Frontier: Can you please define your understanding of "Limited"

[RobinsonUK]

If you want things to have value out of game you don't want to sell them in a store at fixed prices. You want to sell them through player to player trading (you take a cut of the trade of course) and you have to spawn them inside the game world somehow, with varying rarity. At least that's how it worked in Team Fortress. I sold my Vintage Merryweather for over £50 in the end. This is only good for the game world as long as the items you can buy aren't game changing. Pay To Win would be the kiss of death I think.

So eventually what you need is player trading, out of game through some forum API or other, of in-game items.

 

[thenickmove]

Premium Beta backer here - so no, not expecting that.

What I'm asking is - should I pay £10 now for that skin, or wait 2 months and pay £5 and spend the other £5 on steam

That's interesting...our qualms with this seem completely different.
Your problem seems more related to them selling it for less than before (basically having a sale), while my problem with this is that they put a supposedly limited edition thing back on for people to buy.
Not saying either one is a 'better' thing to complain about, but up until now I thought we were all complaining about the same thing, which doesn't seem to be the case (and I find stupid things interesting )

 

[cletus]

Yup...this isn't a mistake, they've just changed their mind about what they sold us. Well that was the last purchase for me unless it's on sale. Happy to give them half of what they're asking for. And as a note I'll mention I was just there to grab the Nest pack, an Eagle skin and then noticed the Gold Viper skin and added that too. But then I noticed my "limited" flag skin was available and at half price. I removed the premium skins from my order and stopped browsing the skins altogether. They scored a few extra dollars out of me for using the word "limited" a short while back but they lost the revenue they would have made from me today.

 

[Titus Balls]

That's unbelievable!

12%?

CHARGE your battery, man!!!

Well I've been flying today! Nearly home though.

Actually to add to this my story from today was:

I was due to fly last night from London to Edinburgh - but due to adverse weather the flight was cancelled.

My air operator, unlike some, let me change the flight to this morning for free.

When I got the airport it was chaos. Systems were also down, there were massive queues. Tempers were getting frayed.

When we got on the flight, we sat on the tarmac for a further 45 minutes waiting for takeoff.

The company gave everyone on the flight free breakfast and coffee. At no point did they make any additional money from anyone on that flight.

Yet next time I fly to London I will consider booking with them first.

Simple things make happy customers, and happy customers make profits.

 

[T@F]

^^ THIS ^^

A lot of people seem to have the wrong end of the stick. The point of Titus's post is this exactly.

Who gives a monkey what titus says anyway.
He was gloating at the ppl who bought the game for offline and paid much more only not to get what they bought.
Yet he pays a few pound for a skin and up in arms because its on a deal.
All i can say is double standards with him comes to mind.

Learn to live with it,just like the off-liners have to.

 

[Titus Balls]

That's interesting...our qualms with this seem completely different.
Your problem seems more related to them selling it for less than before (basically having a sale), while my problem with this is that they put a supposedly limited edition thing back on for people to buy.
Not saying either one is a 'better' thing to complain about, but up until now I thought we were all complaining about the same thing, which doesn't seem to be the case (and I find stupid things interesting )

Well, I am upset with that too - but I take on board other peoples arguments the McDonald's route of "The McRib is Limited Edition" (again, and again). Actually up until a few minutes ago where I saw they have removed the wording the accidentally left on the UK and US skins - now I'm a bit angry again with it.

In that sense, it's up to Frontier how to market it - but I certainly won't be buying anything marked as limited edition going forward either purely on that basis.

 

[CMDR Byrt Makklin]

That why I said "You value it and decide how much you want to pay for it."

Sorry, I could have been clearer with my analogy - the problem here is that the purchasers go back home, are happy with what they got, and don't care that the people in the local area got the same thing cheaper. This is different - people are led into believing they're buying something they won't be able to get again and they do so because they want to support the seller. Then they find out down the line that the purchaser wasn't doing them a good deal at all. Bang. Anyone can have it - the item loses its value and is available to anyone at a reduced price. So, like you bought something at an enhanced price (for the locals) in Tibet, come home to find it in Ikea at a much cheaper rate. With more emotional investment in this case, because a lot of us want FD to succeed with this game.

Although they're really confusing a lot of us too with regards to how they see their fanbase.

 

[Titus Balls]

Who gives a monkey what titus says anyway.
He was gloating at the ppl who bought the game for offline and paid much more only not to get what they bought.
Yet he pays a few pound for a skin and up in arms because its on a deal.
All i can say is double standards with him comes to mind.

Learn to live with it,just like the off-liners have to.

Actually I wasn't gloating - I supported many of you and your arguments, I appreciated your arguments. I have a pragmatic view of software development though, and when people started throwing around threats of suing Frontier I felt it got sill.

Don't worry, gloat away yourself - Frontier lost another "backer" today.

 

[euclydian]

Yup...this isn't a mistake, they've just changed their mind about what they sold us. Well that was the last purchase for me unless it's on sale. Happy to give them half of what they're asking for. And as a note I'll mention I was just there to grab the Nest pack, an Eagle skin and then noticed the Gold Viper skin and added that too. But then I noticed my "limited" flag skin was available and at half price. I removed the premium skins from my order and stopped browsing the skins altogether. They scored a few extra dollars out of me for using the word "limited" a short while back but they lost the revenue they would have made from me today.

Similarly I had two tshirts in my cart and removed them, disappointing. I'm sure FD will work out ahead though..

 

[Joe Spivey]

I was going to treat myself to the boxed game for Saturnalia but i'm going to wait for the bad taste to go away before I even think about it. Hey, maybe it will be on sale in 10 weeks.

 

[Dirk Braben]

Somehow I feel bad for the devs getting crossed over by the marketing department which singlehandedly destroyed customer trust and therefore future sales.

Shortterm greed results in longterm dismay.

FD reduced themselves from a respectable product provider where I would consider buying stuff to a cheap grabbag where I might look for cheap offers. Nothing more. Lession learned, expectations adjusted.

 

[Juppstein]

Not disagreeing entirely with the OP. But to me it was crystal clear that those flag paint jobs would come back and that the prices could vary. This seems to be a common practise in more or less all games that sell cosmetic items. So it can happen you paid 4 bucks for something that will have a flash sale two days later. I think we all know how that works, just look at Steam Summer/Autumn/Winter sales....

 

[T@F]

Actually I wasn't gloating - I supported many of you and your arguments, I appreciated your arguments. I have a pragmatic view of software development though, and when people started throwing around threats of suing Frontier I felt it got sill.

Don't worry, gloat away yourself - Frontier lost another "backer" today.

I'm not gloating at all,after what happened with offline,i don't trust the company any more.
I'll just get on with it and just play the game,as there promises means nothing to me now.
I will also expect a surprise with the unlimited expansion later as well,prob won't be unlimited like they made it out to be.

 

[Dirk Braben]

I'm not gloating at all,after what happened with offline,i don't trust the company any more.
I'll just get on with it and just play the game,as there promises means nothing to me now.
I will also expect a surprise with the unlimited expansion later as well,prob won't be unlimited like they made it out to be.

I wonder when the kickstarter goodies are coming back (like the Premium Box, Founder access, etc.). Seeing the normal boxes reapper speaks words for me.

 

[Mephane]

That's interesting...our qualms with this seem completely different.
Your problem seems more related to them selling it for less than before (basically having a sale), while my problem with this is that they put a supposedly limited edition thing back on for people to buy.

Well and my qualm has always been that some paint jobs started off in some limited fashion in the first place. I'd prefer it if all* would from now on remain in the store forever, and new additions would also be permanent.


(*Except the 30 years anniversary one, I totally get why that would be a unique, one-time offer; but it would have made more sense as a free paint job instead of a purchase, many games have these free thank-you things on anniversaries etc.)

I wonder when the kickstarter goodies are coming back (like the Premium Box, Founder access, etc.). Seeing the normal boxes reapper speaks words for me.

Did you really believe that the regular box would be a backer exclusive? That they wouldn't want to see the game be on store shelves?

 

[Dirk Braben]

Did you really believe that the regular box would be a backer exclusive? That they wouldn't want to see the game be on store shelves?

Well, the normal box maybe not, but I thought the Premium Box was a KS/backer thing.
I do not think this anymore.

All my future purchases are nonemotional now. Sure, they should have been from the beginning, my bad. But I do not feel emotionally connected to this enterprise anymore.

This also affects how I will recommend their products in the future. Or how I don't recommend them.

With this unnecessary move they opened the floodgates for me. No mister niceguy anymore. No exceptions. No considerations.

Actually it's good they did it now - and not later when I would have dumped even more money into them.
I am not bitter, I am just valuating things different now.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

I'm NOT trying to stir or bait with what I am about to say...

But a number of people in this thread who are complaining about the re-sale of the flag skins are the same people that were defending Frontier against the removal of the offline mode. Don't get me wrong I completely understand where everyone is coming from with the flag sales. But the fact is that in both cases the flag skins and the offline mode - Frontier have communicated poorly! Both issues show how increasingly bad Frontier are in regards to communication and marketing. It would be great if everyone would hold Frontier (or any company) accountable when they do something wrong - regardless of whether it personally affects the individual or not.

All these bad PR moves are not going to do the game any favours at all come release...

 

[Titus Balls]

Well, the normal box maybe not, but I thought the Premium Box was a KS/backer thing.
I do not think this anymore.

All my future purchases are nonemotional now. Sure, they should have been from the beginning, my bad. But I do not feel emotionally connected to this enterprise anymore.

This also affects how I will recommend their products in the future. Or how I don't recommend them.

With this unnecessary move they opened the floodgates for me. No mister niceguy anymore. No exceptions. No considerations.

Actually it's good they did it now - and not later when I would have dumped even more money into them.

Yep pretty much this.

As the quote goes:

"Satisfied Customers Tell Three Friends, Angry Customers Tell 3,000"

Between my two main twitter accounts I have over 3000 followers, I also have nearly 400 YouTube subscribers almost purely from making videos with Elite: Dangerous.

I had requested to join the affiliate program, I most likely won't use it if accepted. Before this, I was one of those Satisfied Customers. Hell I'm not even angry, I'm just disappointed.

 

[JeffRyan]

I'm NOT trying to stir or bait with what I am about to say...

But a number of people in this thread who are complaining about the re-sale of the flag skins are the same people that were defending Frontier against the removal of the offline mode. Don't get me wrong I completely understand where everyone is coming from with the flag sales. But the fact is that in both cases the flag skins and the offline mode - Frontier have communicated poorly! Both issues show how increasingly bad Frontier are in regards to communication and marketing. It would be great if everyone would hold Frontier (or any company) accountable when they do something wrong - regardless of whether it personally affects the individual or not.

All these bad PR moves are not going to do the game any favours at all come release...

Why everyone should unite behind fair business practise.

 

[Titus Balls]

I'm NOT trying to stir or bait with what I am about to say...

But a number of people in this thread who are complaining about the re-sale of the flag skins are the same people that were defending Frontier against the removal of the offline mode. Don't get me wrong I completely understand where everyone is coming from with the flag sales. But the fact is that in both cases the flag skins and the offline mode - Frontier have communicated poorly! Both issues show how increasingly bad Frontier are in regards to communication and marketing. It would be great if everyone would hold Frontier (or any company) accountable when they do something wrong - regardless of whether it personally affects the individual or not.

All these bad PR moves are not going to do the game any favours at all come release...

It's called Blind Faith. But even that can only go so far with the majority of people. I don't think I'm denying that I had it during the offline debacle.

The Church of Braben has possibly lost another follower today to Cynical Atheism.

If Frontier can take a lesson from this, maybe they can restore some of my faith.