ANNOUNCEMENT Fleet Carriers - Content Reveal Recap

So explorers who invented an ideal exploration ship in their heads now know its not what they thought it would be. [...] Even without UC, FCs can still be used as they are, just not how you wanted it to be used.

No, explorers thought they woud get something useful. Instead they get a one trick poney that litteraly eats diamonds for breakfast. Simple as that. And as such, fleet carrier are simply uninteresting for explorers.

From what we have been told, there is no way to make the carrier viable for exploration. Exploration takes time, and it was mentionned before, time itself isn't the issue here. I'm fine with taking several months out there in the dark. I already do. The issue is that the fleet carrier has only one use to an explorer, and that use is reaching places that were entirely unreachable before. And that one use is entirely negated by the fact you can't make money on the way and will still need to pay hundreds of millions during a single trip.

So, sure, exploration as it is today doesn't let you make money on the way either, but it doesn't cost money on the way either. Flet carriers do. And guess what is the only activity that can't make money from a carrier ? Exploring, of course. Other activities may or may not be lucky in making a buck, but they have the possibility to do so. Explorers don't. Currently, exporation is a bargain : find something good, or don't, make it back alive, or don't, get a decent paycheck at the end of a long trip, or die and rebuy. Fleet Carrier exploration isn't a bargain, it's only a drain. A very expensive way to gain new bragging rights, like "first to the topmost system of the galaxy". And I personnaly don't care about bragging rights.

Everything a fleet carrier can do for exploring, my Phantom does it better and cheaper, besides jumping to those systems that were so far out of reach of everyone, obviously. But for that, and that alone because that's the only thing a FC is bringing to the table, you need to do pretty much anything but exploring for weeks just so you can afford the expedition. I'm not talking about affording the carrier. I'm talking about foreseeing the monster upkeep that will happen from weeks in deep space with zero mean to earn anything. And that's even worse if you don't / can't play several hours on a daily basis, because the upkeep isn't even based on actual use.

So, to answer one of your previous post that I didn't quote here, there is no "fuss", at least not from me. My grasp on english may not be perfect, but it seems to me "fuss" implies a notion of interest. Seems to me one doesn't get agitated if they're not interested. There is, however, massive disapointment, quickly followed by complete disinterest.

Devs asked feedback, I'm providing feedback, and that feedback is basically, "congrats, FDev, you managed to instantly make me lose any and all interest in fleet carriers, because of how useless you made them to explorers". As I said in my original post, they bring one solution and a zillion problems, so they're not worth any interest from the exploration community, unless you want that one shiny new toy and already have a few extra billions to your name. Not a fuss, an information.

The only reason I'm posting here after seing how utterly uninteresting to me fleet carriers are is that I have a sliver of hope that, maybe, they can adjust a thing or two to make it viable. Like, for instance, allowing to sell exploration data to help fuel the upkeep, so that we can actually do things we like instead of chores to enable things we like. I'm not counting on it too much, though, but it's worth asking nonetheless :) But that's no big deal, we have a large galaxy that is mostly unexplored so far, and I have a Phantom. If the fleet carrier remains useless, then it's back to exploring the old fashion way, and see you in a year or two with something else.
 
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Well, in a way exploration is its own reward, and my screenshot collection is there to prove it :)

Still, I would appreciate if it paid for itself, at least.
I hopped you can use FC to establish settlements like that old-forgotten around bubble. For example, mine mats and build base there ...with robotos initially. So ability to move miners so much away and store ore could have some use.
Then it could be passenger missions to bring colonists to such constructed bases. And then, for example, you could receive 1% of any income base might produce servicing others.
 
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1. Having Universal Cartographs and NPCs interacting with Fleet Carriers would influence BGS;
And so does Redemption Center (or potentially would), but they worked around it and you can liquidate all the bounties/tickets/vouchers remotely
I think it proves it is possible... again: UC could work for the owner 25% lower and selling it virtually directly to PF (tariffs on top when others sell in Deep Space docked FC)
NPCs? I do not know, might be really too much to ask for
 
I generally liked your post but I think there's a misconception... I play with a big squadron, support a player BGS faction, and I PvP - all 'MMO' stuff you're talking about but, honestly, carriers as pitched aren't offering much for us either.

No BGS ties, no local faction contacts, no mission board, interstellar factors-style bond cashing? All-but useless for my squadron. Best case scenario it means shaving some time off restocks around remote CZs, but still necessitates stops at regular stations to pick up massacres and cash bonds. So RIP that plan.

As for selling stuff to other players? Nobody in the squad is dumb enough to buy vanilla ships from carriers at a marked up price when they're 3 jumps from a Yongmart.

PvP? Everyone just hangs out in Shinrarta, San Tu etc. The former is permit locked so carriers can't go there. The cost of carriers is out of the reach of most PvP players I know and brings literally nothing to the table gameplay wise because ship transfers in-bubble are already faster and cheaper based on the numbers we've seen. So RIP that plan.

I'm not disagreeing with the body of your post but I feel like often PvE vs PvP, or Open vs Solo mini-rifts open up in threads like this. Honestly, Frontier very rarely cater to any subset of players. They're off doing their own thang, man, I have no idea what that is right now. As far as I can see carriers might benefit... AX people? And... maybe the fuel rats or something. There's no reason multi players and solo players can't live in peace - I don't want you to think we're getting served while you're not; believe me... we aren't.

Yes I fully understand what you mean . I have perhaps missed my explanation there. I didn't want to open the old PVE-PVP-Solo-Open friction , as i consider myself that there is none. I am rather pleased that each mode can live together as today. What I wanted to say by the mmorpg situation is more related to the offline upkeep situation as I explain further down, with the comparison with games as Eve online. Perhaps I shouldn't have written that so early in the post. It indeed can bring some confusion. My bad there :)
 
The countdown and cooldown times should be greatly reduced. 1 hour for each is a major letdown. I don't mind there being countdowns and cooldowns, but when you can travel across the galaxy faster in a Anaconda, it seems odd, especially when you take into account the cost of Tritium. Frontier should want the goal of FC to allow players to explore quadrants never visited and to have player bubbles organically created. It opens the door for truly player systems, where they could be player created planetary bases in systems, player created stations in systems, etc. etc.
I dont mind a countdown/cooldown. But it either needs to be significant or not at all. Either make it so its hours or days between jumps or just a few minutes. I know you, and many others, are thinking "Yeah but i can just jump in a ship multiple times and be there nearly as fast". That is not suppose to be the point of a carrier, in my opinion. A carrier isnt suppose to be a ship you can go mining in, sit in a belt and bounty hunt, or jump across the galaxy rapidly, like some people are wanting it do.

FC was designed to be a starport with an FSD. That is literally what it is and functions as, a starport with an FSD. And those i think should be slow lumbering sloths that trek slowly to their destination and then spend days or weeks there.
 
Just leave that here. My excuse for the quality.

I don't understand why the modular system wasn't push more deeply. You buy what you will use/need. Simple. All players don't need the fully padded FC or the FSD with 500 ly. If you plan to stay in the human bubble. If it can lower the intial cost, then maybe more player will get involved with this update.

Have a nice weekend.
Fly save

FC-elitedangerous.png
 
My fundamental question is this: what is the "fun factor" for this update for the general game population? I ask this question without knowing precise numbers of course, so perhaps someone can fill in the gaps of my knowledge here. How much of the player base plays the game regularly enough to be able to afford 1) the initial purchase of a fleet carrier and 2) all the additional upkeep costs of maintaining a fleet carrier?

My concern is that fleet carriers seem to cater to a very exclusive group of players. If this were something that multiple players (i.e., a squadron) could pool resources in order to purchase and then assign a leader(s) who were in charge of allocating resources to the carrier's maintenance (which makes sense also with regards to the carriers being fully persistent), then the high costs/maintenance fees would seem feasible and even perhaps "fun" to me as a game mechanic. This system just seems odd and poorly planned/implemented.

I will add that I love this game. One of the most immersive experiences I have ever had. I do worry about developers, though, when they lose sight of the fact that they are building games; when they put all of these arbitrary costs and requirements into game systems that chip away at the fun factor. I always wonder what is going through their heads. Is it as Yamiks said recently in one of the Youtube followups to the Frontier Dev-stream(?): that they are interested in creating grind in order to boost player logins so that they can impress investors? I just don't see the value of adding "toil" to games. Yes, there should be a series of goals that one should have to achieve in order to receive a reward. But "toil" is another thing completely. This is why I loved the mining changes so much; I could go out and do something that was visually and audibly stimulating (deep core mining) and make a nice profit for a couple hours worth of compelling gameplay. So far, carrier access and maintenance just seems like a lot of work that I ultimately want to avoid.

This gets me back to my original question: For whom is this carrier "fun" built? What will it add to my experience? Shouldn't game "updates" have something in them for the general playerbase?

If the answer is "nothing!" then I have to echo what some have already said in this thread: Where are these developers at them moment? What are their concerns / end goals? Who are they imagining when they are in meetings deciding upon future content? At the moment, it feels a bit like I might need to look elsewhere for a group of developers who take my limited time (toiling away) as an educator/father/husband seriously and play another "game."
 
It doesn't matter what the FC can or can't do, has or doesn't have the only thing that is 100% for sure is that given FDevs record of messing up even the smallest of updates FC's are gonna crash the hell out of the game like we've never seen before.
 
FC for poor players...
You definitely understand that FC is a rented mobile SPACE STATION, right? It listed in persistent map, listed at navigation panel, even if you logged off.
Now imagine, you and 5000 other "poor players" ordered themselves a personal FC. How do you suppose to place all this stuff in the Galaxy? Or you want ones to see several dozens of FCs when they entered system and open nav. panel? What a purpose?
p.s. I personally don't like FC idea as it described by FDev, but maybe I will reconsider after the beta.
 
Now imagine, you and 5000 other "poor players" ordered themselves a personal FC. How do you suppose to place all this stuff in the Galaxy? Or you want ones to see several dozens of FCs when they entered system and open nav. panel? What a purpose?
Do you even realize how systems are in this game? Even inside the bubble i may go through 20 systems before i enter one someone else has even been in, in the last week.. Ive been in systems 100 LY from Sol with tens of millions of pop and never seen another human player for days on end. Also the people who seem to be most interested in these are people who dont want to live in high population areas where every system has 3-10 dockable NPC locations already.

Even if every single player owned 10, you couldnt litter the bubble with these things little lone the galaxy. I would have a mechanic where the carrier started a mothball process if the owner hadnt logged in for 30 days and you could transfer your items from a mothballed carrier indefinitely. The Mothball process would take 72 hours and any players docked with the carrier would be ejected to space in their current ship upon next login after the process was complete. Decommission would be something that a player had to actively do if it were up to me not " you didnt play this week so we are going to punish you and take your toys away...oh and you own us 18 million credits as well!"
 
maybe a partial UC system if FD doesnt want to go all in?

you could sell FSS data, but only store detailed mapping - keeping it safe for when you return to a full UC office
even if it didnt pay your full weekly upkeep, it would go a long way to defraying your costs, allowing for longer voyages deeper into the black
 
maybe a partial UC system if FD doesnt want to go all in?

you could sell FSS data, but only store detailed mapping - keeping it safe for when you return to a full UC office
even if it didnt pay your full weekly upkeep, it would go a long way to defraying your costs, allowing for longer voyages deeper into the black
Why everybody think you need UC there ? It is completely safe to fly on proper Anaconda. You will explode at once or will be able to repair all damage if survived. Also there is a station 3ly away from Sag A*. This means it is in center, i.e. something like 20000ly only from any given point in galaxy - come and sell data if you're too worried.
 
Why everybody think you need UC there ? It is completely safe to fly on proper Anaconda. You will explode at once or will be able to repair all damage if survived. Also there is a station 3ly away from Sag A*. This means it is in center, i.e. something like 20000ly only from any given point in galaxy - come and sell data if you're too worried.

if you take a FC out into the deeps to actually make use of the 500ly jump range, how do you pay the upkeep? currently the only answer is to save up before you leave.

what if you find some impressive canyons to fly through and have an incident with a cliff face? without any way to back up or turn in your collected data, the whole trip thus far is 0 profit just because you wanted to do something other than jump, scoop, mine, repeat...

sag a* is a lot more than 20k ly from beagle point - more like 45k. and that is quite the detour if you are limited to 500ly every 2 hours with a FC
 
Btw, I want to thank Frontier for their continued support of this game. I know they worked hard on this update and it's hard to please everyone. Lots of changes were made, clearly, throughout the implementation of this new game mechanic. I will hold out my final judgment until testing it out myself. With all this said, though, I think that while not every new addition to the game needs to--or ought to--accommodate every different play style, the way fleet carriers have been updated just screams "missed opportunity". I am fully in support of them delaying this update again to get it right.
I dont mind a countdown/cooldown. But it either needs to be significant or not at all. Either make it so its hours or days between jumps or just a few minutes. I know you, and many others, are thinking "Yeah but i can just jump in a ship multiple times and be there nearly as fast". That is not suppose to be the point of a carrier, in my opinion. A carrier isnt suppose to be a ship you can go mining in, sit in a belt and bounty hunt, or jump across the galaxy rapidly, like some people are wanting it do.

FC was designed to be a starport with an FSD. That is literally what it is and functions as, a starport with an FSD. And those i think should be slow lumbering sloths that trek slowly to their destination and then spend days or weeks there.

I don't mind this argument either. I mean, honestly, the true exploration benefit of a FC is the ability to make those 500 ly jumps, which allows much greater ability than any other ship in the game to push to the outer limits of the milky way. My biggest issue with the update is the lack of a squadron ownership of a FC (including the ability to pool money to buy one or more, and the ability to assign managers to it via ranks).
 
It is intriguing, although not surprising, that we haven't heard a single word from the development team about this fiasco. Hopefully that means that they are working on ways of making the FC a more effective and useful tool. Now, does that mean we'll see any fixes immediately (especially in light of current world events) prior to the first, or even second beta? Absolutely not. But the teams involved certainly have enough time to make adjustments.

Who knows? Maybe they are just terrible at explaining how the carriers will actually benefit players (regardless of playstyle), instead of them just being a huge credit sink and mining mini-game that isn't worth the cost or time. For that thought alone, I don't think we should completely abandon hope until the beta tests are over.

I would, however, hate to be the guy that explains to the boss why this awesome thing that they have been working on, and delayed twice, has such poor reception from the players of the company's former flagship title.
 
It is intriguing, although not surprising, that we haven't heard a single word from the development team about this fiasco. Hopefully that means that they are working on ways of making the FC a more effective and useful tool. [...]
It means they have weekend :rolleyes:
 
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