Frontier: Can you please define your understanding of "Limited"

[Phoenix]

I understand where you are coming from, however, a limited time sale of something doesn't mean a one time sale. However, I am not going to keep mucking about with this idea. Out of curiosity, did you verify they have remained up since the 1st? Or were they taken down? Then subsequently put back up?

Actually, this does not matter. Either they did not say the truth about taking it down, or they did not say the truth about not going to put them in again.
Or they forgot taking them off the shop and nobody noticed until today. But I guess this possibility is so unlikely that the probability of it is near a plain zero.

 

[Titus Balls]

Actually, this does not matter. Either they did not say the truth about taking it down, or they did not say the truth about not going to put them in again.
Or they forgot taking them off the shop and nobody noticed until today. But I guess this possibility is so unlikely that the probability of it is near a plain zero.

Nope - because they've updated all the images in the store - they know they are there.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

https://twitter.com/elitedangerous/status/516926197738242049

On that they were very specific, it was for the 30th Anniversary celebrations. That this would be the only chance to get it. To turn back on that would cement a lot of distrust in Frontier.

I'm glad you said that.

As someone who specifically bought that one skin, solely based on it being marketed specifically as "30th Anniversary Limited Edition", plus what they said about that particular one becoming unavailable, and only being on sale for the 10 days celebrations, Frontier better not ever bring that back. I remember one poster referring to this one specific issue as being 'sacrosanct', and I agree with that sentiment.

That particular wording was very specific, and it was clear what that meant; that it was a one-off skin, and it would be unreasonable to think that buyers of that skin would think otherwise. Value was added in its perceived exclusivity.

 

[Rog]

A disinterested party might almost think that Frontier are being.... dishonest/misleading in their marketing.

That surprises me.

 

[Marc Alexander]

A disinterested party might almost think that Frontier are being.... dishonest/misleading in their marketing.

That surprises me.

I suppose as someone that's requested a refund for the game that's means you does it? Mischief making are we?

 

[Rog]

I suppose as someone that's requested a refund for the game that's means you does it? Mischief making are we?

How that has any bearing on FD's marketing is beyond me: play the ball, not the man. As mentioning the 'R' word is forbidden for me outside of one thread, then I do not.

I'm not the OP here - are you suggesting TB is also mischief making? Should he not be able to talk about legitimate grievances? Are you defending misleading marketing?

FD certainly seem to be upsetting otherwise loyal players. Explain your defence to them not me.

 

[Vandaahl]

I just live in fear the limited edition wireframe appears on the market again.

I have the same, only with the expansion pass...

 

[Cosmos]

That's addressed in this post: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=65881&p=1605350&viewfull=1#post1605350

I understand in the US this fast-and-loose use is allowed, and you can kind of get away with it here (the McRib and other "limited time" offers that keep coming back are prime example) but it doesn't quite work for digital items.

In some cases Frontier have been loose with the language, in others they have been very specific - only to turn round within two months and go back on that wording.

It's not like, say an original run of a physical item - and then second, third runs etc. With a physical item (say a Star Wars toy) you bought that first run and kept it in the box. A few years later they sell a second run cheaper - that's OK because the physical item retains value being a first run.

With digital items, this is not possible.

I think its worth asking if you hadn't bought the wire-frame paint job at that time would you still be arguing for it never to be available again?

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I have the same, only with the expansion pass...

In this case I don't see what the harm would be.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I think its worth asking if you hadn't bought the wire-frame paint job at this time would you still be arguing for it never to be available again?

Yes I would argue that it never be sold again - in exactly the same way that I couldn't get into the Kickstarter because I was too late for that.

 

[jabokai]

I don't see what the harm would be.

So you kick up a stink when someone gets some free/exploited in game money because it's cheating and unfair, etc, but you're fine with FD lying to make more money? Good stuff!

 

[Cosmos]

Yes I would argue that it never be sold again - in exactly the same way that I couldn't get into the Kickstarter because I was too late for that.

Did you buy the wire-frame paintjob?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Did you buy the wire-frame paintjob?

If you read up, then you know I did. It doesn't invalidate what I said one little bit.

Kickstarter supporters got some nice goodies that I can't get because I was too late for the KS campaign - I came in at Premium Beta, paid more for that than a lot of Kickstarter backers, yet I didn't get the same benefits/rewards that those KS backers did. You don't see me whining about that. I accept that I was too late for the KS campaign.

So in exactly that same way, if you were too late to purchase the 30th Anniversary Limited Edition Cobra Wireframe Paint Job, which was only on sale for a period of 10 days of celebration of that anniversary and marketed as such, then tough cheese. If you hummed and hawed about purchasing that particular skin until it was too late - then tough cheese, that's life, and deal with it.

 

[Cosmos]

If you read up, then you know I did. It doesn't invalidate what I said one little bit.

Kickstarter supporters got some nice goodies that I can't get because I was too late for the KS campaign - I came in at Premium Beta, paid more for that than a lot of Kickstarter backers, yet I didn't get the same benefits/rewards that those KS backers did. You don't see me whining about that. I accept that I was too late for the KS campaign.

So in exactly that same way, if you were too late to purchase the 30th Anniversary Limited Edition Cobra Wireframe Paint Job, which was only on sale for a period of 10 days of celebration of that anniversary and marketed as such, then tough cheese. If you hummed and hawed about purchasing that particular skin until it was too late - then tough cheese, that's life, and deal with it.

Which KS rewards are you referring to? As far as I am aware pretty much everything in the game that was part of a KS reward is or will be available to anyone who plays it. So in this case I'd argue the wire-frame, and chrome Viper paint jobs are the exception.

 

[Titus Balls]

In this case I don't see what the harm would be.

Come now Cosmos.

The harm would be that each week up to the end of PB Frontier we're pushing at every opportunity "BUY NOW THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE TO GET THE EXPANSION PASS, ONE TIME OFFER ONLY, YOU MUST BUY NOW"

To then go back on that:

A) Confirm Frontier is ruled by a marketing team who cannot keep a consistent story going, the worst thing a PR department can do (because PR is about a straight, consistent story)
B) The biggest amount of negative press Frontier have seen, eclipsing even Solo Offline-Gate. It doesn't matter what your views are on it, but it does matter the opinion of the journalists who write this stuff and they will look at the facts, pure and simple.

 

[Titus Balls]

Which KS rewards are you referring to? As far as I am aware pretty much everything in the game that was part of a KS reward is or will be available to anyone who plays it. So in this case I'd argue the wire-frame, and chrome Viper paint jobs are the exception.

Lets see, KS exclusives that no one was able to get afterwards, especially beyond PB:

• Be an Elite supporter, and get a digital code when the game is released to apply a transferrable decal to your ship, unique to you, the game’s backers
• Imperial Bounty Hunter: Have the option to start in an Imperial Colony with an Imperial Eagle Mk II Fighter with upgraded weapons and shields and 1,000 CR
• Federal Trader: Have the option to start in a Federal border system with a basic Cobra Mk III loaded with cargo worth 1,000 CR and 1,000 CR in cash.
• Your name* forms part of the naming database (so your name will be one of those used randomly for non-player in-game characters)
• Pirate: Have the option to start in an anarchic Frontier system with a stolen but upgraded Cobra Mk III and only 100 CR.
• Independent Trader: Have the option to start in the Lave system with a basic Cobra Mk III and only 100 CR
• Explorer: Have the option to start on the edge of explored space with a long range version of the Cobra Mk III and 3,000 CR
• Access to the private backer’s discussion forum
• Kickstarter Special: Have the option to start in the founder's world with any starter ship and 4,000 CR
• T shirt with "I backed Elite: Dangerous" on the back
• Be a founding member of ‘The Elite’ in the game
• Be a design decision forum member
• Have a space station named* after you
• Have a planet named* after you
• Have a frontier star system named* after you

Some are physical rewards, but the rest are KS exclusive.

Am *I* bitter I can't have these? No, I was going through an awful time in my life when the KS was going on and I could not/didn't have the urge to back the game at that time. I came in at PB because timing and that package suited me. I would not expect anyone who came in after me to get any of the above rewards, nor get the expansion pass - these were all one time limited offers.

 

[Cosmos]

Come now Cosmos.

The harm would be that each week up to the end of PB Frontier we're pushing at every opportunity "BUY NOW THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE TO GET THE EXPANSION PASS, ONE TIME OFFER ONLY, YOU MUST BUY NOW"

To then go back on that:

A) Confirm Frontier is ruled by a marketing team who cannot keep a consistent story going, the worst thing a PR department can do (because PR is about a straight, consistent story)
B) The biggest amount of negative press Frontier have seen, eclipsing even Solo Offline-Gate. It doesn't matter what your views are on it, but it does matter the opinion of the journalists who write this stuff and they will look at the facts, pure and simple.

Well I think the buy this now in ten days malarkey was a serious mistake from Frontier and I do hope they have understood how its upset and divided the community. I also hope they have learnt from it and won't be doing it again because it just es people off and you can't be unaware of the situation re the wire-frame paint job because its such an iconic kinda thing. I played the original back in the day too.. not claiming exclusivity here but I did suggest the thing in the DDF a while back.. was it my idea? I dunno but once mentioned it shortly appeared.

It seems to me objections here are from people who've bought it - and no didn't like the way Frontier went about it, but are we really that selfish to push for it to never be sold again? Come on dude..

 

[Flavio]

the time period is limited, not the numbers sold.

Yes but it just gives a month but not which year so it could be limited to 14 September 3303 in which case we have time before making a purchase or it might mean that it is limited to that cost up to that date and thereafter it will cost a different amount.
I agree that they should explain this ambiguity or say that for certain skins you have three months from buying the game in order to buy a skin type as I am sure that some people who buy the game after September may want one of those skins but cannot get it due to it being limited but you are never going to please everyone (in my view, they should never had limited skins, just skins of varying price in order to limit the number of commanders seen with it or say that no skin can be bought by more than half of the players so that once half the number of players has bought a skin, it becomes unavailable until two more people buy the game and then that skin becomes available for only one more commander )

 

[Cosmos]

You are being asinine and disingenuous. I even go as far as to suggest you are deliberately trolling.

If I'd known about the KS campaign - and I still to this day don't know why I didn't - I'd have backed at the "£300 or more" level. Alas, I was too late. Please read the kickstarter page to remind yourself of the benefits from that level down, a lot of those I will never have.

Your 'argument' is invalid.

Lets not make this personal bro. I'm not interested in a knife fight

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

It seems to me objections here are from people who've bought it - and no didn't like the way Frontier went about it, but are we really that selfish to push for it to never be sold again? Come on dude..

"selfish"... oh you're one of those are you?

I don't mind one bit being called 'selfish' in this particular case. Deal with it.

Once again you seem to be ignoring the specific marketing for the wireframe skin. This is either due to not being able to grasp the meaning of the more definite wording of that marketing for that particular skin, or you are deliberately ignoring it.

 

[Titus Balls]

Well I think the buy this now in ten days malarkey was a serious mistake from Frontier and I do hope they have understood how its upset and divided the community. I also hope they have learnt from it and won't be doing it again because it just es people off and you can't be unaware of the situation re the wire-frame paint job because its such an iconic kinda thing. I played the original back in the day too.. not claiming exclusivity here but I did suggest the thing in the DDF a while back.. was it my idea? I dunno but once mentioned it shortly appeared.

It seems to me objections here are from people who've bought it - and no didn't like the way Frontier went about it, but are we really that selfish to push for it to never be sold again? Come on dude..

No you're right, Frontier DID set themselves up by doing this - this we are not in disagreement about. They were *very* specific in the wording.

Anyway, people keep bringing up the Wireframe Skin - I can be 99.99999% certain that will never be sold again so it's a moot point you keep bringing up.

To do so and remove the exclusivity offered by Frontier would be a slap in the face and would remove even more (and in some cases all of the) trust that people have in the company. If they did that with the most exclusive item they've sold - guaranteed a lot of people on here would never buy a skin again, let alone continue to play the game.

For me personally, with the whole flag skin thing - selling as limited edition, then selling at 1/2 the price not limited edition, then saying they would remove them 1st December - but continuing to sell them - nope.

I was the type of customer that if they had just been honest up front and stuck to their word I would have paid £43 this week to buy all the new skins. As it is, they might be lucky to get £3 out of me for one of the pirate skins if I feel like it.

You also know I've been an advocate for this game - I should feel lucky that my videos have been included in so many newsletters, and that Frontier choose to use my videos in their marketing. I don't though, a few things around here have left a sour taste. I have felt very little drive to make another one at the moment despite the fact a few of them have over 20k views each - free marketing for Frontier!

At the end of the day, these are not issues of gameplay - this is peoples real hard earned money. Some people make plenty and can afford it, for some people £10 is a lot of money! But either way, it feels like being smiled to while my wallet is being snatched. Luckily I was paying attention and managed to stop that.