Frontier: Can you please define your understanding of "Limited"

[Edward Lewis]

Hi everyone,

Just managed to get up to speed on this thread.

We just wanted to do a cool deal for people that didn't get the chance to buy the skins last time they were online, but we definitely should have looked more closely at our previous deals before putting this out. We've had a lot of requests since they came down to reinstate them as part of our 50% off deal - nothing malicious was meant by putting this up. This is the nature of sales such as Black Friday - businesses put up products at a reduced rate to give people a chance at snatching up something cool, and get some custom they might not have otherwise.

They'll be coming down on Monday and we have no plans to run the Viper flags again. We're keeping a close eye on what deals have gone out before to avoid any confrontation going forward.

Cheers.

 

[Edward Lewis]

That's pretty much all I asked for.

By not doing that it has grown.

Sorry mate. Didn't want to frustrate or annoy you.

 

[Stressfest]

Don't fret too much Edward, most of us are truly appreciative of the deal. Only a few of the usual happy campers having a good ol' fashioned whinge. Keep up the good work mate

 

[CaptainTrips]

Well, I am not really an actively partcipating member of this forum, but I do read it during the day at lunch and whilst hyperspacing and docking during the evenings. However, this does all come across as a wee bit snidey on the side of FD - its a shame as during the whole development process FD seemed REALLY customer focused and on our side - but this just makes them look like another money grabbing outfit - yes I know they are a business and in it to make money but the developer/customer relationship has been seriously dented here. Also, lots of updates from Braben when he wanted us to fund his pet-project but a stoney silence when the fanbase starts to get upset.

However, this doesn't affect ME financially at all as until a 3rd person camera view is implemented (however they decide to do it) I have no intention of spending money on a skin I can only see when I am outfitting my ship - but it has lost a sour taste in my mouth when I see some of my fellow Elite Dangerous players feeling a bit mugged off.

Then again, all FD really needed to do is add a few extra rivets on the skin and sell it as UK Flag V2.

They have clandestinely mugged us off a bit in the past as well - giving us free "Sol Permits" so all backers automatically get access to that system, although none of us were even aware that it was a restricted system in the first place, somewhere all of us would of wanted to visit at some point - so technically nothing gained there - that's snidey in its own way.

Still, to leave on a more positive note - the game is an absolute blast and really enjoying the experience - from a personal point of view the sound designers have done a fantastic job - I play with the music turned all the way down as it is so immersive.

 

[Watcher]

Hi everyone,

Just managed to get up to speed on this thread.

We just wanted to do a cool deal for people that didn't get the chance to buy the skins last time they were online, but we definitely should have looked more closely at our previous deals before putting this out. We've had a lot of requests since they came down to reinstate them as part of our 50% off deal - nothing malicious was meant by putting this up. This is the nature of sales such as Black Friday - businesses put up products at a reduced rate to give people a chance at snatching up something cool, and get some custom they might not have otherwise.

They'll be coming down on Monday and we have no plans to run the Viper flags again. We're keeping a close eye on what deals have gone out before to avoid any confrontation going forward.

Cheers.

Fair enough

 

[thenickmove]

We've had a lot of requests since they came down to reinstate them as part of our 50% off deal - nothing malicious was meant by putting this up.

People actually mail you guys saying: 'Hey...you know those flag skins? How about you put them back up. And while you're at it...put it at a discount too'.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you a liar, but I do find that really hard to believe (or maybe I have too much trust in humanity to think no-one would actually request such a thing )

and get some custom they might not have otherwise.

Sure, putting up something custom for a sale is awesome! However...if that custom thing is something that was sold before as being limited, then that's misleading.

 

[ACenterForAnts]

They'll be coming down on Monday and we have no plans to run the Viper flags again. We're keeping a close eye on what deals have gone out before to avoid any confrontation going forward.

Just don't try this with the Cobra Wire frame.

Bring out wire frames for other craft (I'll buy them all) but not the 30th anniversary Limited Edition wire frame.

 

[euclydian]

All they had to do was put the Flag skins out for a different ship (i.e Cobra) and likely no one would care. I'd probably of bought them again.

 

[Titus Balls]

Hi everyone,

Just managed to get up to speed on this thread.

We just wanted to do a cool deal for people that didn't get the chance to buy the skins last time they were online, but we definitely should have looked more closely at our previous deals before putting this out. We've had a lot of requests since they came down to reinstate them as part of our 50% off deal - nothing malicious was meant by putting this up. This is the nature of sales such as Black Friday - businesses put up products at a reduced rate to give people a chance at snatching up something cool, and get some custom they might not have otherwise.

They'll be coming down on Monday and we have no plans to run the Viper flags again. We're keeping a close eye on what deals have gone out before to avoid any confrontation going forward.

Cheers.

Thank you Ed - your input is appreciated, by me at least.

Certainly all I ask is that going forward use the wording of "Limited" and "Exclusive" very carefully. You probably saw that not just I felt that in this case the wording was not explicit.

I understand you want to get in on this "black friday" fever (even though it's a silly holiday event) and it's great you guys are making more money, but I'd suggest not at the trust of backers - in this case if they had gone on the store at the same price as before in the case of them being "limited" you wouldn't have had myself create this thread. If you are, then I'd suggest giving more than 2 months between the two events (especially as we're in pre-release it made it seem worse in my opinion, but as I can see not in others).

I'm just going to be more weary of what I read on the store now. Hopefully my trust can be rebuilt over time.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

All they had to do was put the Flag skins out for a different ship (i.e Cobra) and likely no one would care. I'd probably of bought them again.

^^ This, would have got them in a heartbeat

 

[Edward Lewis]

Also, try not to think that we're a massive corporation of suit-wearing greedy folk. There's a team of 8 people in the marketing team - a lot of you met every one of us the other night. We're not in the business of ripping people off or putting nasty money-grabbing deals on the site.

 

[Zalifer]

...We've had a lot of requests since they came down to reinstate them as part of our 50% off deal...

...They'll be coming down on Monday and we have no plans to run the Viper flags again...

Glad to get an answer, only things I have to say is that

1) I hope the wording was wrong on that first part, as to my knowledge, nobody could have asked for that, as nobody knew a 50% sale was coming. I do indeed imagine people wanted to get their hands on the flag skins again, that's not the part I have issue with.

2) People were under the impression that they were not planned to be run again, the FIRST time they were available.

Thanks for the answer, Edward, it does clear up the situation a little.

A little more care should be taken on matters such as this in the future. It erodes at the trust people have for the company, when you sell "limited edition" skins that return for sale at a later date. Trust is a renewable resource, but it can be hard to get more if you waste what you have.

Also, try not to think that we're a massive corporation of suit-wearing greedy folk. There's a team of 8 people in the marketing team - a lot of you met every one of us the other night. We're not in the business of ripping people off or putting nasty money-grabbing deals on the site.

You don't have to have a lot of people to do shady business...

"Limited time" offers, exclusive skins you HAVE to buy the pack to get, €12.50 for a skin...
The store is not exactly the worst out there, but it's far from 100% fair to the consumer. I understand you need to make money, but I'd rather see less of the "bonus" skins locked inside a pack, for example. Sure, make the pack 6 for the price of 5 to encourage people to get them all, but don't lock one specific one away, so I can't buy it individually if it's the only one I want, or can afford.

 

[Monk]

You sound like a classic Neo-Liberal. 'Just let companies do what they like, hell it's their business.'

Fortunately there are regulations in place to PROTECT consumers from false marketing and advertising.

Limited means limited. There is either a time limit or limit on stock. This is finite, the product is not available after that time or there is no more stock. Like Limited Editions they ARE interpreted by consumers to mean this is a one off opportunity to purchase and own the item. This enables the company to increase the cost of the product as it is considered an item of scarcity. The value this scarcity creates is devalued if the product is subsequently sold again especially if it's sold for less. So there is a tangible loss to the customer. This is plain misleading and unfair on consumers; shame on you Frontier I'm really surprised at you.

Fortunately we have laws to protect us from lying companies.

Monk, your talking out if your proverbial, this chicanery will damage Frontier more than any reselling of limited products.

If you want to label me, might as well get it right.

I'm an anti-federalist, socialist, regulated free marketer. Yeah, in some instances that would seem neo-liberal, however being truly neo-liberal would mean that I'd want corporations to be in bed with the government. In fact, I'd rather the federal government was so reduced that regulations would be required of individual states and that the states would decide how regulated the corporations are...bye bye conglomerates and monopolies! I'm actually a major supporter of consumer protection...this is just one instance where I think the outcry for foul play is just unfounded and goes too far.

ANYWAY

It seems we are getting in yet another dispute about definitions and semantics. What does 'limited' really mean to each person. Lets go a bunch of posts to figure it out! I still think limited time offer means the current offer is limited and that it doesn't preclude future offerings of the same thing even at a lesser price. By purchasing at that price at that time, you agreed to the EXPENSE of putting money towards aesthetics and minuscule content. That is my definition...I'll put a definitions below by people who understand these things much better that stupid old me...

http://www.glgresearch.com/Dictionary/CGS-Limited-Time-Offer-(LTO).html

The game Frontier is playing with is a tricky one. They can seriously harm the success of future sales by falling into there own marketing traps. Pressuring a yes/no decision from your customer is a great way to turn out purchases however, it sets you up for loyalty fatigue when you put up the same items for limited offer again. It is a calculated risk, hopefully one that was considered before the decision.

 

[Non Grata]

Could they mishandle three issues in a row? Really?

 

[JeffRyan]

Hi everyone,

Just managed to get up to speed on this thread.

We just wanted to do a cool deal for people that didn't get the chance to buy the skins last time they were online, but we definitely should have looked more closely at our previous deals before putting this out. We've had a lot of requests since they came down to reinstate them as part of our 50% off deal - nothing malicious was meant by putting this up. This is the nature of sales such as Black Friday - businesses put up products at a reduced rate to give people a chance at snatching up something cool, and get some custom they might not have otherwise.

They'll be coming down on Monday and we have no plans to run the Viper flags again. We're keeping a close eye on what deals have gone out before to avoid any confrontation going forward.

Cheers.

Thanks Ed. Honestly, after seeing a lot of what's going on consumerwise, I am honestly willing to write a lot of what has gone down to inexperience. Frontier Developments is NOT a new company. But as a publisher they're still learning. I think most of us are willing to to forgive a few mis-steps here and there and the odd kabloozie as long as FDEV learn from these mistakes. Like I said, marketing is still in gamma. But consider this a grace period. But please learn. Most of us who're here REALLY want the game and FDEV to succeed.

 

[Edward Lewis]

Glad to get an answer, only things I have to say is that

1) I hope the wording was wrong on that first part, as to my knowledge, nobody could have asked for that, as nobody knew a 50% sale was coming. I do indeed imagine people wanted to get their hands on the flag skins again, that's not the part I have issue with.

2) People were under the impression that they were not planned to be run again, the FIRST time they were available.

Thanks for the answer, Edward, it does clear up the situation a little.

A little more care should be taken on matters such as this in the future. It erodes at the trust people have for the company, when you sell "limited edition" skins that return for sale at a later date. Trust is a renewable resource, but it can be hard to get more if you waste what you have.

I agree with you that we should take more care in future. Available for a limited time doesn't necessarily mean it won't be available for a limited time later... to be fair. However, I do agree we should be more clear and upfront about it!

 

[Edward Lewis]

Thanks Ed. Honestly, after seeing a lot of what's going on consumerwise, I am honestly willing to write a lot of what has gone down to inexperience. Frontier Developments is NOT a new company. But as a publisher they're still learning. I think most of us are willing to to forgive a few mis-steps here and there and the odd kabloozie as long as FDEV learn from these mistakes. Like I said, marketing is still in gamma. But consider this a grace period. But please learn. Most of us who're here REALLY want the game and FDEV to succeed.

Marketing Gamma 1.04 is incoming.

Full change log below:

- Fixed a bug where we put up 'limited edition' flag skins, take them down and then put them up again later.
- Stopped an error where we saw 'slow to reply to forum comments rate'.
- Improved communication when concerning changes to gameplay features.
- More hilarious self-referential list-based jokes.

 

[Akavilyn]

I agree with you that we should take more care in future. Available for a limited time doesn't necessarily mean it won't be available for a limited time later... to be fair. However, I do agree we should be more clear and upfront about it!

Good stuff - hope that gets passed back to the marketing and Store folk. Just needs to be clear.

On the subject of being clear... what's the official word on the most premium of premium paint jobs; the 30th Anniversary wireframe and the metallic?

 

[JeffRyan]

Marketing Gamma 1.04 is incoming.

Full change log below:

- Fixed a bug where we put up 'limited edition' flag skins, take them down and then put them up again later.
- Stopped an error where we saw 'slow to reply to forum comments rate'.
- Improved communication when concerning changes to gameplay features.
- More hilarious self-referential list-based jokes.

Excellent. Downloading now.

 

[Non Grata]

Marketing Gamma 1.04 is incoming.

Full change log below:

- Fixed a bug where we put up 'limited edition' flag skins, take them down and then put them up again later.
- Stopped an error where we saw 'slow to reply to forum comments rate'.
- Improved communication when concerning changes to gameplay features.
- More hilarious self-referential list-based jokes.

'Your client is too new' pls fix.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Marketing Gamma 1.04 is incoming.

Full change log below:

- Fixed a bug where we put up 'limited edition' flag skins, take them down and then put them up again later.
- Stopped an error where we saw 'slow to reply to forum comments rate'.
- Improved communication when concerning changes to gameplay features.
- More hilarious self-referential list-based jokes.

You're such a tease