there buy some ships. But enjoy it while it last, because Iḿ running ou ot money and gonna have ot sell it soon!". What a great reward for not stop playing the game, huh??? You guys don't seem to understand that people, in general, dont play just this game. I, for instance, I play for a while, maybe 2,3 months, than stay away from the game for 4, 5 months playing something else, or not playing at all, than I decide to go back to Elite. Should I be punished for not logging in and making credits these period, and lose the thing I wasted 5 billions credit and more on it? Just because I wasn't feeling like playing the game for a while?!?! YOU'RE COMPLETELY WRONG WITH THIS UPKEEP AND DECOMISSIONGN IDEA!! Or maybe for example, I have the money, but I shouldnt buy the FC because I know I wont be playing enough time to keep it??! NICE!!! ( by the way, I have more than 5 bi, so I could buy it!).
Click to expand...
Thats correct. I'm casual player myself, so I do agree with you.

We are missing to share the upkeep with Squadron, I thought, It's obsious ! Tell me a reason why not ?
Upkeep cost should be same as for ships, repairs and fuel, than paying some eployees, like refinery workers, dock workers and thats it. We pilot it ourselves, why should we pay some extra pointless upkeep costs ? It's ours § We have bought it, its not loaned.
 

CodexNecro81

CodexNecro81
SirMaxxx said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if your FC is decommissioned, you still get your money back (less some expenses) and your modules transferred - so it actually just costs you some money - what's the biggie? You cant play for a while, you come back online and buy another fleet carrier. Sure you may need to grind to top up your cash first - but you know what they say...
Never fly without a rebuy
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply, however the reasoning is wrong:
As it stands, and excluding upkeep, the cash back would be down to 33% after 3 months, and always far away from Colonia or the main bubble as I would take it out exploring, so adding losses of about 1M/ly to that would wipe out the remainder value in a couple thousand ly - so little to no money back.
Also from an investment point of view, there's no way to get even 66% of it's value in any meaningful way other than depending on credit donations using inside trading (good thing that pilot's federation, factions, organizaions and seemingly everybody else have zero oversight on economic crimes, otherwise we would be wanted in all sectors in no time) - with no other gameplay to it I would rather invest my time and credits in something else on this game other than "Elite - 2nd mortgage online"
 
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