Frontier: Can you please define your understanding of "Limited"

[Titus Balls]

Titus - although I understand and agree with most of your points, and have posted as much, I wonder if you may be overreacting a little. After all, the flag paint jobs were pretty cheap in the first place. I think you should email Frontier and make your feelings known to them on this and point out this thread to them, and also point out that putting the paint jobs that they were previously selling for £10 each back on the store would be even more upsetting, and then see what happens into the future.

This may be a marketing mis step rather than the armageddon that many of us are assuming.

Fundamentally I don't actually have a major issue with them putting this stuff back up for sale, if they communicate it effectively, and they put out some explanation, or a poll or something, to the fans. If they put a poll up saying we're thinking of making the wireframe cobra available again due to popular demand and we'd like your comments, at least we would feel like we have a voice, and frankly I would probably say I was ok with it. However if they just do it I will be a little annoyed, having previously paid through the nose for it on the basis of a statement clearly designed to imply it was a one off thing (legalities aside).

As regards the offline mode, although it's comparable in some ways, it's in many ways not the same because it's much bigger. I would think that they had to make a decision between putting huge development resources into getting an offline mode working after release, which was probably only really needed by a small minority of customers, or using the resources to support other developments that work for the vast majority of customers. It upsets people in the same way, but I can understand why they made that decision. It was bound to upset quite a few people, but if they had to delay the planet landing expansion by 6 months to finish the offline mode, that would also have upset people, possibly even more of them. They were stuck in a difficult situation. I would also think that if 75% of their preorder customers had taken a refund and said they didn't want the game if there was no offline mode, they would have changed their stance pretty rapidly.

In this situation, they are degrading customer trust for little reason - it's just a few paintjob sales, and with a more clever communications strategy they really didn't need to upset anybody at all.

I am also trying very hard to keep in mind that they are extremely busy right now and they probably don't have time to think of everything. Give them feedback if you're not happy, and email them directly as well rather than just forum posting.

I think I've been reasonably calm and collected through this thread.

I have not threatened to ragequit, demand a refund, do a chargeback or anything people might point at me and say "throwing my toys out the pram".

I've even said I most likely will make future purchases on the store, but whereas before I would go straight to the store and just buy what I could (and over the last few months I've spend nearly another £70 on just skins and around another £100 on physical merch such as the T-shirts, hoodies, etc - because I bought plenty at the premier event - oh and I also paid £53 for the actual premier ticket after postage) now when they say "BUY THIS NOW, £10 FOR ONLY A LIMITED TIME" I'm going to be very, very skeptical.

They have lost a satisfied customer. It would be very easy to get this one back by making an apology and not doing it again, but even after that I'll still be very weary until their actions prove it.

So far today they have actually made it worse by further editing the skins they accidentally forgot to take the 14th September date off, no doubt this thread tipped them off to it.

Like I say, a satisfied customer tells X friends to buy a product or service, an angry customer tells XXXX not to. At the moment I'm a dis-satisfied customer - not at any stage of telling people to not buy the game, but certainly not going out my way to recommend it anymore to anyone.

I'm not here to see Frontier or the game suffer, but I'm not a poor person - I have disposable income every month and so far I'm now looking at spending it elsewhere, where Frontier would have happily got another £10-20 a month out of me if they continued to release new stuff on the store.

 

[Robbeh]

I think its all in the wording:

"Limited Time" - Available for a limited time period

"Limited Edition" - Limited number available

The terms are typically used in retail sales and do not translate well to digital sales admittedly. However (at least in the UK), it is generally understood that limited time offers have no constraints on being repeated. They just identify that that particular item is available/discounted for a set period of time.

The matter of re-releasing a limited time deal at a 50% discount so soon after a previous sale is a kick in the teeth and very poorly thought through though...

 

[Titus Balls]

I think its all in the wording:

"Limited Time" - Available for a limited time period

"Limited Edition" - Limited number available

The terms are typically used in retail sales and do not translate well to digital sales admittedly. However (at least in the UK), it is generally understood that limited time offers have no constraints on being repeated. They just identify that that particular item is available/discounted for a set period of time.

The matter of re-releasing a limited time deal at a 50% discount so soon after a previous sale is a kick in the teeth and very poorly thought through though...

You could be right

They are using the letter of the law to defeat the spirit of the law.

I know some people who could give them a Customer Satisfaction and Retention 101 class.

 

[Robbeh]

I'm in no way saying its right.

After the last few weeks with the wordplay used to justify the whole offline abandonment and the style in which the newsletters are now written, I'm am now paying extra attention to the precise wording of announcements coming from ED.

 

[Javert]

<snip> but certainly not going out my way to recommend it anymore to anyone.

Understood, but what I meant was, you are now saying that you can't recommend the game to anyone, based on the fact that the micro-transactions are being over agressively marketed.

If you like the game and you think it's great, and you want to support the development team, wouldn't you still recommend the game itself, especially given that none of the game additions on the store are needed in order to play.

That's the bit I was questioning as to why you would stop recommending the game, just because you don't like the marketing strategy of the cosmetic additions.

Why not just stop buying the additions, but continue supporting and recommending the core game?

 

[Titus Balls]

Understood, but what I meant was, you are now saying that you can't recommend the game to anyone, based on the fact that the micro-transactions are being over agressively marketed.

If you like the game and you think it's great, and you want to support the development team, wouldn't you still recommend the game itself, especially given that none of the game additions on the store are needed in order to play.

That's the bit I was questioning as to why you would stop recommending the game, just because you don't like the marketing strategy of the cosmetic additions.

Why not just stop buying the additions, but continue supporting and recommending the core game?

Active vs Passive

If someone comes to me and asks "How is Elite: Dangerous" I'll say "It's fantastic". If they ask "Should I buy it?" I'll say "Yes". I would also advise them to be weary of the store and tell them of this experience.

I won't however be going out my way to tell people "YOU SHOULD BY THIS GAME" like I did last week. I've lost that zeal.

When it comes to my videos, I'll still make them because I want to (and it's good practice for my video editing skills - and allows me to continue justifying the additional cost I took on getting AbobeCC - that was my choice - but was directly driven by my passion for ED up till now).

When it comes to buying additions, that is my choice to continue - but I suspect I might spend £5 every few months at the most if I feel like it.

 

[DhuAlan]

Active vs Passive

If someone comes to me and asks "How is Elite: Dangerous" I'll say "It's fantastic". If they ask "Should I buy it?" I'll say "Yes". I would also advise them to be weary of the store and tell them of this experience.

I won't however be going out my way to tell people "YOU SHOULD BY THIS GAME" like I did last week. I've lost that zeal.

When it comes to my videos, I'll still make them because I want to (and it's good practice for my video editing skills - and allows me to continue justifying the additional cost I took on getting AbobeCC - that was my choice - but was directly driven by my passion for ED up till now).

When it comes to buying additions, that is my choice to continue - but I suspect I might spend £5 every few months at the most if I feel like it.

Not sure this'll mean much as it's coming from someone who has recently relocated his pants from his head. But I'm sorry that an experience such as this has dampened your obvious enthusiasm for Elite Dangerous.

This is yet another foolish action by this company, really hoping it is the last.

 

[Dirk Braben]

Active vs Passive

If someone comes to me and asks "How is Elite: Dangerous" I'll say "It's fantastic". If they ask "Should I buy it?" I'll say "Yes". I would also advise them to be weary of the store and tell them of this experience.

I won't however be going out my way to tell people "YOU SHOULD BY THIS GAME" like I did last week. I've lost that zeal.

When it comes to my videos, I'll still make them because I want to (and it's good practice for my video editing skills - and allows me to continue justifying the additional cost I took on getting AbobeCC - that was my choice - but was directly driven by my passion for ED up till now).

When it comes to buying additions, that is my choice to continue - but I suspect I might spend £5 every few months at the most if I feel like it.

Yup, same for me.

If someone asks me "How is this Elite: Dangerous game?" I'll give the same answer as before - "Awesome". Because the game has not changed.

When they asked me "Should I get the expansion pass?" I'd give the same answer as before - "Depends. Look at the offer and wage for yourself if you keep on playing the game and/or if a single extension might be enough for you. Keep in mind the risk of no expansion appearing ever, too.". Because that has not changed.

If they ask me "Should I get cosmetic stuff?" my answer is "Yeah, if you like. It's supporting the game on the long run, paying server and expansion costs". It's still the same, with the addition "but if you want to be cheap have a lookout for possible future offers. So get it now or wait for a bargain, it has happened."

And if they ask me about how the personal experience about customer relationship or how the ethic/moral impression is (because this matters to some of my friends) I currently don't have an answer.

 

[Akavilyn]

When it comes to my videos, I'll still make them because I want to (and it's good practice for my video editing skills - and allows me to continue justifying the additional cost I took on getting AbobeCC - that was my choice - but was directly driven by my passion for ED up till now).

I'm glad about that. Really enjoy the videos.

I gave FDEV a prod about this thread earlier as well. Hoping they'll come in here and smooth things out a bit.

 

[SuBSynk]

I find this thread pretty confusing, most items i have ever bought that are advertised as a limited time mean just that.

Not that it will never return to be bought again...

If something sells well then i expect a company to offer it up to sell again.

 

[Oppenheimer]

I think its all in the wording:

"Limited Time" - Available for a limited time period

"Limited Edition" - Limited number available

The terms are typically used in retail sales and do not translate well to digital sales admittedly. However (at least in the UK), it is generally understood that limited time offers have no constraints on being repeated. They just identify that that particular item is available/discounted for a set period of time.

The matter of re-releasing a limited time deal at a 50% discount so soon after a previous sale is a kick in the teeth and very poorly thought through though...

Would it not first have to be on sale for full price in order for the limited to refer to a discount period? As there was no full price sale the limited availability means just that, available untill the 14th with no relation to it's pricing.

 

[irongut]

Limiting stuff like flags to alpha and beta players when around 10x more people would likely buy after them after release would make pretty bad business sense, don't you think?

Edit - just so you know I'm not disagreeing with you at all - this is pretty shady - but it's just logical that they were always going to be back on sale eventually.

I disagree. Calling something limited edition and making it available again later at a cheaper price is bad business sense. It is definitely false advertising and that can get you in legal trouble.

 

[SuBSynk]

I disagree. Calling something limited edition and making it available again later at a cheaper price is bad business sense. It is definitely false advertising and that can get you in legal trouble.

"bad business sense" would be not offering an item back up for sale if it has a chance to sell and make more money for said business imo.

 

[Krait_79]

I think its all in the wording:

"Limited Time" - Available for a limited time period

"Limited Edition" - Limited number available

The terms are typically used in retail sales and do not translate well to digital sales admittedly. However (at least in the UK), it is generally understood that limited time offers have no constraints on being repeated. They just identify that that particular item is available/discounted for a set period of time.

The matter of re-releasing a limited time deal at a 50% discount so soon after a previous sale is a kick in the teeth and very poorly thought through though...

This, i also think too many people buy into things without checking they fully understand what they are getting.

 

[Titus Balls]

Would it not first have to be on sale for full price in order for the limited to refer to a discount period? As there was no full price sale the limited availability means just that, available untill the 14th with no relation to it's pricing.

The picture is mis-leading in that it was £3 up till the 14th September "Available for a limited time only"

The they have removed that now as of this morning. Price is still £1.50.

So what it's implied is "For a limited time you can pay full price, we'll put it from the store and now we're selling it again without the word limited but at 1/2 the price"

Again, using the letter of the law to defeat the spirit of the law (and leave a bad taste in many customers mouths)

 

[Dirk Braben]

This, i also think too many people buy into things without checking they fully understand what they are getting.

And this is why we have Consumer protection.

 

[ACenterForAnts]

It's not really 'poor communication' as such, but rather seems much more like intentionally bad practise.

But once again we seem to be in a 250+ reply thread (not as big as an Offline thread obviously ) with no input from Frontier to address our concerns or explain what is happening.

It shouldn't take much to provide an explanation within the first page or two so that people are put at ease (if that's possible)

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

And this is why we have Consumer protection.

Online cooldown period. Statutory what? 14 days?

 

[Titus Balls]

But once again we seem to be in a 250+ reply thread (not as big as an Offline thread obviously ) with no input from Frontier to address our concerns or explain what is happening.

It shouldn't take much to provide an explanation within the first page or two so that people are put at ease (if that's possible)

That's pretty much all I asked for.

By not doing that it has grown.

 

[Andromalius]

Oh look, people feeling entitled about things that don't matter. Actively looking for ways to limit FDEV's profitability. You DO want expansions, RIGHT?

Uh, yes, but I already paid for them, actually. So I don't see wth ship skins have to do with it.

All in all it is yet another bad move and they start to pile them, which is a problem if it starts to break the trust of the customers. At this point one can wonder about anything. Will expansiosn actually be released ? They said so, but they said other things that did not come to pass. That's why keeping your word is mportant, especially when you can appear to be greedy by not doing so. Too many FD actions smell of money grabbing before a catastrophic release and on the long run the company will suffer from it.