Personally I'd ask for Codex Discoveries to get a 1000 x buff ... 2.5 million (no new trait) means about 5 unique geological or biological sites per week equals upkeep. I wouldn't resort to add UC personally (jump-honk-scoop aint a mechanic) but have definitely got it in my head that a cartographic data back up on the fleet carrier would be awesome.
ANNOUNCEMENT Fleet Carriers - Content Reveal Recap
- Thread starter Stephen Benedetti
- Start date
Personally I'd ask for Codex Discoveries to get a 1000 x buff ... 2.5 million (no new trait) means about 5 unique geological or biological sites per week equals upkeep. I wouldn't resort to add UC personally (jump-honk-scoop aint a mechanic) but have definitely got it in my head that a cartographic data back up on the fleet carrier would be awesome.
Quite right, this is the problem when you bolt on a persistent portable space station which can be purchased by players.
Well, yes, which is why the suggestion would probably not be feasible. Leaving it to individual purchase eliminates that potential issue, while definitely leaving open the option of a player group coming together on their own to care for possibly a whole fleet of fleet carriers -- all without the risk of one person ruining it for multiple others.
I don't usually chime in on discussions about new features before having tried them however I have more time on my hands at the moment because, well, you know, so I thought I'd pop my head above the parapet...
1. Carriers for explorers
Apologies if this has been raised before, I've skimmed through the thread to this point and haven't spotted it. With one small change in approach from players I could see this being a great addition.
I was thinking about fleet carriers last night, and how I might possibly have use for one given what I'm doing currently (leisurely winding exploration trip, stopping at Colonia on the way back to unlock the engineers there). Right this second would one be of use to me tens of thousands of LY into the black? Nope.
However, had I started out on the trip with one that might be different.
Not to fly the carrier itself 500LY at a time. As a rapid transit clearly that's not going to be of much use when regular ships can get places far, far quicker. I can't imagine anyone who is simply trying to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible using one, that's what min-maxed high jump range ships are for.
However I'm not rushing to point B, I'm exploring. What I would enjoy a great deal would be to use my exploration ship as a scout I fly out from the mothership to prod around in any particular direction until I find an interesting place, then summon the carrier to my position.
Whereupon I'll have my mining ship, surface exploration ship etc to hand so I'm free to take full advantage of my new location.
As I said, that's purely from the perspective of what I'm doing now, YMMV etc and so on.
2. Universal Cartographics on carriers
Dozens of people have given their opinion on UC and I can see both sides of the argument regarding having them as a carrier contact. It would be a very convenient addition for explorers, but at the cost of removing the danger inherent in exploration. Either way is going to upset somebody.
Thinking about things logically, being unable to cash in exploration data remotely whereas Galnet instantaneously transmits information no matter where you are in the galaxy has always struck me as a little odd. Being able to hand in Codex data on carriers but not discovery data makes even less sense. I guess lore-wise it could be explained away by exploration data being huge amounts of stored info as opposed to a few lines in the Codex / Galnet feed. Or something.
I wonder whether an acceptable compromise would be to allow for explo data to be stored in the carrier, but not actually cashed in & name attached to first discoveries until one reaches a system that contains a UC contact?
That might tempt more explorers out of solo into open if they no longer risk losing weeks/months of work to Joe The Gank, while anyone who wants to remain in hardcore ironman can-lose-everything-at-any-time explorer mode can just not store data on a carrier and thus keep things exactly as they are now.
3. Immersion
Without any NPC interactions with carriers I suspect carriers are going to feel like very lonely places. I can’t see any logic in having only CMDRs dock and interact with them.
Others have already pointed out the likelihood (or lack thereof) of CMDRs buying/selling/repairing at a carrier for a premium when stations & outposts are available, so I’m not going to retread there.
NPCs are treated as equals to CMDRs in other aspects of the game (e.g. building notoriety for one) so why should they be treated any differently when it comes to carriers? It makes no logical sense for NPCs not to interact with carriers they way they do with stations etc.
The difference between a) hoping the odd player maybe stops by once in a while on the off-chance that their objectives align with yours, and b) a steady stream of NPC interactions ticking over, seems vast.
I’d go as far as to say that both for carrier owners and visitors the difference would be between the “living game” we’ve been promised, and one that felt mostly lifeless.
Right that's me done, feel free to disassemble my arguments.
1. Carriers for explorers
Apologies if this has been raised before, I've skimmed through the thread to this point and haven't spotted it. With one small change in approach from players I could see this being a great addition.
I was thinking about fleet carriers last night, and how I might possibly have use for one given what I'm doing currently (leisurely winding exploration trip, stopping at Colonia on the way back to unlock the engineers there). Right this second would one be of use to me tens of thousands of LY into the black? Nope.
However, had I started out on the trip with one that might be different.
Not to fly the carrier itself 500LY at a time. As a rapid transit clearly that's not going to be of much use when regular ships can get places far, far quicker. I can't imagine anyone who is simply trying to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible using one, that's what min-maxed high jump range ships are for.
However I'm not rushing to point B, I'm exploring. What I would enjoy a great deal would be to use my exploration ship as a scout I fly out from the mothership to prod around in any particular direction until I find an interesting place, then summon the carrier to my position.
Whereupon I'll have my mining ship, surface exploration ship etc to hand so I'm free to take full advantage of my new location.
As I said, that's purely from the perspective of what I'm doing now, YMMV etc and so on.
2. Universal Cartographics on carriers
Dozens of people have given their opinion on UC and I can see both sides of the argument regarding having them as a carrier contact. It would be a very convenient addition for explorers, but at the cost of removing the danger inherent in exploration. Either way is going to upset somebody.
Thinking about things logically, being unable to cash in exploration data remotely whereas Galnet instantaneously transmits information no matter where you are in the galaxy has always struck me as a little odd. Being able to hand in Codex data on carriers but not discovery data makes even less sense. I guess lore-wise it could be explained away by exploration data being huge amounts of stored info as opposed to a few lines in the Codex / Galnet feed. Or something.
I wonder whether an acceptable compromise would be to allow for explo data to be stored in the carrier, but not actually cashed in & name attached to first discoveries until one reaches a system that contains a UC contact?
That might tempt more explorers out of solo into open if they no longer risk losing weeks/months of work to Joe The Gank, while anyone who wants to remain in hardcore ironman can-lose-everything-at-any-time explorer mode can just not store data on a carrier and thus keep things exactly as they are now.
3. Immersion
Without any NPC interactions with carriers I suspect carriers are going to feel like very lonely places. I can’t see any logic in having only CMDRs dock and interact with them.
Others have already pointed out the likelihood (or lack thereof) of CMDRs buying/selling/repairing at a carrier for a premium when stations & outposts are available, so I’m not going to retread there.
NPCs are treated as equals to CMDRs in other aspects of the game (e.g. building notoriety for one) so why should they be treated any differently when it comes to carriers? It makes no logical sense for NPCs not to interact with carriers they way they do with stations etc.
The difference between a) hoping the odd player maybe stops by once in a while on the off-chance that their objectives align with yours, and b) a steady stream of NPC interactions ticking over, seems vast.
I’d go as far as to say that both for carrier owners and visitors the difference would be between the “living game” we’ve been promised, and one that felt mostly lifeless.
Right that's me done, feel free to disassemble my arguments.
I suspect that's not feasible without persistent NPCs : as long as they don't actually fly from point A to point B (instead of spawning out of nowhere for a one off session), there's no sense in it. The core mechanics are just too limited for that to be possible or doable in an enjoyable manner.
For myself I’m looking forward to the prospect of setting up my own commodities market. Whether or not it will be profitable will be down purely to my own experience in trading, knowing what items can hold a profit and where.
To stimulate the market I suggest PURELY for the time of the beta to suspend discounts from all galactic sources other than what we as testers impose. This will allow us to determine possible profit and losses.
For possible future capabilities I would suggest we be allowed to sell engineered modules.This would greatly assist cmdrs who cannot devote as much time into Elite as others . As for being able to sell ships, I’m dismayed that we have to pre buy ship stocks. In a real world we would have a sell or return agreements with manufacturers working off a sales commission. Dealers will no doubt do the same in a 1000 years or so . I’m also assuming that ship ownership numbers per player will not be an issue ?
Thanks to all devs for coming up with this, I’m confident that despite the number of concerns they will have a positive effect on the gameplay, which hopefully ties in with the December new content.
To stimulate the market I suggest PURELY for the time of the beta to suspend discounts from all galactic sources other than what we as testers impose. This will allow us to determine possible profit and losses.
For possible future capabilities I would suggest we be allowed to sell engineered modules.This would greatly assist cmdrs who cannot devote as much time into Elite as others . As for being able to sell ships, I’m dismayed that we have to pre buy ship stocks. In a real world we would have a sell or return agreements with manufacturers working off a sales commission. Dealers will no doubt do the same in a 1000 years or so . I’m also assuming that ship ownership numbers per player will not be an issue ?
Thanks to all devs for coming up with this, I’m confident that despite the number of concerns they will have a positive effect on the gameplay, which hopefully ties in with the December new content.
Good post. I think you can offer a premium price actually, though it is a little bit via the back door;
In the last update it became clearer that the price you get for a commodity depends on the demand for it so if you offer high demand, even if you add 15% tariff, I think it will be possible to beat local prices. So I think there should be incentive for Cmdrs to trade with carriers, even if it is a little buried.
In all carriers look like a bit of a puzzle but - as end game - imo, that is probably for the best.
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Frontier Developments have a lot of very clever and creative people working for them and they have come up with many cool features over the years... but then there's that one person somewhere in their organisation, in a side-office somewhere, who probably has a title like "Head Of Killjoy" or something similar and it's their job to take each of these cool ideas and whack on at least one caveat that makes a reasonable chunk of the player base go, "Wait... What??!!".
This is undoubtedly a huge and literally game-changing update, but thanks to the Head Of Killjoy it's potential big problem is that FCs are going to live or die on player CMDR footfall, and that's a long-term thing not easily testable with a typical FD beta test period. I'm sure there'll be a fair few FCs floating about this summer, but I wonder how many of them will still be there by the end of the year?
I'm an average player, nowhere near the level to actually own a fleet carrier, and that's fine, that's part of the design ...but apart from a few curiosity visits when they're first introduced I also don't think it's likely that I'll be interacting with any of them at all. I have my own particular play style and I don't see anything massively enticing about FCs for me as a 'regular punter' for me to include them in my play. YMMV of course.
[edit:]
The current look of FCs (to me as a non-owner) is an over-priced station that may or may not have all the facilities I want, or possibly as a long-range taxi service where the driver chooses the destination and it's slower than using one of my own ships.
This is undoubtedly a huge and literally game-changing update, but thanks to the Head Of Killjoy it's potential big problem is that FCs are going to live or die on player CMDR footfall, and that's a long-term thing not easily testable with a typical FD beta test period. I'm sure there'll be a fair few FCs floating about this summer, but I wonder how many of them will still be there by the end of the year?
I'm an average player, nowhere near the level to actually own a fleet carrier, and that's fine, that's part of the design ...but apart from a few curiosity visits when they're first introduced I also don't think it's likely that I'll be interacting with any of them at all. I have my own particular play style and I don't see anything massively enticing about FCs for me as a 'regular punter' for me to include them in my play. YMMV of course.
[edit:]
The current look of FCs (to me as a non-owner) is an over-priced station that may or may not have all the facilities I want, or possibly as a long-range taxi service where the driver chooses the destination and it's slower than using one of my own ships.
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Read the post by fdev, it answer this question
Beautiful.
The language around system authority presence is a bit confusing. It's stated that a carrier owner who abides by the rules within a system increases their carriers standing with the dominant super power resulting in less of a security presence.
Is this correct? If there is no criminal activity occurring around the carrier should i expect less of a security detail regardless of the security level of the system?
Also, what constitutes as a criminal activity that would be associated with increasing the security presence around a carrier? Does a crime need to be committed in the same instance around the carrier or will committing a crime in system while in my ship also increase security. E.g., I'm flying around my carrier in good standing with no security. I enter super cruise and engage in piracy gaining bounties on my ship. When i return to my carrier will i be greeted with a security patrol?
The language around system authority presence is a bit confusing. It's stated that a carrier owner who abides by the rules within a system increases their carriers standing with the dominant super power resulting in less of a security presence.
Is this correct? If there is no criminal activity occurring around the carrier should i expect less of a security detail regardless of the security level of the system?
Also, what constitutes as a criminal activity that would be associated with increasing the security presence around a carrier? Does a crime need to be committed in the same instance around the carrier or will committing a crime in system while in my ship also increase security. E.g., I'm flying around my carrier in good standing with no security. I enter super cruise and engage in piracy gaining bounties on my ship. When i return to my carrier will i be greeted with a security patrol?
So ok FC are not made to jump as fast as regular chips.
So I go to Colonia or Sag A in few hours. And then I have to wait for days or weeks (because I have a life and cannot play everyday), time for the FC to come where I am to enjoy the FC services ? (What services exactly for an explorer?).
So only 5% of players can buy a FC and in those 5%, how much will find an use in FC?
Nb: sorry for my english ^^'
So I go to Colonia or Sag A in few hours. And then I have to wait for days or weeks (because I have a life and cannot play everyday), time for the FC to come where I am to enjoy the FC services ? (What services exactly for an explorer?).
So only 5% of players can buy a FC and in those 5%, how much will find an use in FC?
Nb: sorry for my english ^^'
Colonia is 60 hours from the bubble, or 88 by top-speed carrier, so probably more like 50% slower once you get into the longer distances. Still pretty close for keeping things to round numbers.
On the other hand, you pay a flat fee for the trip, rather than a fraction of your ship value. And you can use more than one carrier to make the jump...
Hmm, interesting option here: get 44 carriers positioned on the Colonia-Sol route so that they can jump in relays, and start their jump sequences on a fixed schedule about five minutes apart.
- fleet docks with carrier 0
- carrier 0 jumps to carrier 1's planet
- fleet rapidly redocks to carrier 1
- carrier 1 jumps to carrier 2's planet
...etc until Colonia
Could probably get a ship to Colonia in four hours that way, which is a fair bit slower than the record for a stripped-down neutron jump route, but pretty good for a fully laden cargo or combat ship and much faster than ship transfer. Also lots of racing fun since you've only got five minutes to do each transfer, so you've got to be quick!
Announce that you'll pay twice the market rate for it at system X, get other people to mine it for you while you sleep.
The original explorers were really enthusiastic pre-1.0-release about the concept of exploration involving difficult logistics challenges, and I think it's great that Frontier have finally gone back and given them some content [1]. If the more modern "instant gratification" explorers don't have a use for it they can still stick to flying paper ships with a 70LY jump range and no support requirements and having fun that way.
[1] I hope some of them are still around to enjoy it after five years...
No. Just codex entry vouchers via one of the contacts on board. At this time, it does not appear FCs have Universal Cartographics capacity.
Reminds me of Battletech's command circuits...Colonia is 60 hours from the bubble, or 88 by top-speed carrier, so probably more like 50% slower once you get into the longer distances. Still pretty close for keeping things to round numbers.
On the other hand, you pay a flat fee for the trip, rather than a fraction of your ship value. And you can use more than one carrier to make the jump...
Hmm, interesting option here: get 44 carriers positioned on the Colonia-Sol route so that they can jump in relays, and start their jump sequences on a fixed schedule about five minutes apart.
...etc until Colonia
- fleet docks with carrier 0
- carrier 0 jumps to carrier 1's planet
- fleet rapidly redocks to carrier 1
- carrier 1 jumps to carrier 2's planet
Could probably get a ship to Colonia in four hours that way, which is a fair bit slower than the record for a stripped-down neutron jump route, but pretty good for a fully laden cargo or combat ship and much faster than ship transfer. Also lots of racing fun since you've only got five minutes to do each transfer, so you've got to be quick!
Announce that you'll pay twice the market rate for it at system X, get other people to mine it for you while you sleep.
The original explorers were really enthusiastic pre-1.0-release about the concept of exploration involving difficult logistics challenges, and I think it's great that Frontier have finally gone back and given them some content [1]. If the more modern "instant gratification" explorers don't have a use for it they can still stick to flying paper ships with a 70LY jump range and no support requirements and having fun that way.
[1] I hope some of them are still around to enjoy it after five years...
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Interesting video, I’ll visit Fleet Carriers when I come across them, things like repair and restock when long distance could be useful (Just take 1 SRV and no AMFU). But they are not for me or my play style, so I will not be buying one directly.
So whose naming theirs ‘Minecraft’
So whose naming theirs ‘Minecraft’
One question about OAs reveal video Q & A: the redemption desk according to OA handles PP vouchers. If so, thats going to be a useful thing for combat powers.
TL;DR: nope. At best, you can throw your power vouchers into the upkeep cost (why would you want to do that...?)
FDev Team!
Thank you very much for the insight and I believe many well-thought ideas and concepts went into this long-awaited update.
On reading/viewing/listening it looks awesome and I am very much intrigued running my own carrier and how real gameplay will turn out.
Great job so far!
o7
Thank you very much for the insight and I believe many well-thought ideas and concepts went into this long-awaited update.
On reading/viewing/listening it looks awesome and I am very much intrigued running my own carrier and how real gameplay will turn out.
Great job so far!
o7