Frontier: Can you please define your understanding of "Limited"

[jabokai]

Were the flag skins for the Viper the first time, I cannot remember? What I do know is they're not the same as was on offer before because I quite liked the Polish one as it looked like a white ship with it's front end dipped in blood... this one is different as it's one side red and the other white.

Edit: Yeah, was the viper, but they've edited some skins... nothing to see here!

 

[xxThe_Dice_manxx]

This is either a simple mistake or FD have royally messed up again, If it's a mistake then they need to remove them from the shop and reimburse who ever recently bought them, if it's not then the people who originally bought them need reimbursed.

 

[SlickReed]

I had no idea about the American stars and stripes paint job. I have to get my hands on that.

 

[lbm]

Can't say I'm interested in the flag skins myself and neither have I bought any, but I have to agree that selling "limited" stuff all over again really is a bit strange.

On a side note I'm starting to feel that all I do on the forum these days is criticizing things.

 

[Roybe]

Sophistry.

Not sure what I said that could be construed as fallacious. Nor do I appreciate being called a liar. Please expand on your point. Understand that I have worked in brick and mortar retail since the 1970's in the US, have a Business Degree, and do have a decent understanding of how these things work.

Although I understand the reasoning behind the ire of this discussion, and at a certain level actually do sympathize with folks, my points are EXACTLY why there is nothing legally wrong with what Frontier is doing AND I am trying to help people learn a little about reading online advertisements with proper skepticism to prevent this type of discomfort in their lives going forward. Reading comprehension and understanding how advertising works helps people critically decide to spend their money. Because a consumer 'thought an ad said something' does not mean it says that thing.

 

[adoredtv]

You are misreading, adding your meaning, to an advertisement. A 'limited time offer' does <=> 'one time offer'. The assumption of 'limited time' to 'limited quantities/increased collectability through scarcity' is a consumer misunderstanding of the marketing offer. Caveat Emptor. Understand the nature of the sale and offer. Some consider this shady practice. I consider this marketing an item. They never promised, explicitly or implicitly, exclusivity of a good to those that 'buy right now'. If they did, then the statement should say, 'available as a limited, one time offer'. Assuming that 'a limited time offer' is the same is the consumers misunderstanding.

http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=cbbe7b15e6

Also, availability of the limited edition flag paint jobs will end this Monday so if you want to grab one before then, go to the store and add them to your basket.

Also, don't get US and UK unfair trading regulations mixed up, we know what it's like over there and we don't tolerate it here.

 

[tucker]

Really? My local shop has special offers on my favourite drink (Jim Beam Red Stag) every so often. For a Limited Time the price is reduced, then goes back up to full price then might come down again. That is exactly what you are talking about, for that limited time it is available at a reduced price while stocks last and is perfectly legal to be offered in this way.

I have to find these sorts of threads amusing, have some people go so little to do with their time that they have to over analyze every comma, word and paragraph in the newsletter? For smegs sake if the whole thing around the skins is confusing enough for someone to ask about the definition of the word limited then just don't buy it.

Yes, for a limited time we are selling the UK flag skin at £3, now it's at £1.50.... Bit back to front, don't you think!

 

[Javert]

"Available for a limited time only - offer ends September 14th"

I would prefer it if Frontier, a company that I hold in high regard, does not use this language to advertise products if they intend to put them back on sale later. It may not be illegal, but it's misleading.

 

[Jorlin]

People that aquired these paintjobs when tey were available for the first time (and at a quite high price) might have bought them because it was quite obvious from the advertising, that they never again get a chance to get them.

Let's say you're a (nerd) collector. Someone announces this "handmade sword of He Man" limited Edition (only 1000 made).
Now the next year the producer tells: "well let's sell another two thousand of them...but half the price".

It's not like a "limited offer" at McD for a seasonal meal...

 

[Barns]

Yes a bit miffed I picked up the UK flag mostly because it was (or certainly read as) something I'd miss out forever on otherwise, now to find it's back and cheaper. I don't suppose anything actually illegal has happened but it's certainly misleading in the language.

No more skin purchases for me.

Please FD stop making such rookie PR mistakes.

 

[Roybe]

People that aquired these paintjobs when tey were available for the first time (and at a quite high price) might have bought them because it was quite obvious from the advertising, that they never again get a chance to get them.

Let's say you're a (nerd) collector. Someone announces this "handmade sword of He Man" limited Edition (only 1000 made).
Now the next year the producer tells: "well let's sell another two thousand of them...but half the price".

It's not like a "limited offer" at McD for a seasonal meal...

However, that is exactly NOT how they were advertised. You assumed it meant that. Big difference.

 

[Splette]

I can't imagine there's bad intent behind that. There is no way they would alienate their fanbase by doing something unnecessary like that. I guess it's just sloppiness. Maybe they don't have a dedicated person for the shop and no one feels responsible for making sure everything is nice and tidy and up to date in there...

But I understand how people may get upset if they paid money for a skin, because they thought they will not get another chance to ever get it. So, yes FD should be more careful and consistent here. And they should clarify if 'limited time' actually means 'one time' offer as most people would assume.

Personally, I see the store as a way to donate money to FD for further development of Elite. I don't care much for the skins (at least as long as there's no 3rd perspective view).

 

[Jorlin]

However, that is exactly NOT how they were advertised. You assumed it meant that. Big difference.

we will have to agree to disagree then. no problem

 

[Zorro]

Not sure what I said that could be construed as fallacious. Nor do I appreciate being called a liar. Please expand on your point. Understand that I have worked in brick and mortar retail since the 1970's in the US, have a Business Degree, and do have a decent understanding of how these things work.

Although I understand the reasoning behind the ire of this discussion, and at a certain level actually do sympathize with folks, my points are EXACTLY why there is nothing legally wrong with what Frontier is doing AND I am trying to help people learn a little about reading online advertisements with proper skepticism to prevent this type of discomfort in their lives going forward. Reading comprehension and understanding how advertising works helps people critically decide to spend their money. Because a consumer 'thought an ad said something' does not mean it says that thing.

You're using legal talk in an issue that concerns integrity. Sophistry? Certainly.

This isn't a court Roybe, it's a bunch of people who feel they were misled. Legal niceties are not the issue.

 

[Roybe]

we will have to agree to disagree then. no problem

All good! Honestly, I hate retail just for these reasons. However, there really is nothing that can be done. You could ask for a refund or not play the game. None of that will change anything that will happen with the marketing of these products. It will still be done the same way. All you can do is understand what each term means in the advertisement and understand that is what is going to happen. Much less stress and worry.

 

[Herro Zaber]

Well we assumed limited meant it wouldn't be for sale again, Frontier meant limited as in not for sale all the time.

I assumed this would be the last chance to get the Union Jack and it would truly be unique (other wise £3 for a paint job is steep really...). And I know people discussed this in the forums so Frontier could have corrected us.

They didn't lie, they just...ugh

 

[Jorlin]

All good! Honestly, I hate retail just for these reasons. However, there really is nothing that can be done. You could ask for a refund or not play the game. None of that will change anything that will happen with the marketing of these products. It will still be done the same way. All you can do is understand what each term means in the advertisement and understand that is what is going to happen. Much less stress and worry.

It's just about people "feel" about this move.
Will they buy another "limited" thing of the store or will they just wait if it shows up again some time later for cheap?

Now for me, i won't buy "limited" stuff because it is advertised as such.
It would have to be something that cries out "hey that's me".

 

[Roybe]

You're using legal talk in an issue that concerns integrity. Sophistry? Certainly.

This isn't a court Roybe, it's a bunch of people who feel they were misled. Legal niceties are not the issue.

People feel they were misled. They weren't. They made assumptions about the meanings of advertisements which were incorrect. If they understood what the words meant, they would not have been misled. That is my point.

Adoredtv pointed this out to me.

Also, availability of the limited edition flag paint jobs will end this Monday so if you want to grab one before then, go to the store and add them to your basket.

http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=cbbe7b15e6

Now, there is a problem because one of the newsletters, a marketing item, called some of these items a 'limited edition' offer. Go at it. You were deceived. Get your money back AND do not let them tell you otherwise...and I would show that piece of advertising to those in charge of your consumer affairs. That is a serious matter. Of course they can claim publishing misprint....but that would be another issue.

 

[Siigari]

This seems to be a marketing thing that has been happening a lot lately in online game shops.

Limited time = not scarce, limited time offer (in the present.)
Limited edition = collectible, rare, valuable (both now and future-looking.)

They're going by the letter, not necessarily the spirit. Oh well :/

 

[Zorro]

People feel they were misled. They weren't. They made assumptions about the meanings of advertisements which were incorrect. If they understood what the words meant, they would not have been misled. That is my point.

And who gets to decide "what the words meant"? You?