ANNOUNCEMENT Fleet Carriers - Content Reveal Recap

Yeh ...mining would be cool, but what to do with ore? Dump in space to free place ? :D
...and services ... well, as I said Anaconda has all on board. I can fix you in deep space if ever meet you, however, that will never happen - space is too big.
..are you ready to pay 10mil/week to fix that 1 commander which will find you 2 years later?

Oh, and yeah the upkeep; sure, I will just throw 4 or 5 billion in the FC account, no worries on that. Just need to get there before I die of old age.
 
Oh, and yeah the upkeep; sure, I will just throw 4 or 5 billion in the FC account, no worries on that. Just need to get there before I die of old age.
Ye ...mine at beagle point, bring it to bubble to sell and see that everybody around mine the same exact and prices are low :D
 
Yeh ...mining would be cool, but what to do with ore? Dump in space to free place ? :D
...and services ... well, as I said Anaconda has all on board. I can fix you in deep space if ever meet you, however, that will never happen - space is too big.
..are you ready to pay 10mil/week to fix that 1 commander which will find you 2 years later?

Advertise it and they will trickle in out in the black (once in a while maybe). More with cartography
 
Ye ...mine at beagle point, bring it to bubble to sell and see that everybody around mine the same exact and prices are low :D

I have no problems making coin mining. Go figure. It will fine. Have made billions in plain exploration cr's as well. Not worried on that account.
 
The lack of Universal Cartographics on Fleet Carrier worries me. I might be wrong but said missing feature makes FC not very useful for exploration unless it's for transporting people with ships not fit for traveling long distances; in what instances would that be useful?
1. combat builds for fighting what in deep space? there's basically no threat from neither npc nor players unless it's an open play expetition.
2. mining? yeah maybe you might find some ludicrus 7 hotspots of LTD overlapping in the middle of nowhere... is that even possible? probably there is a more profitable option close to the bubble. But overall, for mining to make money while out exploring the deep space still useful yeah.
3. trading? sure

Anyway back to lack of UC on the FC. I have a few ideas which might be stupid but i guess this is the best time for brainstorming.

First of all i have a missing piece of info: once you own a FC, say you are in deep space, far away from Colonia and the Bubble, you die while in your ship. What happens? Do you respawn in Colonia, Bubble, the closest human enclave or do you spawn in your FC if nearby?

The above question is relevant to this idea: what if once you own a FC your exploration data is stored on the FC, therefor if you die while in your ship(with your FC nearby) you don't lose your data?
You only lose you data if you FC goes into debt/gets decommissioned/is too far away.
This would sort of compensate for not being able to sell the exploration data while in deep space.
A downsite to this would be: someone that goes back sooner to a normal starport to sell the data of the same systems you have discovered but not yet "signed in your name" will get their name on those systems/planets before you.
Meaning if you stay out for say 1 year and accumulate 1 year worth of data, many players that might have been in the same unexplorerd systems as you and might have already gone back and signed their names on said systems/planets. So it is sort of a double downside: you don't get your name on them(which is one of the coolest thing in exploration) and get less profit from the data(no first discoverer bonus).
If those 2 downsides are not considered enough for the safety of the data maybe also add upkeep cost to store the exploration data on the FC.

Another messy idea i have is: once you own a FC, you are surely in the Bubble at first. You have to chose a spaceport with which you'll make a contract that says you can only sell exploration data to that station while you are in deep space. This would prevent you to use the sale of exploration data to gain reputation in different factions which is quite useful.
I get this is not a big enough downside because probably a FC owner is already over that part of the game so maybe you might add that you profit will be less if you sell from deepspace or that the value of your exploration data depends on the power that said faction holds back in the Bubble which would mean it would be important to have a group of players in the Bubble allied with the explorers players out in deep space that can keep that faction's influence high.

Yet another idea: Once you get rank Elite in Explorer you unlock a "permit" to be able to sell exploration data from the FC.

Other questions i have are:
How many FCs can be "docked" in one system? How many around one planet? Does it depend on size of said planet?
What if a Commander wants to keep the location of his/her FC private for reason of faction conflict or similar? This might be an irrelevant problem because i don't know the game well enough.
If i send my FC by remote command to an unexplored system, does that action claim discovery of the main star by me or do i have to be there myself with the normal ship?
How much Tritium per light year of travel?
Can i charge the frameshift drive of the F.C. with a neutron star?
Can a fellow player bring only 1 ship onto my FC or more?
I'm lacking info for this but it seems that if i have ship packages and certain modules packages on a FC that still doesn't allow for a player to buy a stock ship from a FC and kit it out enough to be useful. If this is the case does it mean you need to have modules ready for transfer in storage from the Bubble or have multiple FCs in the area with different modules packges available?

One bit of feedback on the jump effect for the FC: it was underwhelming mostly sound wise but also visually. The Capital class ships of the Federation and Empire have an imposing sound like a war horn. I get it, they are warships but it really gives the idea of the massive potential they carry. The FC which is not the same but not far from them has a really chill jump aspect in comparison :D.

Forgive me for the outpour of thoughts and my bad english. If it is even a tiny bit helpful to make the game better i guess it's worth.
 
I was initially skeptical of FCs but, I have changed my mind.

For the individual solo explorer, yes I see no reason for them. That being said I can see a sparse but present web of FCs spread out across the black. And using either the in map filters or possibly Inara to find them. This would be a great tool the Rats and Seals and the lone explorer. For heat sink restock if you don't have mats or a quick hull patch if you would rather travel than wait for a Seal to come out. Maybe one of the stations may stock eagles for the desire to canyon run.

I primarily focus on BGS and even though there is no direct influence, I see many ways to utilize them in BGS. For systems with only planetside pads or no large pads, the FCs would allow for operations in the system. And do not get me started on PP. These things are capable of wrecking PP and that means it will make some movement possible.

Combat...well that would be useful to mainly putting a pad closer to possible CZs than a station maybe. Or again if no large pads are in system

Basically, I see tons of use for them. I don't think that FDev explains things well or even play test enough to imagine what could be done with in-game features. I have even heard suggested using them as a scheduled ferry out to Hutton. The point is let us use our imagination and I think that we will find tons of uses.
 
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I have no problems making coin mining. Go figure. It will fine. Have made billions in plain exploration cr's as well. Not worried on that account.
It's just useless currently except fancy. Everything FC supposed to do NPC do better, furthermore, FC relay on NPC. Because NPC "create" credits out of nothing. FC can't do that. So FC will never be better then NPC.
Somebody on streams supposed to put FC on mining spot and deliver convenient sell out for cmdrs for lower price, then resell to npc .. well if cmdrs want such convenience, they don't need to wait FC. Almost each high buying system has own LTD spot, like I found 100ls distance spot/station. And just spend a day there.
...and long range usage out of bubble is highly limited too by fuel/time. And out of bubble there are no npcs, so most of service on FC are useless again bcs it relays on surrounding NPC.
 
The lack of Universal Cartographics on Fleet Carrier worries me. I might be wrong but said missing feature makes FC not very useful for exploration unless it's for transporting people with ships not fit for traveling long distances; in what instances would that be useful?
1. combat builds for fighting what in deep space? there's basically no threat from neither npc nor players unless it's an open play expetition.
2. mining? yeah maybe you might find some ludicrus 7 hotspots of LTD overlapping in the middle of nowhere... is that even possible? probably there is a more profitable option close to the bubble. But overall, for mining to make money while out exploring the deep space still useful yeah.
3. trading? sure

Anyway back to lack of UC on the FC. I have a few ideas which might be stupid but i guess this is the best time for brainstorming.

First of all i have a missing piece of info: once you own a FC, say you are in deep space, far away from Colonia and the Bubble, you die while in your ship. What happens? Do you respawn in Colonia, Bubble, the closest human enclave or do you spawn in your FC if nearby?

The above question is relevant to this idea: what if once you own a FC your exploration data is stored on the FC, therefor if you die while in your ship(with your FC nearby) you don't lose your data?
You only lose you data if you FC goes into debt/gets decommissioned/is too far away.
This would sort of compensate for not being able to sell the exploration data while in deep space.
A downsite to this would be: someone that goes back sooner to a normal starport to sell the data of the same systems you have discovered but not yet "signed in your name" will get their name on those systems/planets before you.
Meaning if you stay out for say 1 year and accumulate 1 year worth of data, many players that might have been in the same unexplorerd systems as you and might have already gone back and signed their names on said systems/planets. So it is sort of a double downside: you don't get your name on them(which is one of the coolest thing in exploration) and get less profit from the data(no first discoverer bonus).
If those 2 downsides are not considered enough for the safety of the data maybe also add upkeep cost to store the exploration data on the FC.

Another messy idea i have is: once you own a FC, you are surely in the Bubble at first. You have to chose a spaceport with which you'll make a contract that says you can only sell exploration data to that station while you are in deep space. This would prevent you to use the sale of exploration data to gain reputation in different factions which is quite useful.
I get this is not a big enough downside because probably a FC owner is already over that part of the game so maybe you might add that you profit will be less if you sell from deepspace or that the value of your exploration data depends on the power that said faction holds back in the Bubble which would mean it would be important to have a group of players in the Bubble allied with the explorers players out in deep space that can keep that faction's influence high.

Yet another idea: Once you get rank Elite in Explorer you unlock a "permit" to be able to sell exploration data from the FC.

Other questions i have are:
How many FCs can be "docked" in one system? How many around one planet? Does it depend on size of said planet?
What if a Commander wants to keep the location of his/her FC private for reason of faction conflict or similar? This might be an irrelevant problem because i don't know the game well enough.
If i send my FC by remote command to an unexplored system, does that action claim discovery of the main star by me or do i have to be there myself with the normal ship?
How much Tritium per light year of travel?
Can i charge the frameshift drive of the F.C. with a neutron star?
Can a fellow player bring only 1 ship onto my FC or more?
I'm lacking info for this but it seems that if i have ship packages and certain modules packages on a FC that still doesn't allow for a player to buy a stock ship from a FC and kit it out enough to be useful. If this is the case does it mean you need to have modules ready for transfer in storage from the Bubble or have multiple FCs in the area with different modules packges available?

One bit of feedback on the jump effect for the FC: it was underwhelming mostly sound wise but also visually. The Capital class ships of the Federation and Empire have an imposing sound like a war horn. I get it, they are warships but it really gives the idea of the massive potential they carry. The FC which is not the same but not far from them has a really chill jump aspect in comparison :D.

Forgive me for the outpour of thoughts and my bad english. If it is even a tiny bit helpful to make the game better i guess it's worth.

I like several of your ideas, and your English is better than many I read here.
 
It's just useless currently except fancy. Everything FC supposed to do NPC do better, furthermore, FC relay on NPC. Because NPC "create" credits out of nothing. FC can't do that. So FC will never be better then NPC.
Somebody on streams supposed to put FC on mining spot and deliver convenient sell out for cmdrs for lower price, then resell to npc .. well if cmdrs want such convenience, they don't need to wait FC. Almost each high buying system has own LTD spot, like I found 100ls distance spot/station. And just spend a day there.
...and long range usage out of bubble is highly limited too by fuel/time. And out of bubble there are no npcs, so most of service on FC are useless again bcs it relays on surrounding NPC.

Yeah, still if I am in the bubble, having all my ships in one mobile place one jump to anywhere in the bubble is really useful. Someone else mentioned this thing really is a PP killer. We'll see though. Mostly, I really like the idea of having my ships available wherever I happen to be. If I pay a premium for that okay, just fix the awful 2 hr jump thing and really give it multi jump ability. I'll take it from there.
 
If 0% Tariffs = the price inside of stations, there is literally no reason to buy anything from a carrier that has any tariffs above that value if you're inside the bubble. It's usually not hard to find a system nearby that has the stuff you want, and you're not likely to go out of your way to check a carrier in a random system for it before you just check EDDB instead, anyway. And that is ignoring the fact that Jameson exists, which just makes this even worse.

I think stations should be considered to have a certain rate of tariffs inherently, before any given discount. Let's say, for the sake of example, 20%. This becomes the new standard Tariff rate for any player-owned Fleet Carrier. The lower below that you go, the more business you attract, but the less money you make from it. It makes sense since stations need to make money too off the things they sell to us.

Now, it's not necessarily a race down to 0%, as you can still viably make money off of 5% without scaring people away to stations or other carriers, but people will also naturally still gravitate to stations as they're generally easier to find. And people outside The Bubble get to jack their prices higher than 20% to make more profit, still, without screwing over the majority of players who play in The Bubble but still want to be interested in Carriers.

The mindset of "Carriers aren't replacing stations" needs a good hard looking into because frankly, I think they should definitely compete with stations. They shouldn't do everything a station can, but they should certainly do somethings better. Otherwise, what's the point?
 
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Fleet Carriers provide new opportunities to interact with existing systems and we're excited to see what you achieve with them!

Yea, that's what I’m worried about. The existing systems aren't very interesting, exciting or lucrative to interact with. Many have decried the failings of powerplay and I'm not about to start. Maybe carriers will be integral in a rework of it in the future. Without NPC interactions, carrier commodity traffic is completely reliant on the player economy, that is the play time of human beings, to do anything and players don’t really interact with each other economically outside of BGS and certainly not with credits. Until now. I’m more excited to see what Fdev adds to the game to make carriers interesting tools, but that's not what you said.

Q. How might an explorer fund their Fleet Carrier's upkeep costs?

  1. By grinding a lot now because they will not be able to use their explore data credit faucet from their carrier.

Am I understanding correctly? Stop me if I am wrong but if you take a fleet carrier and isolate it from all other infrastructure, the only source of income its owner has is what others provide by using its services, what they bring into this isolation. Its owner and denizens cannot generate any income because the game activity they are partaking in requires an NPC station. Is that correct? If an NPC station was desirable, then they would not have dragged a carrier out there! Sometimes I wonder if designers can have the same aspirations players do or if things just get rejected out of hand due to one unspoken reason or another and damned be the optics. Can’t break the masquerade. Aspire with us please.

Add Cartographics.

Your answer included an allusion to using the carrier as a trading post. I have always been interested in this idea but I don’t want to make 60 trips in my cutter just to say, “look ma, my carrier makes money.” Maybe I just don’t see it but trading profits are so narrow as they are, I wonder if there would be any profit (outside of BGS manipulation, so for credit activity only) could be made with carrier funded trading over any other ingame activity. We are talking about two short trips and expenses vs one long trip when the profit per trip has trouble competing with an Adder with an abrasion blaster.

Q. How do you obtain Tritium?

A. Tritium cannot be refined from other minerals and is instead obtained from directly mining ice asteroids, or being purchased from some starports.

How exactly is it mined? Will hot spots matter? Will ring quality matter? Will specific tools matter? DETAILS! There is also a part of me that wants the NPC sell price for Tritium to be somewhat high so that a player driven jump fuel economy is formed that does not simply exist to undercut the price ceiling set by Fdev. Yes, I just advocated for carrier operations to be more expensive but sometimes your currency just inflates, hint hint.

I’m assuming the carrier owner can use open capacity as expanded fuel storage? (transfer to reserve after jump to keep jumping)

Q. Will Fleet Carriers be persistent in the universe? Even if you are offline or play in Solo Mode?

  1. Fleet Carriers themselves are persistent in the galaxy across all game modes, whether you are online or not, and player ships docked at one are subject to the usual normal game mode and matchmaking rules.

I find this funny because it means the Pad capacity is just cosmetic. An entire squadron can jump on the same carrier if they are all in solo or didn’t instance together. Was that intentional cause it sounds like fun.


Q. Can you sell Guardian Weapons or Modules from a Fleet Carrier?

A. No.

Outfitting

  • Allows visiting Commanders to purchase, sell, and store modules at the Fleet Carrier.
  • Module Stock- The Outfitting service can be stocked with a wide variety of module selections available in varying tiers of quality. This allows the owner to customise what others can purchase from their Carrier as they see fit.

I sense a contradiction. I see fit to provide state of the art solutions to today’s and tomorrow's threats. And in ED, that means personal narrative weapons. Part of the reason to have mobile, customizable, premium (tariffed), outfitting, is to customize it with what the owner thinks it should have in the situation the carrier has deployed to. A carrier in a Witch head senario without AX hardware (Guardian inclusive) is a carrier that isn’t adding much. I as strongly as possible insist to the threshold of politeness that you, Fdev, reconsider. I would like to stock whatever the F I want.


Q. What happened to the support vessels?

Yea, they needed to be cut cause I’m not really sure what they were supposed to “do.” However, I would like the carrier to have its own patrols. System Auth can hang around if they want to but even if they are not there, I would like ships, my ships? around my ship.


Q. Will a log of Fleet Carrier actions be kept, similar to the CMDR journal for player actions?

Q. Will a CarrierLog.journal file of Carrier operations be kept, similar to other outputs used by tools?


So far, it appears as expected, disappointing. A carrier is a player owned mega ship which is cool in and of itself, but seems to be surgically missing the features that would make such a thing interesting or enticing while including the credit sinks we all knew were coming. Adding these missing services shouldn’t be too much trouble. Better yet is for the game world to move forward in a way that gives a player owned megaship a purpose outside of being a trading post begging for attention.

It’s not the upkeep costs that bother me. It's the feeling I’m not getting enough for it.


Q: Is that the final jump FX? Seems simple/unfinished/old
 
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It depends on what the FCs will base the prices on. The Market average or the system prices. That will make placement and what you have on board the more important factors on what the tariffs would need to be set at to make money.
 
So my thoughts is that it will be huge pass for me as player. I like the coolness of it, but the upkeep thing and decommission will not make me want to buy it. There is couple of points I need to highlight.
  • Decommission is horrible idea and it needs rework!! What in ideal word would be perfect if player would click on the button and your carrier will be delivered back to lets say the place you bought it with no cost still keeping all the ships and assets in it, but you will not be able to use services. But it will never be removed from the game under the player name. Lets call it inactive mode.
  • Inactive mode must be automatic as mentioned above. If you are not playing you should never go into dept, but it should turn off the services if there is no money in the carrier. Issue is what if you have ships in it and your shipyard is offline what would happen. They will be delivered to closest station by what they already explained what can fit them. Carrier cargo storage will stay as it is enabled by default.
  • I'm ok with the whole tax system as long it is not stupid. What we saw in the video... I'm ok with 10mil per week. This is balanced price and lets say 13-14mil per week as fully fitted carrier, anything over that is huge no.
I'm ok it to be mobile station I own and not the original concept, but the tax and how the player gets punished of not playing is huge no - no.
 
Well, to sum it up, I can only say one thing.
Considering that the "new era" hasn't been announced yet (although there are about 8 months left until the release), and it's waiting for a late release, just like fleet.
Like fleet carriers, the "new era" is likely to be as empty and useless.
And it is sad, not that it is disappointing (though not without it) but definitely sad.
 
I'm wondering whether or not the player buy and sell data will be available outside of the game? ie: EDDB.

My concern is that if I were to park my Fleet Carrier outside a good mining spot and setup a buy order for whatever ore at let's say 75% of the best galactic price, How would other commanders know that?

Not having to run all the way to the sell point and potentially worry about a price change AND selling around 10K total in one spot; could be worth the overall profit split to some commanders.
 
I haven't read all the comments here but just my 2 cents.

I think FC's need Universal Cartographics. If I spend 5 billion credits, more for weekly upkeep, and then spend the time and credits (purchasing tritium) to jump it out to the middle of nowhere I think I deserve to sell my exploration data. Plus that is the only way to actually earn credits for weekly upkeep if you jump it into the middle of nowhere.That is honestly ridiculous if they do not add that feature and would be a make or break the decision for me to buy one considering I spend most of my time exploring.

The actual cost of upkeep I'm okay with. It's not really that much in the grand scheme of things and makes sense from a asset management point of view.

The cool down and warm up for jumps is too long. 15 mins each would be a lot more fair otherwise it will just take too long to move it long ranges.

They do look interesting though, definitely a lot different than I initially imagined.
 
Hi everyone, read a lot of the posts here but not all of them, so excuse me if I missed something...
BUT, unsettling idea, is 2 hours really gonna be the time between two consecutive jumps an FC Cmdr will have to wait for? Or is it 3 hours?
Because my understanding so far of the spool up and cooldown time means: 1 hour spool up --> jump --> 1 hour cooldown --> 1 hour spool up --> jump. Meaning, if you want to jump it two times in a row you'll have to wait a total of 3 hours... right? Correct me if I'm wrong please. Anyway it goes, whether it's gonna be 2 or 3 hours, this seems to be a bit on the long side for me. Half the time would be alright in my book, but that's just me.

Also, Universal Cartographics!!

o7 & stay safe.
 
On a side note, personally I don't think they even look that great, just a long ship with a bunch of landing pads.
What I did like was the look of the different support ships that were shown earlier but got canceled.

Why were they canceled?
You can now make your ship look "cooler" maybe by buying FC shipkits and paintjobs in the store for arx probably, ugh.
 
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