Focused Feedback - Balancing Ship Engineering & Material Gathering
- Status
Сбор материала
Доступность и необходимое время
Чтобы получить их как можно быстрее, материалы с 1-го по 3-й классы обычно обмениваются с 4-го и 5-го классов. Следует ли увеличить их доступность и скорость, с которой они собираются, чтобы их можно было собирать сами по себе? Создайте планету с материалами ,зашифруйте её обозначте сектор и пусть игроки найдут её, чем не легенда? От исчезнувшего Пилота.Точно так же материалы 5-го уровня можно обменять на 3 материала 4-го уровня в той же категории. Однако для сбора материалов 4 и 5 классов требуется примерно одинаковое количество времени. Следует ли увеличивать количество материалов, собираемых за один экземпляр, чтобы учесть это?
Я не смогу написать на английском. Поэтому пишу на русском, в надежде что вы сможете прочитать русский текст.
1. Полностью поддерживаю любые альтернативные способы получения улучшенных модулей и материалов для улучшений. Разнообразие всегда хорошо.
2. Награда за миссии должна соответствовать сложности миссии. Например сейчас 5 отборных фокусировочных кристалов дают за уничтожение 40 пиратов, или за 2000 тонн груза или за сканирование журнала гигантского корабля.
3. Космическая и пешеходная части практически ни как не связаны. Я уже давно почти не высаживаюсь на станциях и планетах, потому что скафандры улучшены, а для кораблей там ни чего интересного не дают.
4. Не правильный баланс между космическими кораблями, скафандрами и ручным оружием. Не может скафандр стоить дороже космического корабля. Необходимо либо уменьшить стоимость скафанров и ручного оружия, либо увеличить стоимость космических кораблей.
1. Полностью поддерживаю любые альтернативные способы получения улучшенных модулей и материалов для улучшений. Разнообразие всегда хорошо.
2. Награда за миссии должна соответствовать сложности миссии. Например сейчас 5 отборных фокусировочных кристалов дают за уничтожение 40 пиратов, или за 2000 тонн груза или за сканирование журнала гигантского корабля.
3. Космическая и пешеходная части практически ни как не связаны. Я уже давно почти не высаживаюсь на станциях и планетах, потому что скафандры улучшены, а для кораблей там ни чего интересного не дают.
4. Не правильный баланс между космическими кораблями, скафандрами и ручным оружием. Не может скафандр стоить дороже космического корабля. Необходимо либо уменьшить стоимость скафанров и ручного оружия, либо увеличить стоимость космических кораблей.
Ok after trying to think of something meaningful for the manufactured and raw categories, I think data really is the realm of missions. It doesn't make logical sense to add some contrived manner of "faking" items which are pure data by their declared nature. If there is a need for balancing, I would look at the frequency and reward structure of relevant missions. I agree with those who are saying we should avoid or phase out gameplay loops which only lead to the relogging routine.
Hope this makes 3x sense. At any rate, cheers to the developers/CM going out on a limb asking for feedback. Not all outfits I know like to be that interactive.
o7
Hope this makes 3x sense. At any rate, cheers to the developers/CM going out on a limb asking for feedback. Not all outfits I know like to be that interactive.
o7
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My thoughts on Odyssey and Horizon, maybe someone has already written it, I gave a quick reading without seeing it, eventually we had the same idea 
Horizon Engineers
The most annoying thing is when you have 98% engineering and it doesn't go beyond or goes like 98.3 .... 98.5 ... etc So one thing to do would be that when you reach + 96%, the next click automatically brings it to 100%.
The materials required are several, make them to find more in the High Grade or decreasing the requirements for a moment helps, the problem with the integration of Odyssey's mechanics are the RAWs that become decidedly more difficult to find (previously there were systems that allowed you to fill the ship in a few hours, now not anymore and this is a problem), so I think we need to recalibrate the RAW request or make sure that they are definitely more RAW in the asteroids when mined (personally I like this option more) .
Odyssey Engineers
The biggest difference between the Horizon materials are:
=> The fact that they are totally randon
In Horizon I can go to a High Grade and I know I will find Grade 5 materials, in Odyssey I go to CMD / IND complex and maybe, with the lunar eclipse, I could find what I need.
=> The fact that they are not all tradable
=> The fact that there are many useless materials
=> Limited and shared inventory with materials
So if Horizon is the party of the grind, in Odyssey it is the nightmare that led him to shipwreck because people broke their chains of investing time and having nothing in their hands.
My solution would be on several fronts:
Since there are many useless materials combined with the fact of limited inventory, I would assume that each "Asset" and "Data" had a capacity of 100, while for the "Goods" I would do a more dynamic thing: bring the limit to 2000. which are much more in demand, but the dynamic part is that the player can choose the limit for each individual "Goods".
So I'm in the mood for farming Hush and similar, I'll increase the capacity of those goods and reducing the capacity of others, while if I am focused only on engineering materials, I'll put the materials that don't interest me to 0 so as not to take them and increase the space for the ones I am interested in to store more. It would become a new mechanic with little effort ^^
This would solve one aspect, but not the supply which really takes many hours.
So first the Random thing has to be solved, if I'm in a CMD building I have to find a bunch of stuff about weapons / training / schemes of various kinds, not that maybe I'll find 1 and the rest is garbage, it must become like entering a High Grade, where if I go to a Boom system inside a CMD building I am SURE to always find a lot of stuff of a certain type!
Horizon and Odyssey Mission materials.
This is a big change: Currently the factions offer you materials of a certain type, if instead of having them supply a specific material, they provide the grade of a material with the quantity and at the end of the mission the player chooses the material of that grade he wants ? It would be a major change, where I can finally focus on the materials I need doing pretty much any kind of mission. This would help a lot with grinding.
For example current mission:
"Kill Seshenghus Jet Mafia Faction Pirates", reward: "Financial" "Biotech contuctors 4 units [Rarity 5]" "Influence"
With the new system:
"Kill Seshenghus Jet Mafia Faction Pirates", reward: "Financial" "Rarity 5 Material: 4 units" "Influence"
What do you think?
Horizon Engineers
The most annoying thing is when you have 98% engineering and it doesn't go beyond or goes like 98.3 .... 98.5 ... etc So one thing to do would be that when you reach + 96%, the next click automatically brings it to 100%.
The materials required are several, make them to find more in the High Grade or decreasing the requirements for a moment helps, the problem with the integration of Odyssey's mechanics are the RAWs that become decidedly more difficult to find (previously there were systems that allowed you to fill the ship in a few hours, now not anymore and this is a problem), so I think we need to recalibrate the RAW request or make sure that they are definitely more RAW in the asteroids when mined (personally I like this option more) .
Odyssey Engineers
The biggest difference between the Horizon materials are:
=> The fact that they are totally randon
In Horizon I can go to a High Grade and I know I will find Grade 5 materials, in Odyssey I go to CMD / IND complex and maybe, with the lunar eclipse, I could find what I need.
=> The fact that they are not all tradable
=> The fact that there are many useless materials
=> Limited and shared inventory with materials
So if Horizon is the party of the grind, in Odyssey it is the nightmare that led him to shipwreck because people broke their chains of investing time and having nothing in their hands.
My solution would be on several fronts:
Since there are many useless materials combined with the fact of limited inventory, I would assume that each "Asset" and "Data" had a capacity of 100, while for the "Goods" I would do a more dynamic thing: bring the limit to 2000. which are much more in demand, but the dynamic part is that the player can choose the limit for each individual "Goods".
So I'm in the mood for farming Hush and similar, I'll increase the capacity of those goods and reducing the capacity of others, while if I am focused only on engineering materials, I'll put the materials that don't interest me to 0 so as not to take them and increase the space for the ones I am interested in to store more. It would become a new mechanic with little effort ^^
This would solve one aspect, but not the supply which really takes many hours.
So first the Random thing has to be solved, if I'm in a CMD building I have to find a bunch of stuff about weapons / training / schemes of various kinds, not that maybe I'll find 1 and the rest is garbage, it must become like entering a High Grade, where if I go to a Boom system inside a CMD building I am SURE to always find a lot of stuff of a certain type!
Horizon and Odyssey Mission materials.
This is a big change: Currently the factions offer you materials of a certain type, if instead of having them supply a specific material, they provide the grade of a material with the quantity and at the end of the mission the player chooses the material of that grade he wants ? It would be a major change, where I can finally focus on the materials I need doing pretty much any kind of mission. This would help a lot with grinding.
For example current mission:
"Kill Seshenghus Jet Mafia Faction Pirates", reward: "Financial" "Biotech contuctors 4 units [Rarity 5]" "Influence"
With the new system:
"Kill Seshenghus Jet Mafia Faction Pirates", reward: "Financial" "Rarity 5 Material: 4 units" "Influence"
What do you think?
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Last year's Epic Store had Elite for free, and I've activated that copy to build an alt up.
It took 64 hours in total to bring that alt up to the point it had a nearly finished G5 engineered Courier just the way I like it. Includes materials and unlocking engineers.
Not perfect speedrunning of the whole ordeal, but it's done with all the knowledge in mind how to do it effectively and efficiently.
It needs a few more rolls but that's for like a fraction of a percent of performance added. Most key engineers unlocked for that, and that includes Palin's G5 Thrusters.
A forumdad with one hour to spend every sunday will take a year and three months to get there.
And a typical gamer that's willing to commit one hour a day every week to Elite in getting this done would need ten weeks to get there.
One could say that's representative of the "barrier to entry" for PvP at least, and likely AX gameplay as well.
You won't do those two careers in a Courier, sure, but still - it won't differ that much for a Chieftain.
The Gathering amount is not really the issue in my opinion, it is the amount we need and the ways to get them.
- Gathering Manufactured requires killing a lot of Ships or finding the right USS, but Combat can take longer than the Material exists. Each Ship can drop a number of different things, which is in some cases even dependent on the System or Type of Ship. Thats why we go to Davs Hope where we just have to drive in a Circle.
- Gathering Raw ore requires patience because the Rocks are so far apart on a Planet, and it is pretty much random what they contain, thats why we go to the Forests where we can Farm exactly what we need. It would be nice if the Forests would be fixed in Odyssey, havnt checked them in a while, but last time i did they were far more spread out and the G4 stuff was gone.
- Gathering Data is just painful overall, thats why we visit Jamesons Cobra and scan the Beacons there.
Some of my Friends dont even want to try Engineering because of that.
Special Missions would be great and would make things much easier. But why not go further and offer "vouchers" for a free Upgrade for especially dangerous Missions?
Buying them could work too and would include them into the "Gameplay Loop".
Would be a neat QOL Change. I always go with the highest amount on Inara anyway, so making it fixed would be great.
Personally i think that "Player Markets" are still too underused. Some Carriers sell Thargoid Hearts or Services already, which is great, but it could do much more.
Player Markets where you can buy Materials (both Horizons and Odyssey) or Sell them could be a funny way to promote Player interaction.
What about Pre-Engineered Modules? We Unlock them through some CGs now and i like that a lot. Maybe it could be nice if the "Pinned Blueprints" could do more? Pin a Blueprint, pay a Price or complete a Mission, and now you can buy that Module with the pinned Roll on the Market for Credits.
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I like many Idea's in this Thread but for me the most important is:
Let us buy them. Period!
Elite Dangerous is in dire need of a credit Sink.
Credits, like any existing currency, should be used to buy everything. Illegal stuff can't be bought that easily sure, but in the end it WILL be paid with the used currency.
Make it expensive, 10 Million for one Grad 5 or 20 Million for one, I don't care, just let us use our credits! Let the user decide which way he wants to use to get to the goal! You want to mine your way to engineering? Fine. Do 50 hours Robigo tours? Okay! Farm HGE'S the normal way? Why not? Use your exploration data to engineer your next Exploration Ship! Do it fam!
There is no need to force the players in something they don't want. Use the existing currency, use the opportunity to get the credits usefull again, just do it!
Let us buy them. Period!
Elite Dangerous is in dire need of a credit Sink.
Credits, like any existing currency, should be used to buy everything. Illegal stuff can't be bought that easily sure, but in the end it WILL be paid with the used currency.
Make it expensive, 10 Million for one Grad 5 or 20 Million for one, I don't care, just let us use our credits! Let the user decide which way he wants to use to get to the goal! You want to mine your way to engineering? Fine. Do 50 hours Robigo tours? Okay! Farm HGE'S the normal way? Why not? Use your exploration data to engineer your next Exploration Ship! Do it fam!
There is no need to force the players in something they don't want. Use the existing currency, use the opportunity to get the credits usefull again, just do it!
Something I haven't heard anyone else mention is how much time it is going to take to balance Engineering.
Frontier, if you are serious about this it is going to take a team of 10 people dedicated to it for the next 3+ years.
Balancing engineering, if it is possible, will be a massive undertaking. It is going to take monthly or quarterly patches for years. It will take multiple passes on each type of gear with a short time between iterations on specific gear pieces to let bugs and the meta shake out. It won't be a "one and done" thing.
Whether or not it was realized at the time, Engineering commited the team to years of balance work. And that work was postponed for years, making it even harder to do.
Oh and because it wasn't balanced for nearly 5 years now get ready for some knock down, drag out full on Forum Riots. You're going to have to nerf, whether directly or comparatively, things people spent thousands of hours grinding for with no indication it would ever be changed.
Frontier, if you are serious about this it is going to take a team of 10 people dedicated to it for the next 3+ years.
Balancing engineering, if it is possible, will be a massive undertaking. It is going to take monthly or quarterly patches for years. It will take multiple passes on each type of gear with a short time between iterations on specific gear pieces to let bugs and the meta shake out. It won't be a "one and done" thing.
Whether or not it was realized at the time, Engineering commited the team to years of balance work. And that work was postponed for years, making it even harder to do.
Oh and because it wasn't balanced for nearly 5 years now get ready for some knock down, drag out full on Forum Riots. You're going to have to nerf, whether directly or comparatively, things people spent thousands of hours grinding for with no indication it would ever be changed.
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Hi Bruce! I love all of the ideas presented in the OP.
One of the materials that comes to mind that is hard to get (based on BGS) is Pharmaceutical Isolators, needed for Dirty Drives. That always seemed like an odd item to need for modifying thrusters anyway, but they're more scarce these days. And another is Datamined Wake Exceptions (for increased range FSD). For anyone who doesn't go out of their way to scan lots of wakes, these are painful to get. The old trick used to be to go to a famine system, find a Distribution Centre, and scan wakes there, with a constant flow of new ships coming through. These are much harder to find now.
Material Trading is what has smoothed over the scarcity issue. But I always felt that the 6:1 ratio for trading up, combined with the 3:1 ratio for trading down, is a brutal "tax" rate. That is, if you trade up and then realize you didn't want to do that, and then trade back down, you'll have half of what you started with. I get that there needs to be a trade tax to keep people from doing it constantly in both directions, and to encourage people to do more collecting. I think the main reason people haven't complained that much about this is the fact that they're mostly trading down to save time anyway. I'd consider making the trade-up ratio 4:1 (costing only 4 to gain one at the next tier). As it currently stands, trading grade-1 mats to try to get a single grade-5 will require 1296 of that grade-1 to get that single grade-5. That doesn't realistically reflect the difference in time or difficulty in gathering them. At 4:1, it'll cost 256 grade-1 materials to get a singled grade-5. Trading down at a 3:1 ratio would still give you 81 grade-1 materials from a single grade-5. That's still a significant difference, but not as brutal as it currently stands.
I love the ideas of trading for materials with non-purchasable items, and having material-rewarding missions from the engineers themselves. Both are stellar ideas.
In terms of collection rates, right now we get 3 items for each pickup, regardless of grade level. I'm not as bothered by this because of the varying scarcity of the pickups, but I could see changing this alongside the trade-ratios to something like:
grade-1: 7
grade-2: 6
grade-3: 5
grade-4: 4
grade-5: 3
Or adjust those numbers up or down a little. Just spitballing an idea here.
On the engineering progress per "roll", I'm not too bothered by the randomness usually, but it can occasionally be frustrating. For instance, the number of grade-5 rolls needed to hit the maximum varies the most noticeably. I've seen it take as few as 5 on several occasions, but also as many as 11. The latter is more than double the number of rolls compared to the former. That leads me to suggest either making it fixed amounts, or narrow the randomness range to be more consistent. For instance, requiring maybe 6-8 rolls instead of 5 to 11 typically.
One of the materials that comes to mind that is hard to get (based on BGS) is Pharmaceutical Isolators, needed for Dirty Drives. That always seemed like an odd item to need for modifying thrusters anyway, but they're more scarce these days. And another is Datamined Wake Exceptions (for increased range FSD). For anyone who doesn't go out of their way to scan lots of wakes, these are painful to get. The old trick used to be to go to a famine system, find a Distribution Centre, and scan wakes there, with a constant flow of new ships coming through. These are much harder to find now.
Material Trading is what has smoothed over the scarcity issue. But I always felt that the 6:1 ratio for trading up, combined with the 3:1 ratio for trading down, is a brutal "tax" rate. That is, if you trade up and then realize you didn't want to do that, and then trade back down, you'll have half of what you started with. I get that there needs to be a trade tax to keep people from doing it constantly in both directions, and to encourage people to do more collecting. I think the main reason people haven't complained that much about this is the fact that they're mostly trading down to save time anyway. I'd consider making the trade-up ratio 4:1 (costing only 4 to gain one at the next tier). As it currently stands, trading grade-1 mats to try to get a single grade-5 will require 1296 of that grade-1 to get that single grade-5. That doesn't realistically reflect the difference in time or difficulty in gathering them. At 4:1, it'll cost 256 grade-1 materials to get a singled grade-5. Trading down at a 3:1 ratio would still give you 81 grade-1 materials from a single grade-5. That's still a significant difference, but not as brutal as it currently stands.
I love the ideas of trading for materials with non-purchasable items, and having material-rewarding missions from the engineers themselves. Both are stellar ideas.
In terms of collection rates, right now we get 3 items for each pickup, regardless of grade level. I'm not as bothered by this because of the varying scarcity of the pickups, but I could see changing this alongside the trade-ratios to something like:
grade-1: 7
grade-2: 6
grade-3: 5
grade-4: 4
grade-5: 3
Or adjust those numbers up or down a little. Just spitballing an idea here.
On the engineering progress per "roll", I'm not too bothered by the randomness usually, but it can occasionally be frustrating. For instance, the number of grade-5 rolls needed to hit the maximum varies the most noticeably. I've seen it take as few as 5 on several occasions, but also as many as 11. The latter is more than double the number of rolls compared to the former. That leads me to suggest either making it fixed amounts, or narrow the randomness range to be more consistent. For instance, requiring maybe 6-8 rolls instead of 5 to 11 typically.
Just give us raw materials to list of mission rewards.
Also, I'm sceptical about any form of buying materials for credits, or trade between players, why?
It is quite simple, people think, that it would let them buy materials for credits earned during doing what they like, not during other things.
But it isn't truth. Currently credits are meaningless, and people still farm they like crazy, use any possible exploir, bug, or just new meta gold rush.
If you will introduce trade between players, I think, that it will look like "gather materials, OR farm billions by currently the best activity, because by normal gameplay you couldn't earn enough money even for nickel".
Train "make credits usefull again" passed away long ago, when they started buff everthing, instead nerf things, which were too good.
Also, I'm simpl again possibility to achieve everything by spamming example only, and rly only mining, sorry guys
Also, I'm sceptical about any form of buying materials for credits, or trade between players, why?
It is quite simple, people think, that it would let them buy materials for credits earned during doing what they like, not during other things.
But it isn't truth. Currently credits are meaningless, and people still farm they like crazy, use any possible exploir, bug, or just new meta gold rush.
If you will introduce trade between players, I think, that it will look like "gather materials, OR farm billions by currently the best activity, because by normal gameplay you couldn't earn enough money even for nickel".
Train "make credits usefull again" passed away long ago, when they started buff everthing, instead nerf things, which were too good.
Also, I'm simpl again possibility to achieve everything by spamming example only, and rly only mining, sorry guys
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How about a Fleet Carrier graveyard POI (for decommissioned carriers) as a source of manufacturing materials?
You could have destructible panels on the carrier that you could shoot and release mats. It could make for a fun game play loop, instead of just deploying collector limpets, where you haven to search for the panels and shoot them.
You could use this to move decommissioned carriers out of populated systems.
You could have destructible panels on the carrier that you could shoot and release mats. It could make for a fun game play loop, instead of just deploying collector limpets, where you haven to search for the panels and shoot them.
You could use this to move decommissioned carriers out of populated systems.
Let me give you a little bit of gaming history.
Way back in 2006, I purchased Phantasy Star: Universe. I played it quite a bit, and had a lot of fun. But there was one aspect of that game that I truly loathed, with the fury of one thousand super novas.
It was the weapon upgrade system: Roll for upgrade, if you win, weapon improves; if you loose, weapon looses an upgrade rank; and if you are really unlucky, the weapon breaks and is lost forever.
Fifteen years later, this kind of upgrade system has become very common among those Asian Ultra-Grindy F2P MMOs. Its almost an ear mark. It exists to enforce as much grind as possible: oh hai, you raided at max level and got a legendary quailty gear - now go upgrade it and pray it doesn't break during that process, or you'll have to raid all over again to get that gear back!
Bruce G... Is Elite Dangerous supposed to be like those ultra-grindy MMOs? You fellas have already done us players a solid by getting rid of the "negative" engineering rolls for the more dependable iterative improvements that is the currently live system.
However, I feel like the "roll slots or spin the wheel to upgrade" system really is a relic of older days when game devs desperately tried anything at all to add more "content". These days, this upgrade mechanic appears as a painfully obvious grab to make the player spend more time in the game. I find it actually disrespectful of my time.
When I was out of work between 2017 and 2019, I played Elite Dangerous for long hours almost every day. I eventually built up enough of a stable of engineering materials and modules that I no longer need to desperately farm for more, just to do what I want in game. These days, when I get a flash of insight on a new ship build idea, I go and build it - I already have 90% of the parts ready to go.
Now comes Odyssey. I'm looking at that Engineering material gathering grind for ground gear. I'm also looking at my work schedule. Then I look back at how much time I spent in 2018: 70% of my time was gathering materials to do what i want with the other 30% of my game time. That's approximately 1400 hours spend grinding for mats, out of the 2000-ish I had on record before I got hired for work again.
If I plot out how many game hours I will have to put in around my normal work hours, then I'm looking at four to five years real time. That's not a goal, that's an idle day dream that's never going to come true.
Do every Elite CMDR a huge favor. Respect their time. Get rid of the RNG on mat gathering (space and ground) and the spin the wheel mechanics on engineering. Put some logic behind the placement of materials, so CMDR's can plot out what they need, and know that going to location type X or Y will have those materials, even if the quantity is small some times so multiple stops are necessary.
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I'm very glad to see the company opening up for this kind of discussion.
I was very upset with the state of engineering in Odyssey, replicating all the bad aspects of previous ship engineering (and even expanding on that with the implementation of permanent modifications). Honestly, it prevents me from even dipping my toe in on-foot engineering.
After the launch of Odyssey, I had stopped playing the game, but this gives me hope. It would be nice to have a bit more openness about planned content, also. Even if it means exposing doubts about the process.
About engineering:
I think it's overly complex with the amount of diverse materials needed. Very hard to keep track of it all without 3d party apps.
I honestly think it fails at the supposed goal of making people spend more time at the game: I have my main ship fully upgraded. I wanted to build other ships to try them out, but there's no way I'll enter the engineering black hole, as it is, once again.
Rolling for Engineering improvements is very annoying, in my opinion. It seems like a casino, for no reason. I think they should just ask for the price for a full upgrade (4 to 5, for example) and be done with it.
The idea of being able to purchase materials with different currencies, from different play styles, is very nice (what about the space trucker style?). However, I feel like the engineers should ask for fewer materials, and should have a credit cost added to balance things out. It doesn't feel natural to have credits excluded from engineering. I understand that it opens the doors for a new economic pool to be filled, but these pools (credits, mats) should not be kept apart in the engineering process. Even in the interaction with the concept of engineers, it feels very gamey.
I also love the idea of engineer missions. Would be nice to have more gameplay involved aside from just collecting mats.
Again: Very nice to see the company opening up for discussion. The Odyssey launch left a very sour taste and there's a lot to be fixed in the game, sure, but you have a very passionate community who's very capable of understanding mistakes and helping to fix them.
I was very upset with the state of engineering in Odyssey, replicating all the bad aspects of previous ship engineering (and even expanding on that with the implementation of permanent modifications). Honestly, it prevents me from even dipping my toe in on-foot engineering.
After the launch of Odyssey, I had stopped playing the game, but this gives me hope. It would be nice to have a bit more openness about planned content, also. Even if it means exposing doubts about the process.
About engineering:
I think it's overly complex with the amount of diverse materials needed. Very hard to keep track of it all without 3d party apps.
I honestly think it fails at the supposed goal of making people spend more time at the game: I have my main ship fully upgraded. I wanted to build other ships to try them out, but there's no way I'll enter the engineering black hole, as it is, once again.
Rolling for Engineering improvements is very annoying, in my opinion. It seems like a casino, for no reason. I think they should just ask for the price for a full upgrade (4 to 5, for example) and be done with it.
The idea of being able to purchase materials with different currencies, from different play styles, is very nice (what about the space trucker style?). However, I feel like the engineers should ask for fewer materials, and should have a credit cost added to balance things out. It doesn't feel natural to have credits excluded from engineering. I understand that it opens the doors for a new economic pool to be filled, but these pools (credits, mats) should not be kept apart in the engineering process. Even in the interaction with the concept of engineers, it feels very gamey.
I also love the idea of engineer missions. Would be nice to have more gameplay involved aside from just collecting mats.
Again: Very nice to see the company opening up for discussion. The Odyssey launch left a very sour taste and there's a lot to be fixed in the game, sure, but you have a very passionate community who's very capable of understanding mistakes and helping to fix them.
[PS4, Horizons]
Encoded mats and Jameson's Cobra;
I refuse to do that (again) and I like driving round the surface bases in my SRVs, but it's still far harder to do that than getting raws from geological sites, (I know there's an issue with that in Odyssey, so whilst I don't have an issue ATM I'm worried what will happen after the merge) I don't mind trading mats.
The surface sites should yield more encoded mats than they do (drop rate) .
Encoded mats and Jameson's Cobra;
I refuse to do that (again) and I like driving round the surface bases in my SRVs, but it's still far harder to do that than getting raws from geological sites, (I know there's an issue with that in Odyssey, so whilst I don't have an issue ATM I'm worried what will happen after the merge) I don't mind trading mats.
The surface sites should yield more encoded mats than they do (drop rate) .
Having engineers give out missions would be a real pain having to fly all the way back and forth
Regular missions need to give out more variety in materials. I mainly see only a few specific materials offered as mission rewards.
Buying materials via bartering is better than nothing but I’d want to be able to spend credits.
Being able to exchange bounty vouchers for materials is a nice idea, it’d allow a better collection of materials if you instead don’t have a collection limpet or can’t find a specific material.
Regular missions need to give out more variety in materials. I mainly see only a few specific materials offered as mission rewards.
Buying materials via bartering is better than nothing but I’d want to be able to spend credits.
Being able to exchange bounty vouchers for materials is a nice idea, it’d allow a better collection of materials if you instead don’t have a collection limpet or can’t find a specific material.
And...
Auto black list for materials, when we have max amount!
Yes, pretty please. Both by increasing drop rate and amount received as mission rewards.
Yes, very much so.
As I'm pretty new to egineering (or rather the game itself), I don't have an extensive overview of the materials affected by this mechanic. This sounds like a very intransparent and gatekeeping mechanic though, so please remove the ties between engineering mats and BGS states.
When trying for the first time: Way too long.
When done as a side-effect from other activities: Barely noticeable.
Notable exception: Some engineering materials can't really by obtained "by the wayside" when exploring / mining / trading or those means are very inefficient. So please further increase incentives to combine activities with material collection. Ease of picking materials up comes to mind (multi-purpose limpet controller for ships comes to mind, automatic collection upon contact via SRV / on foot).
Very much in favor! It'd be a great way to combine rep and mat grinding without needing one grind (mats) to feed the other (rep). It's great if you're prepared and only sink mats into the engineers you really want to pursue for G5 mods, but in the end missions from engineers would be a gread addition!
Also very much in favor. Instead of trading mats engineers could simply accept a certain kind of these currencies as payment for an upgrade attempt.
Which currency an engineer accepts can be tied to the initial unlocking requirements or universal. The first would certainly be more immersive.
The spreadsheet enthusiast in me screams "Yes!".
Also, engineers ought to be professionals that can provide a reliable quality in their work.
As the economy in Elite is rather capitalistic in nature, it would make totally sense that... you know... material traders for the neccessary materials settled right with the engineers. It'd be a win-win-win situation (economically speaking).
Another aspect for improvement would be to have more use cases for crafting materials (but only if several of the improvements to their availability are implemented). Possible options that would probably fit in well with the current Synthesis system would be temporary buffs like:
- Using Encoded materials to temporarily increase gimballing / turret accuracy
- Using Manufactured materials to temporarily increase refinery output
- Using Raw materials to temporarily increase ship speed (think fuel injection)
As others have said, an efficient way to trade materials with other players (well, not only materials) would be nice.
An additional Fleet Carrier service for material trading. Maybe restrict to one instance per carrier so only one category can be traded. Don't know about the balancing implications of this one, to be honest...
Thanks for reaching out and listening!
O7
My biggest complaint is having to take and SRV and go down to a planet’s surface to try and find specific materials. If I could find these materials from mission rewards and/or ship kills, engineering would be a lot less painful because I wouldn’t be forced to stop doing my favorite activities.
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