Oppenheimer
Banned
I want the exclusive wireframe cobra skin for 2 euros
back in the shop for some more limited periods of time
back in the shop for some more limited periods of time
Frontier: Can you please define your understanding of "Limited"
- Thread starter Titus Balls
- Start date
But things go on sale all the time after you've bought them at a higher price. Why should FD be different? In all honesty I don't think it's so much of a sale to boost revenue near term as it is part of a larger pricing experiment. They've been playing around with prices for a while now... Packs of skins, individual skins at different prices, limited skins, discounted skins.... They're trying to find the revenue maximizing paint price before the masses jump in on the 16th. In their shoes I'd be tempted to do the same. Black Friday is simply an excuse for another pricing experiment, which is fine with me. They just have to be careful that they don't fall into the trap that Steam and retailers around the world fall into repeatedly: conditioning their customers to expect sales/discounts, which materially drives down willingness to pay over time, thus reducing revenue and profit potential.
It's been posted before. Again, though, the store text:
"Available for a limited time only - OFFER ENDS September 14th"
(italics mine)
Newsletter #40, Sep 12:
"Also, availability of the limited edition flag paint jobs will end this Monday so if you want to grab one before then, go to the store and add them to your basket."
agree
but then i think quite a few people are noticing now that FD are quite prepared to alter or go back on things theyve previously said.
It's just a rather needless and perplexing thing to do... that's what gets me. If FD want to sell more paint, they can just make more paint job patterns to sell. Job done.
If FD want to sell occasional higher-price paint jobs - "limited edition" stuff, it's absolutely critical that people know those items won't pop up ten weeks later for half the cost. Because... dun dun DUNNNNNN... fewer people will buy those special items when they come out if there's a chance they can pick 'em up a bit later in the bargain bin.
For me, with my one Viper flag paint purchase, it's five bucks. I just spent that on a coffee on the way in to the office. I'm not getting the angle grinder out and prepping pitchforks for all the villagers.
But I have PM'd Edward Lewis, as I feel the need for some community liaisonage today.
If FD want to sell occasional higher-price paint jobs - "limited edition" stuff, it's absolutely critical that people know those items won't pop up ten weeks later for half the cost. Because... dun dun DUNNNNNN... fewer people will buy those special items when they come out if there's a chance they can pick 'em up a bit later in the bargain bin.
For me, with my one Viper flag paint purchase, it's five bucks. I just spent that on a coffee on the way in to the office. I'm not getting the angle grinder out and prepping pitchforks for all the villagers.
But I have PM'd Edward Lewis, as I feel the need for some community liaisonage today.
Agree. I bought one of the flags as I'm a sucker for limited edition stuff. I never even got to use it as I haven't gotten to the ship yet to which it applies (I mostly muck about to test things, haven't really 'played' much yet).
But if it's cheaper now...that's a bit disappointing. I know stuff goes on sale...but limited edition stuff should never be on sale. Don't call it limited edition then.
Is that even legal? I have no idea.
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I'm not contacting Trading Standards, lol. I am contacting Edward, though. He's got someone's mess to clean up, I reckon.
9 pages eh?
Everybody who's bought a skin so far must have done it with a desire to donate money to FD for making such an amazing game. The skins themselves are vanity items you barely ever see and I doubt anybody considers them good value for money at any price. So why is everybody getting all upset if FD change their skin shop in a way that will probably generate more money for them - we want them to be successful, right? It made sense for the skins to be pricey when only the dedicated, reasonably affluent backers were playing but now that it will open up to a broader range of players the lower prices will appeal to many more people.
In true FD style, they've also given something to us backers - a bunch of FREE skins. That's great for those of us that didn't purchase any skins, great for those that did as they now have even more to choose from, and great for the game to brighten it up with some more designs.
Everybody who's bought a skin so far must have done it with a desire to donate money to FD for making such an amazing game. The skins themselves are vanity items you barely ever see and I doubt anybody considers them good value for money at any price. So why is everybody getting all upset if FD change their skin shop in a way that will probably generate more money for them - we want them to be successful, right? It made sense for the skins to be pricey when only the dedicated, reasonably affluent backers were playing but now that it will open up to a broader range of players the lower prices will appeal to many more people.
In true FD style, they've also given something to us backers - a bunch of FREE skins. That's great for those of us that didn't purchase any skins, great for those that did as they now have even more to choose from, and great for the game to brighten it up with some more designs.
It's just a rather needless and perplexing thing to do... that's what gets me. If FD want to sell more paint, they can just make more paint job patterns to sell. Job done.
If FD want to sell occasional higher-price paint jobs - "limited edition" stuff, it's absolutely critical that people know those items won't pop up ten weeks later for half the cost. Because... dun dun DUNNNNNN... fewer people will buy those special items when they come out if there's a chance they can pick 'em up a bit later in the bargain bin.
For me, with my one Viper flag paint purchase, it's five bucks. I just spent that on a coffee on the way in to the office. I'm not getting the angle grinder out and prepping pitchforks for all the villagers.
I totally agree with this. Up till now, every decision FD made was - although sometimes regretable - understandable or at least defendable at best, this one doesn't make any sense. If you sell something (regardless what) exclusive and dump it again on the shelves a month later for half the price, its bonkers. Even the old dates are still in. Simply looks like a todler found a keyboard and started playing with it. If you can create a game like this, then why do that..?
Do I hear the lifetime expansion pass? Heck, I can imagine they resurrect the kickstarter process again. Station or planet anyone? I'm sure they are all very hard decisions to make, but they have to be made...
Perfectly legal, I'm afraid. "On sale for a Limited Time. Offer Ends XYZ" does not imply that there won't be further offers for an additional limited time. Now, if their store page said "Buy the paint jobs, these will never, ever, be in the store again" - then that's another thing entirely. But having limited time offers is all over the world, in every shop you go in to, and they repeat ad-infinitum.
I've been prepared to defend Frontier up till now and yes you could say I bought one flag skin to "donate" money. I bought it under the proviso that it was limited edition, because frankly I wouldn't have bought it otherwise - none of them really appealed to me.
It's not the money - the £1.50 difference is nothing to me.
What is important is Frontier's word - because to bring you back to the point of "donating" - well the have clearly shown with this move they are nothing but a purely commercial venture - something I was under no illusion of, but I did think they would at least have standards an stick to their word.
As of now Frontier's word means very little to me.
Currently I've decided to cancel the ED meetup in Edinburgh I was arranging - it's not worth my time anymore to be a free ambassador to the game.
Also I signed up for the new affiliate program - I'm not sure I'll put it on my YouTube now even if I do get accepted after this even if it makes me money.
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When it comes to weasel-wording, very little would surprise me from FD these days. Nothing can diminish the amazing technical achievements of this project. But when it comes to communication and interpretation they've proven themselves to be no different to any other commercial organisation and I have about as much faith in their integrity as I do in any other company that wants more of my money.
The fact that the flag skins were pasted back into the store with the September cut-off date still there in the description speaks volumes. Why would that text and layout have even been retained ready for a cut-and-paste job if the skins weren't destined to make a reappearance?
To be honest, I can probably trace the beginnings of my loss of faith right back to when the DDF/DDA had the word "decision" dropped into the memory hole and retconned with the word "discussion". It was a subtle distinction, but in retrospect it was first step on an increasingly slippery slope. "What we said isn't what you thought we said."
I do think they'll be pushing their luck if they put the wireframe Cobra skin back in the store, though. Not only is there a plethora of posts in the forums specifically linking this skin to the 30th Anniversary celebrations, there are these quotes from the newsletters:
Granted even those could be weasel-worded but the combination of specific dates, "only" for "10 days", "withdrawn [...] when we release" are about as close to clear cut as these things get. If the skin comes back, unless it's in a form significantly different from the original version, then not a single word that spews forth from FD's marketing machine will ever be trusted again.
Part of me almost wants them to do it, just to see Cobrageddon erupt in the forums.
The fact that the flag skins were pasted back into the store with the September cut-off date still there in the description speaks volumes. Why would that text and layout have even been retained ready for a cut-and-paste job if the skins weren't destined to make a reappearance?
To be honest, I can probably trace the beginnings of my loss of faith right back to when the DDF/DDA had the word "decision" dropped into the memory hole and retconned with the word "discussion". It was a subtle distinction, but in retrospect it was first step on an increasingly slippery slope. "What we said isn't what you thought we said."
I do think they'll be pushing their luck if they put the wireframe Cobra skin back in the store, though. Not only is there a plethora of posts in the forums specifically linking this skin to the 30th Anniversary celebrations, there are these quotes from the newsletters:
Newsletter #41 said:
Newsletter #42 said:
Granted even those could be weasel-worded but the combination of specific dates, "only" for "10 days", "withdrawn [...] when we release" are about as close to clear cut as these things get. If the skin comes back, unless it's in a form significantly different from the original version, then not a single word that spews forth from FD's marketing machine will ever be trusted again.
Part of me almost wants them to do it, just to see Cobrageddon erupt in the forums.
In fact, some goods have always been like that. Try to sue you local supermarket for selling asparagus only for a limited time period every year. Or Mon Cheri, which is generally not sold in summer.
You sound like a classic Neo-Liberal. 'Just let companies do what they like, hell it's their business.'
Fortunately there are regulations in place to PROTECT consumers from false marketing and advertising.
Limited means limited. There is either a time limit or limit on stock. This is finite, the product is not available after that time or there is no more stock. Like Limited Editions they ARE interpreted by consumers to mean this is a one off opportunity to purchase and own the item. This enables the company to increase the cost of the product as it is considered an item of scarcity. The value is in this scarcity which is devalued if the product is subsequently sold again, especially if it's sold for less. So there is a direct tangible loss. This is plain misleading and unfair on consumers, shame on you Frontier I'm really surprised at you misleading your customers. There are consumer laws in place to protect us from lying companies fortunately.
Monk your talking out of your proverbial, this kind of chicanery will damage the company more than any minor loss from not re-selling previously limited lines.
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Well based on the latest newsletter and news of the affiliate programme you won't have to be a "free" ambassador anymore.
See my edit after - I actually added that I might not bother with that either even after signing up unless Frontier can show a change in tactics.