Focused Feedback - PC Participants

Purchase during the blowout was straightforward despite the rush probably because I had pre-positioned myself in the vendor system beforehand, my carrier appeared in an adjacent system and when I joined it I was fortunately able to equip it this was down to luck which it wouldn't be in live because in live our database of visited systems is available for the galaxy map tools to use unlike in beta. I suggest some work around for future betas.
 
build a power plant, pay for it, hire workers, and then go personally mine the uranium and transport it to the plant by your car.
Be my guest
Your first gripe was about having to mine and transport the Tritium, both actions only Commanders can take in the Elite: Dangerous Universe. So now you've tried to redirect the gripe by offering up a screwball analogy. Tritium mining is not terrestrial (duh) so the "car" complaint is just bogus bushwah. A Sidewinder or a Dolphin or even a FDL might be considered car-like (a huge stretch, though, lol), but you wouldn't haul big cargo in those anyway. Plus, if your crew had the skill and ships to go out and mine for you -- they would be Commanders also! But you are blithely ignoring an option that fits your planet-based analogy quite well -- hire another Commander to obtain and transport it for you if you feel it's too risky to do it yourself. Just like having a trucking company deliver the uranium you mention. Just don't expect it to be free of cost.
 
'Plus, if your crew had the skill and ships to go out and mine for you (...)
Just like having a trucking company deliver the uranium you mention. Just don't expect it to be free of cost.'
And here we come to the point, I want to be able to at least order fuel for my ship. and and even pay for the EXTERNAL delivery COMPANY.
It has to be the NPC, finding Cmdr that can do it at the moment I need - will not always work. Even even for sb. in a big squadron
Since I'm paying crew, let's have one of them or fiew more NPCs to minning tritium role.

The FC should be a tool to use, not a slowdown brick that I have to take care for a few hours per week, just for fiew jumps.

I really have a lot more interesting stuff to do, than 9 hours of minning.
Which in this state I'm not going to do - I prefer normal ship jumps + transport of the ships which I intend to use - without FC
 
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And here we come to the point, I want to be able to at least order fuel for my ship. and and even pay for the EXTERNAL delivery COMPANY.
It has to be the NPC, finding Cmdr that can do it at the moment I need - will not always work. Even even for sb. in a big squadron
Since I'm paying crew, let's have one of them or fiew more NPCs to minning tritium role.

The FC should be a tool to use, not a slowdown brick that I have to take care for a few hours per week, just for fiew jumps.

I really have a lot more interesting stuff to do, than 9 hours of minning.
Which in this state I'm not going to do - I prefer normal ship jumps + transport of the ships which I intend to use - without FC
Well, you should be quite pleased that you need not purchase one. Problem solved, gripes rendered even more meaningless.
 
Here is my feedback (mostly on parts which need a change, because that's what I notice first)

I bought my FC on sale at the system Agartha. The FC spawned in nearby system (13.5 LY) ICZ HR-V B2-1, maybe Agarta was overcrowded with other FC.

First, I think there is a lack of clarity :
  • I wanted to buy additional services, but I could not because there was no carrier admin service in the system where my FC had spawned (because Agarta was full ?). I guessed I needed to jump back to Agarta. If every system with a carrier service is full, how will I be able to buy new services ? And when is a system considered "full" ? max number of carriers per system / star / planet / ... ?
  • When I went to the FC Galaxy map, and tried to choose Agarta as a destination, the FC icon became red and the destination was not set. I just got a '15 sec cooldown before jump', but didn't see a meaningful enough indication of why i could not jump there. I went to the Agarta System map and clicked like a monkey on every planet until I finally managed to set a destination.
  • After I jumped an eternity 15 minutes later, my carrier was not visible on the system map. When I logged off/on it became visible.
  • When are the upkeep costs billed ? What if I disable all services 5 minutes before billing ? What if I disable all services 5 days per week ?
  • When I suppress a service, it would be nice to see how much Cr it will be sold for (like with module ships in standard stations)

The look'n feel of some new screens looks out of place. I thought my display had dropped from 1440p to 720p "hd-ready"
  • The carrier admin os screen looks like a cheap smartphone app made by a flat tiles maniac. Instead of only showing the title of the menu item under the mouse, why don't you show them all ? It just causes unnecessary mouse hovering and countless clicks on the sidebar.
  • Same goes for the bounty screen
  • The new bounty, universal cartographics, maintenance, tritium screens are 100% opaque; the usual blurred transparent screens (like the outfit / shipyard / market remote engineer screens) look way more neat and don't break immersion in the game.
  • The new menu when you land at a station looks a bit cheap like an alpha version too, but at least there is one line of text showing the purpose of the currently selected icon.
  • The maintenance screen and its giant tiles is the worst. Tabs are counter-productive here (the only place that need tabs or some kind of filter right now is the stored modules page, in order to sort through the 120 modules, but it's another story), nobody wants to click through 8 different subscreens to check/repair modules. Please just show a single page with all the modules and their healths as usual; keep the ship picture and let go of the rest. Fortunately, someone was smart enough to add a "repair/refill all" functionnality in the station/FC entry menu to save our sanity.
  • In the FC admin OS, since there is a scroll bar, the mouse wheel should scroll, not zoom the FC view (if you really want to zoom, at least make it faster, it takes ages as it is)

Costs and targetted players :
  • The tritium price (in hours of mining and in cash), given the current consumption (1t / LY ?), looks way too high for a FC owned by a single player. A passive refill once a week would be welcome, and it would make sure no FC can get stuck in a far system without tritium in range of their mining ships.
  • When I see the high jumping costs and upkeep costs, and the mess in systems fulls of FCs, I can't help but think that Fleet Carriers were intended to be owned only by organized and significantly large player groups/squadrons/factions; if that is really the intention, then Frontier should state it honestly and explicitly in game that you will need a group of 10+ players to sustain a FC and 50+ to make use of it. Maybe we would get less ranting about it. I just wanted an easy and cheap way to haul my ships and stored modules in interesting places and park it as a beacon in the dark, but FC are something else.

Random positive stuff : when I'm docked, the FC has some own sounds; I can fire my staff for no reason and immediately get a new face in one click ; loitering on my FC isn't a crime; I can ram docked NPCs to death for a 100 Cr and the cops show up but don't do anything
 
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View attachment 174033I have tried to log this three times on tracker.... each time got taken to an expired ported issue relating to the same thing, or form submit has lost my issue or an error message...

I give up with tracker.

so I will put here instead...



you cannot use the transfer all to ship while docked a the carrier. it never appears to be usable.
I've used the "transfer all" button both ways and it worked. The only time it didn't work is when my cargo space was getting close to max. At a little over 24,000 tons, I had to load each additional ton separately. That became a pain in the .
I noticed in your pic that you are nowhere near max, that would suck big time having to load your cargo into the FC.
Did you try login out and back in?
 
My feeling about the FC update

Tried the FCs as a visitor in BETA 1. Now I own one in BETA 2 (prior to beta blowout - I had the 5 billions in bank).

I'll get one when it drops in june but I must admit that, sadly, I'm a little bit underwhelmed by the final result after such a long time in development. It doesn't bring any new exciting and fun gameplay and some features seems useless in the actual state of the game (commodities market for example). The best way to define the FC update is : a new tool that brings long awaited QoL (if you have 5 billions to spare).

It's a succession of screens and the crew doesn't feel like a crew even if you can change their ugly faces.

NOTE : The whole goldrush to get a FC higlighted a big problem about incomes : PLEASE work on balancing incomes from the different professions in game. It's totally broken (mining mining mining).

Loadout

I appreciate the fact that in BETA 2 the default loadout allow the owner to store his own ships & modules.

I'm a lonewolf so if I get a carrier it'll mainly be to be more efficient to move my fleet around and do some exploration trips with a few specialized ships (canyon racing, mining and, of course, my exploration ship). I'll take repair, refuel and universal cartographic : I don't need anything else.

I think that shipyard & outfitting should both be splitted in two (Shipyard 1 allow other players to store ships on your FC & Shipyard 2 allow to sell ships to other players).

Still don't see any real use of commodity market...except for exploits...

Jumping the Fleet Carrier to new locations

Preparation and cooldown times in BETA 2 are fine for me and the sounds effects when jumping are just amazing as usual - good job !

Navigation through the galaxy & system map was working well (accidentally cancelled my jump a few time when messing around in galaxy & system map - would be nice to have a message asking "Are you sure you want to cancel your FC jump to this destination?" message). Did a few jumps without any problems : I would love to be able to plot numerous jumps ahead though.

Crew members

I tried a lot of FC crew members without encountering any problems (except the portrait not updating if I change my deck officer and receive a message from him) and I can confirm that they are all ugly.

Tritium

We should be able to easily transfer Tritium from FC's cargo to fuel reservoir...seriously. Would also have been nice (and a good reason to add a new gameplay mechanic) to be able to get Tritium without having to mine (atleast we can buy it but damn...once again mining mining mining...). A lost opportunity for new gameplay here.

Tritium quantity required / jump is way better now.

Tritium price in market is too high IMO. Should be around 70% of its actual value.

New service price & upkeep

They are ok. I'm not a harcore gamer and it won't be game breaking for me to keep my FC running. Would appreciate some work on income balance though ;)
 
I keep seeing people say this, and I understand the desire.
Thing is, in order to "let us see" the animation, they would have to create the animation first.
People seem to be saying this as though Frontier have this animation playing in the background, and just don't make it visible for no real reason. They don't, they didn't make a hyperspace animation for Fleet Carriers, or you can be sure they would be showing it.

It's not a minor thing, it'd take a load of design and development to make it how they would want it to look.
Well, not actually 100% correct, the cool animation for the carrier opening the wormhole, effects and ship entering and exiting is already done, if you are not on the carrier you can watch it all. All they need to do is to allow the external Carrier Overview view persist up until the moment we are actually fully in the wormhole (if they aren't able to provide tho Dr Who wormhole traversal scene). So most of the work is there, and it already looks cool AF... for other ships watching the departure... which is hugely disappointing.
 
NOTE : The whole goldrush to get a FC higlighted a big problem about incomes : PLEASE work on balancing incomes from the different professions in game. It's totally broken (mining mining mining).
Very much this!

Looking at traders, explorers, AXI's, BH and smugglers: If you are waiting for a FC coming your way, you better wait for a live game blowout. Earning money those ways is just too low for it to get anywhere near the 5b. Passenger missions to some extent, but even those are capped at 50m.
 
  • When I went to the FC Galaxy map, and tried to choose Agarta as a destination, the FC icon became red and the destination was not set. I just got a '15 sec cooldown before jump', but didn't see a meaningful enough indication of why i could not jump there. I went to the Agarta System map and clicked like a monkey on every planet until I finally managed to set a destination.
Yeah there's a thing there, the galaxy database limits the maximum number of stellar objects you can have in a system, but the system database will have its own limits. For instance if you have a single star the planets in primary orbit use letters of the alphabet, so there is probably a hard limit of 26 primary orbital objects since it ends at Z, be they stars, planets or Fleet Carriers. Each planet will also be limited to 26, because while for a single star system you can have body A 1, the first planet plus a moon, in a two star system the same body would be 1 a, with the star being A, so we can probably assume each planet and each moon of a planet can only have 26 objects in orbit. So if you have a single star with no planets the maximum number of FC's that can enter that system may be only 26, with a star with one planet there would be 51 FC's etc.

So yes indeed in a crowded system it's quite likely the primary orbit will be filled well before all the available FC slots are filled, making it unavailable to jump directly to from the galaxy map because that would put you into a primary orbit, but using the system map it could still be possible to find an available secondary orbit slot still available.
 
Yeah there's a thing there, the galaxy database limits the maximum number of stellar objects you can have in a system, but the system database will have its own limits. For instance if you have a single star the planets in primary orbit use letters of the alphabet, so there is probably a hard limit of 26 primary orbital objects since it ends at Z, be they stars, planets or Fleet Carriers. Each planet will also be limited to 26, because while for a single star system you can have body A 1, the first planet plus a moon, in a two star system the same body would be 1 a, with the star being A, so we can probably assume each planet and each moon of a planet can only have 26 objects in orbit. So if you have a single star with no planets the maximum number of FC's that can enter that system may be only 26, with a star with one planet there would be 51 FC's etc.

So yes indeed in a crowded system it's quite likely the primary orbit will be filled well before all the available FC slots are filled, making it unavailable to jump directly to from the galaxy map because that would put you into a primary orbit, but using the system map it could still be possible to find an available secondary orbit slot still available.
In EDD, my fleet carrier showed as a "planet", in the upper right display panel.

Stellar Forge has a lot of technical debt. It wasn't future-proofed.
 
Feedback on Beta 2:

new jumping spinup and cooldown timers.. 15/5 is much better than 60/60 Although I would have expected it to be 5/15.
no outside view of the carrier while jumping is a big letdown....
you expect players to actually pay 5 bln credits to be staring at a wall everytime they jump? think about this.
as other players id like to have a bridge view of my carrier.... accessible while jumping or even while just being docked at the carrier.. just for fun.


navigation and rout plotting for carrier - well, im still asking myself why you can only plot ONE jump at a time.
i could not imagine anything more cumbersome for someone who wanted to get his carrier to a remote place outside of the bubble.

updated standard services: now that i can at least park my own ships on my carrier - thats much better
ship transfers: as soon as i started the transfer of ANY ship to my carrier - i got an email saying that it already had arrived.... thats an error.

try out different crewmembers: whats there to try out? it doesnt change anything except change the picture and name to another set of rngesus... and to be hones.. im sick of clicking a button hone hundred times. just because i feel that my crew had to have a certain look and feel to them...

If i way a real employer i would look at ALL the applicants for a job at once and then immediately choose the one i want to have on my ship....
the way you implemented crew selection just costs me lot of time.. so therefore i wont use it at all

BY THE WAY: you messed up the looks of ALL NPC fighter pilots in the beta.. I hope you better fix that until june as well.
so what use is clicking a button hundrets of times just to get the exact look of any npc you wish if theres always the danger that your next patch messes with the optics of all existing npcs?

so you click through and choose half a dozen crewmembers.. none of them is a robot (as I can tell by the pictures - although some of them are ugly as frak)
but still: when youre approaching your carrier - youre always greeted with a robot voice... why isnt the ATC a human being?

carrier services... redemption office.
crashed the 100% reliably any time i tried to redeem some vouchers.
at least you finally fixed that

>Carrier Upkeep
  • >> What are you thoughts on the changes to the upkeep costs?
They are still in existance!

You say they are neccessary to prevent "cluttering" of systems by abandoned carriers.... I say: no credit upkeep costs are NOT preventing this.
As hundreds of other players in thif forum have already pointed out - its no problem for players to put billions of credits intto the carrier bank and abandon the game for years... and have the abandoned carrier "cluttering" its parking position for years.

Therefore my opinion since beta 1 has not changed. I find passive credit upkeep cost unacceptable as a solution for your "cluttering problem"
I would not have a problem with a carrier being auto-mothballed after the player has not logged in for X amount of time. But I think your passive credit upkeep system "stinks".

i still can not imagine how you plan to have real money sales of livery options for carriers if players are penalized with upkeep for having them.

Despite the fact that many say ... "its only ~10 Million credits per week you can make this amount of playing one hour as a X..." I find this unacceptable right from the start.
I dont want being told to 'waste' one hour of my gametime for ingame actions that a DEVELOPER of a game has sanctioned on me.
When I have the time to spend 1 hour ingame. I expect to spend the time as I see fit.

Remember your marketing slogan?
"Blaze your own trail."

I dont need a second life, or a second job (a badly paid one I might add), nor a space tamagochi.
I expect a game to entertain me when I have the time to play it.. and I expect everything to be saved in the database without any artifical hamsterwheel addons, when Im offline.

If its not entertaining - theres plenty of games on the market that stand in queue to do exactly that...
If its hamsterwheel - then its "goodbye and thanks for all the fish"

Im fairly sure about one thing.. you introduce carriers WITH upkeep into the live servers - then I certainly wont buy one. I'm not into self punishment.
Obviously, my real money expenses for carrier livery options will be zero as well. (and I think you would be planning to sell cosmetics, paintjobs and maybe even ATC voices - well sorry - as long as passive credit upkeep exists - no deal)

Too bad you wasted 2.5 years of developing time into a SINGLE feature that barely adds anything useful to the game (and if, then only for a fraction of players) .... turning this one single feature into a spacetamagochi hamsterwheel that doesnt even interest me but even has the potential to actively drive me away from this game.
 
I moved my carrier to Rodentia. It got lonely in my mining paradise.

I think I'll just leave it there. I've had my chance to evaluate carriers, and I'm going back to the main game.
 
I just finished taking my carrier from the bubble to Colonia with a few sightseeing stops on the way. I want to give some feedback about Tritium.
  • Loading Tritium on to your carrier is a very tedious work. I could at best get it to 7+ minutes per run with a Type 9 and the carrier next to a moon with a station selling Tritium, giving me around 5-6000 tons per hour. 3-4 hours for filling up the carrier with Tritium is pretty boring.
  • How do I find stations selling Tritium in the Galaxy map? I click on the button to buy trade data but I can't find a way to see which stations/system actually has Tritium if I haven't been there before. Maybe it's possible in the galaxy map but it's too hard to figure out and obviously not in the very limited pilots handbook. In Colonia I have only found one seller with only 3000 available and that system is getting close to filled up for "parking". Is Frontier yet again sending me to external web sites to find something that really should be in game? I want to be able to play in VR!!
  • Tritium pricing seems acceptable but it will still lead to more money grinding since it will cost up towards one billion Cr to fill up a carrier.
  • Many others have already mentioned the very convoluted way of refilling the Tritium depot from the storage. I hope Frontier's excuse for this is to keep commanders close to their carrier and don't just abandon them as stationary objects in the game, but surely some more exciting game mechanic could have been conceived?
  • If I should decide to mine for Tritium, as a huge mining lover. (No I'm maybe average.) I've come across very, very, very few systems that has Tritium hotspots. On my way to Colonia in the carrier, I scanned a majority of the systems, lets say 30-40. I did not find a single Tritium hotspot even though I found 5+ ice-ringed bodies. So before the last jump I took an extra exploration tour to try and find at least one Tritium hotspot. It took another 15-20 systems before I found one(!) hotspot. It's possible that all other commodities were more common in hotspots than Tritium, but I didn't collect data. It's too much of a needle in a haystack search for my taste.
  • Mining Tritium in a (single) Tritium hotspot gave me 72 tons in about 65 minutes spent in system and then jump back and forth from the carrier. On average lets call it 1 ton per minute since my ship could have had a more efficient configuration. So 3 hours of game play for ONE jump. Or 333 hours for 20.000 units of Tritium. I'd rather decomission and go to Borann (or whatever money meta that replaces it) for 4-6 hours to grind money for a new carrier and full tank of fuel in the bubble and then take the carrier to where I want to go. Even including the many hours of jumping the carrier, it would still be faster! Why would I want to save my carrier out in the black when it is probably faster to start with a new one in the bubble than mining Tritium.

All in all, the Tritium handling is a big time sink/stink very much getting in the way of the "new and exciting gameplay" unnecessarily. Unless you expect all that new gameplay to take place in the bubble. I feel that the explorers and others doing their thing far outside the bubble are again let down by the game designers. Exploration is it's own "grind" that has no upper end to the number of hours. To have to grind the hardest of all carrier owners feels unreasonable.

As a reminder, for normal ships fuel is either bought with a single click at a station or scooped from a star, hopefully while just passing it near the exclusion zone. We don't spend many hours gathering it, moving it around or grinding money for it. I feel that the fleet carriers focus on the wrong thing with the Tritium mechanics.
 
There are going to be plenty of nice carrier owners in June. There's already a group organizing where to set them up. So, I can go a loooong way, fix my ship, sell my data, and be happy.

And, not have to mine my eyes out again. :)
 
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