General / Off-Topic French pressident Macron unveils the mockup of the future European fighter!

The UK also needs to develop an independent GPS system since we have been denied access to the co developed and funded one the EU has.
That's a bit of a red herring. Britain is getting thrown out of ongoing development, but they aren't in a worse spot with Galileo than they are currently with GPS. That combined with how easily and commonly those systems are jammed makes their "security" use questionable, and there have been some promising results with dead reckoning techniques that may replicate or even beat satellite navigation in some cases. It's hardly making a case to DIY yet another space system at least.
 

Goose4291

Banned
Today, at the international Paris Air Show that took place at Le Bourget, French President Emmanuel Macron, accompanied by foreign ministers of Spain and Germany, revealed the mock-up of what is destined to become the main European 6th generation jet fighter.

This fighter will be the result of a consortium between France, Germany and Spain. Who will join forces to deliver the jet fighter of the future.

Let me tell you, its a beauty! :)


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsAIroM0BQk
At the risk of turning this political, it's projects like this which is one of the big reasons that the French and Germans are pushing for an EU military so they can strong arm member nations into buying the standardised kit that entails.

They're still smarting from Belgium choosing the F-35 over the Eurofighter/Rafales.
 

Goose4291

Banned
Besides the UK, its the only nuclear power with significant power projection, but it suffers because its over used (example, the carrier Charles De Gaulle is worn out).
Agreed. I've sailed with the French Navy a few times, and their ships are generally visibly very tired.

I'd also say after doing a few RAS's with them, they also suffer a bit in the quality of their crews when compared to other nations I've worked with.
 
From what Ive seen in recent history of human conflict and human history is trying to keep a 'straight face' when someone issues a 'threat'. Your like Are you being 'serious'
There is no longer any 'honor'

Right know you are more at risk at being 'knifed' than any large scale conflict.

When we get to Mars its over any way. The AI Robots win.
 
Any way im more interested about Elton John honor . Any insights on that. There was a lot of kissing and hugging going on at the Ceremony. Hes suddenly loves the French
Is he still waiting for Nikita?
 
France realises that if the UK does go and is cut off, it alone will shoulder the brunt of defense duties. Besides the UK, its the only nuclear power with significant power projection, but it suffers because its over used (example, the carrier Charles De Gaulle is worn out). Plus, the UK is part of the Five Eyes, and has the best cyber intelligence in the world outside of the US.

The difficulty is in NATO and if the US backs away. This leaves the EU in a tight spot and it will need to either spend more alone or keep the UK in the loop.
I agree that the Charles de Gaulle is pretty old, that is why France will start building a new carrier in the new Future!

https://www.capital.fr/economie-politique/on-en-sait-plus-sur-le-futur-porte-avions-francais-qui-remplacera-le-charles-de-gaulle-1341583 ( sorry, its in French!)

What this article says, in short.

The new carrier will be nuclear powered, it must be capable of carrying the new SCAF fighter, it will be BIGGER than the Charles de Gaulle!
 

Goose4291

Banned
I agree that the Charles de Gaulle is pretty old, that is why France will start building a new carrier in the new Future!

https://www.capital.fr/economie-politique/on-en-sait-plus-sur-le-futur-porte-avions-francais-qui-remplacera-le-charles-de-gaulle-1341583 ( sorry, its in French!)

What this article says, in short.

The new carrier will be nuclear powered, it must be capable of carrying the new SCAF fighter, it will be BIGGER than the Charles de Gaulle!
The problem they have is that they have only just started deliberations now. Naval architecture and shipbuilding by proxy is a long process if you're not using a tried and tested design. CDG will need to march on for at least another twenty years IMO.

For example: The QE took 12 years to get to the state she's in now, and she's a relatively simplistic conventional powered carrier.
 
Agreed. I've sailed with the French Navy a few times, and their ships are generally visibly very tired.

I'd also say after doing a few RAS's with them, they also suffer a bit in the quality of their crews when compared to other nations I've worked with.
I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree.

The French navy is among the most efficient and modern navy's of the world. Its fleet counts among the top of what current technology allows! The Charles de Gaulle is currently the oldest ship of the French Navy!

Lets compare a current US destroyer with a current French one!

This is the USS "Arleigh Burkle" Constructed back in 1988.

This is the French Destroyer "La Fayette"

Comissioned in 1996, the French Navy has 5 ships like this.

And as for the crew, I really don't know what you are talking about.

The one thing the US has over everyone else, is numbers. There is no contest.

But their whole navy starts to look pretty old.
 
The problem they have is that they have only just started deliberations now. Naval architecture and shipbuilding by proxy is a long process if you're not using a tried and tested design. CDG will need to march on for at least another twenty years IMO.

For example: The QE took 12 years to get to the state she's in now, and she's a relatively simplistic conventional powered carrier.
NOPE, as the article I posted states, the construction of the carrier was decided on last october.

BUT it should be released no sooner than in 2040, at the same time as the SCAF fighter. :)
 

Goose4291

Banned
NOPE, as the article I posted states, the construction of the carrier was decided on last october.

BUT it should be released no sooner than in 2040, at the same time as the SCAF fighter. :)
That's my point.

CDG is the only French carrier.

They only just approved building her replacement last year, so we won't see her in the water like you say for a long time. And CDG is... what nearly 35 years old now.

If you seriously think a CVN is going to be able to keep running for at least another twenty years when she's the only platform that can perform a role, then we've got issues. I've sailed on conventional ships with a similar operational tempo (and nuke boats in my RN days as part of CASD) and let me tell you, that ain't going to happen.
 

Goose4291

Banned
And as for the crew, I really don't know what you are talking about.

The one thing the US has over everyone else, is numbers. There is no contest.
What I'm saying is that when we get instruction to do a RAS with a foreign ship, if we see it's a French ship, as deckhands trying to get the evolution done from the supply ships side, the department is less looking forward to it, than we would if it was a RN, USN, Japanese or Dutch ship.

The Americans are weird though, as whereas everyone else will use any method of mechanical aid (Capstan, winches, etc) you'll find with the USN it's all muscle bosuns hanging off of a line hauling in by hand at the first opportunity.
 
That's my point.

CDG is the only French carrier.

They only just approved building her replacement last year, so we won't see her in the water like you say for a long time. And CDG is... what nearly 35 years old now.

If you seriously think a CVN is going to be able to keep running for at least another twenty years when she's the only platform that can perform a role, then we've got issues. I've sailed on conventional ships with a similar operational tempo (and nuke boats in my RN days as part of CASD) and let me tell you, that ain't going to happen.
Could be worse, you could have the Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov to keep going...
 

Goose4291

Banned
I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree.

The French navy is among the most efficient and modern navy's of the world. Its fleet counts among the top of what current technology allows! The Charles de Gaulle is currently the oldest ship of the French Navy!

Lets compare a current US destroyer with a current French one!

This is the USS "Arleigh Burkle" Constructed back in 1988.

This is the French Destroyer "La Fayette"

Comissioned in 1996, the French Navy has 5 ships like this.

The one thing the US has over everyone else, is numbers. There is no contest.
Let me try to make this clearer, this is what I'm saying, using the examples you just gave:


The USN has a LOT of ships, so can cycle them through deployments and refit periods.

The French do not, and it shows, because they're constantly deploying the same ships over and over, which is why as I say, last time I saw a La Fayette (escorting as part of a task group) she looked like a tub twice her age and prone to defects, while a US Tico that was with us looked brand spankers and was always able to do her taskings.
 

Goose4291

Banned
You could always buy the second mothballed carrier Prince Charles from the UK, hardly used and very modern.
Prisoner of Wales isn't getting mothballed, the Tories knocked that moment of Labour madness on the head about five years ago.

I've got a mate on there atm getting her ready for sea trials :).
 
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