ANNOUNCEMENT Fleet Carriers - Content Reveal Recap

Firstly fdev, WOW, what an amazing reveal, these look so much better than the original concept, massive well done to the whole team, just a few questions / requests:
1. Price - please reconsider lowering this to 2/3 billion so affordable to more commanders, and/or please consider discounts for triple-elite, admirals and kings.
2. Universal Cartographics - please add this if it isn't already there, it would be huge oversight or disservice to explorers to omit it.
3. Deck Officer - can you change them if you don't like them as this is only staff member not mentioned as changeable?
 
A) What happens when the solo player is playing ? Do other players visit your carrier ?

B) Wing missions eventually were made accessible to solo players, but NOT with NPC wingmen.

C) Not arguing about that point.

D) As a KickStarter backer I know it was marketed as a multiplayer game. But it was also marketed as a solo game, and as such I object to exclusive multiplayer content when there is no equivalent content for the solo player. CQC, Wings and Multicrew could all have been given an NPC option, but they were not, and FCs is yet another case.

A)Other players can visit your carrier when you're playing, or even when you're not playing. They're persistent across all modes 24/7. So if you decide to hop to another system, other folks can go with you even if you never see them.

B and D) to involve NPCs in this stuff will involve a significant investment in development time and coding, and if they at any point took time to do this up to now, there'd be a lot less existing content. There's also no guarantee they won't still include it, but it's not exactly top priority. Or...it may be. We have no concrete information about what's coming in the paid update. Given they have a habit of adding features they forgot to mention in the announcements prior to launch (A market and commodity storage on the carrier, for example), it wouldn't surprise me terribly.
 
and the fact that there is only enough fuel for 2 jumps, which makes it almost useless for researchers.
There's 25000units of space, where you can store your fuel. The fuel tank appears to be enough for 2 jumps. Edit - theres a fuel depot, not sure what it does though.

One wonders if the fuel tank can be upgraded, and a route of jumps scheduled, allowing hands off jumping quite quickly ...
 
To date there has NEVER been an update that is only for solo players.
Passengers? Really very little a friend can do to help you with those. Maybe distract security scans on your final approach, but with careful timing you can get NPCs to do that too.

I'm not sure how an update could be "only for solo players", though - Engineering for example your engineered ship is exactly the same whether you're on your own or in a giant squadron, and makes it easier to do certain tasks solo which otherwise would really need a wing, but it's not "only for solo".

And if I’m selling commodities, what’s stopping players from buggering off to the lowest buy price on EDDB instead? If I’m BUYING commodities from people, and actually want to make a profit from it, why would anyone stop at my carrier instead of just loading up their own and taking it to the highest sell, again on EDDB?
Well, if you're doing something with the carrier that people find useful, they can use carrier services to give you a bit of money towards the upkeep. So e.g. if you're shipping bulk cargo out to repair Witch Head, your colleagues can sell the cargo to the market, buy it off at the other end, and the taxes you charge pay for the jump - they get the cargo moved into place more easily, and you're not funding the whole operation yourself.

That said, there are some opportunities for more direct profits from people you aren't working for, because you can play with time and distance as well as raw costs in a way that you can't with a conventional ship. Stick a carrier next to a refinery port, buying insulating membrane (typically sells for 10k) at 12k/tonne. That's 2k/tonne profit without even leaving the system, so people will take that up as easy money. Once the carrier's cargo holds are full, jump it to an industrial system in Infrastructure Failure - ideally an isolated one - where the Insulating Membrane will sell for 20k/tonne. Stick it up for sale on your market at 18k/tonne, offering people again the chance for 2k/tonne without leaving the system, and you've made 6k/tonne profit on it for the cost of one jump and without having to haul any of it yourself. The people using your market are making a tidy profit too, so it's win-win.

Same sort of thing would apply if trade CGs ever come back - stick the carrier in a system with lots of the right goods but too far away for direct CG haulage to be practical, pay people 1k/tonne to load it up, then jump near to the CG station and set a price above normal market rates but below the local selling price.

Or - going back to station repairs, buy a bunch of Beryllium yourself at normal prices, stick it on the market at cost, then jump next to a repairing station and put it up for sale at just short of the local sell price - people will snap it up just to avoid having to travel for it.

The bonds service could be very useful in systems with all stations owned by the same faction, so that people fighting against them can cash in despite being hostile. Popular demand, now there's a way to do it.

Outfitting/Shipyard people might well pay a little bit extra for the convenience, if you were in the right place - head out to Explorers' Anchorage and sell some modules the local station doesn't, and you can probably stick a 20% markup on them easily, maybe more.

500LY of ship transfer costs is pretty expensive for big ships, so maybe there's a market there for undercutting the NPCs but still charging something?

People keep saying that there should be a megaship ferry to Colonia and back, so maybe they'd pay you to run one?

Wait for someone else to get their carrier stuck in a system they can't refuel it from, fuel your carrier up to jump in and out, put a load of Tritium on the normal market at a 5x markup for them to buy?

I've probably missed plenty of options.

Why no universal cartographics for a fleet carrier?

An exploration carrier without that is pretty useless.
I think people are underestimating the potential uses of a deep space repair, outfitting and shipyard service for explorers. Sure, it would have been extremely powerful to include UC as well ... but the rest of the services are pretty useful in the right context. (And funding such a remote carrier might keep the logistics fans from the First Great Expedition happy, if any of them are still about)
While I am on the fence about it, and certainly anticipated a UC: Exploration is nearly risk free, even more so with a carrier nearby. This low-risk is offset by having extreme losses when it does go wrong. If you can sell all your data whenever you want, there is almost no risk of something going wrong and no real consequences when it does go wrong. Not sure about that from a balance perspective: low-risk-low-consequences isn't the usual target.
For a start, you could have exploration content which wasn't nearly risk free even to a paper ship. If you can refit your ship out in the black, then they can start adding hazardous environments and environments that require specialist equipment, that yield valuable exploration data (and you can sell Codex vouchers to a properly-fitted carrier), which you wouldn't necessarily want to haul all the way from the bubble just on the off-chance you might need them.

At the moment it's not worth the risk, so there's not much point in them adding really dangerous content. If later on you can land at a deep space carrier, sell it a bunch of mined goods to help pay its operating costs, then load up on HRPs and a big shield generator - again, for a cut to the operator - to go poke the Angry Lightning Bark Mound or Thargoid Ruins or whatever it is, that opens up a whole range of exploration possibilities. (Big hope: this is why the Codex rumours never showed up - they have some content of this sort that's been stuck since 3.3 waiting for the Fleet Carrier to provide the other half. You never know...)

I've been on expeditions where just having a Restock depot following us around would have been handy, never mind the rest of the services, so we didn't have to be so cautious with our SRVs, so formal expeditions - which are generally slow enough that the carrier's speed is fine - should get some nice benefits from this, too. Even if the carrier doesn't have Repair itself, in the worst case a badly damaged exploration ship could be rescued back to a port by the carrier.
 
I think refuel problem can be solved ...a bit kinda. U do maximum cago miners x4, mine rocks, fuel to full FC, then mine to full crago each of 4 ships.
Then later u can use those ships to recharge FC asap. Maybe you can put tritium to 25000 cargo as well. But still ... it is mining a lot.

I know. I think my favourite bit about carriers is how the gameplay meshes with mining in such an engaging way.
 
I am an explorer and I don't see in what a FC would be helpfull :

  • I can't sell my datas
  • I will jump faster and further than my FC (800ly in ten jump with my conda)
  • I have a market but no potential buyer outside the bubble (or so few)
  • I have to pay 10mil/weeks
  • No exploration tools??

What's the point??
 
Now that these auxiliary ships have been canned, let us choose between their models for our FC. I find this FC kinda ugly but liked the exploration auxiliary one.
 
Why can a fleet carrier only jump once every 2 hours (1hr cooldown, 1hr windup) but capitol ships can jump into a CZ and then leave within the same oh.... ~30 minutes or less?
Make the cooldown and windup 10-15 minutes. Then it might have some use for explorers. Also if the Ly jump range is a 1-1 with the tritium fuel, that’s going to suck grinding for long distance travel.
 
I mean, yeah, I liked what I saw and I'm really pleased to see some development at last.

A couple of concerns - the whole exploration thing, no way to sell your data? Really?

Also, if the Elite world was real, and you could afford a Carrier - wouldn't you probably be buying it as something that would at least pay for itself? I maybe missed something but it seemed like the money you can or might make would just help to offset the running costs. If so, why would anybody buy one, except to say, see that? It's mine! :-/

Don't call it a Carrier - Call it a cash hemorrhage. :) Seriously, what would an Elite Commander be buying one for?

Would it not be better if with competent management the Carrier could at least break even, and with some innovation turn in a tidy profit.

I'm a solo player so the lack of NPC involvement seems like poor treatment, and its inclusion would surely help address the cash loss issue by bringing in some fairly reliable trade.
 
Why can a fleet carrier only jump once every 2 hours (1hr cooldown, 1hr windup) but capitol ships can jump into a CZ and then leave within the same oh.... ~30 minutes or less?
Make the cooldown and windup 10-15 minutes. Then it might have some use for explorers. Also if the Ly jump range is a 1-1 with the tritium fuel, that’s going to suck grinding for long distance travel.

If i had to guess its cause they dont want long range exploration to be a carrier activity.
 
2 hours between jumps (1 hour cooldown + 1 hour preparation) is far too much.

I wanted to buy my carrier in Colonia and go back to the bubble on it with the three whips I have in Colonia.

With the current two hours, It will take me 88 hours to come back to the bubble. It took me about 10 hours to reach Colonia and I made it in a combat fitted Krait Mk 2 wich jumped only 36 LY.

I think its way too much, an adequate time would be maybe 10 minutes for cooldown and 10 minutes to prepare the jump.

The other features of the carrier are very interesting by the way, but again Frontier have to change the jump and cooldown times
 
There are so many unanswered questions that I am currently still underwhelmed. How much does tritium cost and where it is mined, ie ice rings, what is the output. Is it rare or are there plenty of supply. I don't like the maintenance cost, I think it is too high. I really don't like the spin up and cool down times and I think they are way too long. If I want to jump 4LY does it take the same fuel as 500LY. And, finally, I am still totally philosophically opposed to the idea of someone losing an asset they paid for. I do think you need to totally rethink this decommissioning issue. It is an extremely negative part of fleet carriers and as much as you try to minimize it, it is persistently a huge negative issue with almost all of the players that I have spoken with.
 
I can't sell my datas
if there is no Universal Cartographcs "module", how deep explorers or rescue operations would survive the upkeep?
I think... of course one of the ideas of many Commanders was to leave the Bubble for good and explore using FC and bit more than just one ship, at the same time helping others in need in Deep Space
if Universal Cartographcs is included and was just missed in the reveal - fine. If it is not included - please consider including it, because for explorers it seems like a must.. or?
 
A couple of points that stand out without even looking in too much detail
1) The lack of Universal Cartographics is a huge omission, and you should really consider revisiting this
2) The jump times are way way off for gameplay purposes, I would suggest a minute or two to jump then half an hour or an hours cool down before you can jump again sometimes you have to sacrifice realism to make something useful and entertaining
As it stands at the moment I just can't see the game-play benefits for one of these at the moment bar just being a place to store my ships, modules and mining commodities
 
if there is no Universal Cartographcs "module", how deep explorers or rescue operations would survive the upkeep?
I think... of course one of the ideas of many Commanders was to leave the Bubble for good and explore using FC and bit more than just one ship, at the same time helping others in need in Deep Space
if Universal Cartographcs is included and was just missed in the reveal - fine. If it is not included - please consider including it, because for explorers it seems like a must.. or?

Right now, among explorers, this appears to be the current largest concern. It's at least the talk of the Discords I'm a part of as well as Borann system chat (which, as an aside, has been one of the best experiences of the LTD Rush of 3306).

A concern being voiced by combat-oriented players is that even the trivial upkeep may become a problem without those players having to play the game the way they don't want to play (i.e. running missions/bounties/etc.) To be fair, they have a point. Payout for combat-related activities does not seem to be on par with exploration or mining (and nothing seems to be on par with LTD mining).

I like the concept, but it seems like it's an important beta in which to participate and voice concerns/opinions/observations.
 
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