Frontier confirmed - Murder/PKing is a valid gameplay choice, can we all move on now?

[Daffan]

Without LOSS it makes money useless

 

[djbrianw]

This subject is like 80's football stadium violence, you have 10% at each end baying for the others blood but so much genuine passion in the middle that everyone gets caught up in it and ends up taking sides. There is no winning here, for anyone, just varying degrees of loss. I'll say it again, stick a fork in this one Mods its done.

 

[Midnight_Sun323]

Ive already put forwards a solution that will be fair but harsh and END station griefing entirely.

On the first offence of opening fire in a station:

IMMEDIATE 25k bounty applied to the player.
Docking permission for that station is permanently revoked and they may NEVER land at that station again.
Player ship is destroyed by the station in a single shot and NOT offered the chance of ANY insurance.


On the SECOND offence:

Any current bounty for the faction whos territory the player is in, is immediately tripled.
The players ship is immediately destroyed in a single shot, no insurance is offered.
The player is forever banned from landing in any station controlled by that faction.
The player is forbidden to come within 100km of any station controlled by that faction on pain of death.
Whenever the player enters territory controlled by that faction, they are actively hunted down by system authorities and security.
A KOS marker is placed on the player, granting everyone in the factions territory the right to kill and claim the bounty on said player with or without a warrant scanner.
Dying does not negate these penalties and clearing the save file does nothing to these penalties either.

Harsh? Yeah...but no one will ever grief in a station again. The current Dev offered solutions dont solve the problem. This will.

Love it!! All the griefers love to fall back on the excuse of "it's Elite Dangerous."

Well so it is, you reap what you sow. I'll bet they moan and cry that it's unfair, though...

 

[snotface]

The in station griefing situation isnt pvp, and needs to be addressed in a harsh manner, although I wouldnt go nearly as far as the post you quoted. That is very, very different from asking for bans or balancing for pvp.

Take a Quote from Starship Troopers "Kill them, Kill them all!!"

The punishment system inside stations could be made so easy. Simply charge Zero rebuild cost inside stations. Then trader only looses cargo and not ship as well. As for the attacker a simple murder count system just like the rep system we have with system authorities. Kill 1 player you get -1 rep, 2 player -3 rep 3 players - 5 rep and so on. When you hit a set level you appear red to everybody in that area and are classed automatically as wanted. A real pirate will not care about this because they are thieves who have no ports to call home.

Even upon death these penalties stay in place as its all about reputation and not money... What do you think??

 

[Drakkir]

Heres a simple approach:

Delete OPEN from the menu. Then...

Create:

PVP - Everyone is fair game to everyone
PVE - Only NPC killing works, player ships take no damage from other players.
Solo - Same as now.

Voila! Problem solved.

 

[snotface]

Heres a simple approach:

Delete OPEN from the menu. Then...

Create:

PVP
PVE
Solo

Voila! Problem solved.

Then Pkers will cry as nobody will play in pvp

 

[Defacto]

Heres a simple approach:

Delete OPEN from the menu. Then...

Create:

PVP - Everyone is fair game to everyone
PVE - Only NPC killing works, player ships take no damage from other players.
Solo - Same as now.

Voila! Problem solved.

PvP - Open
PvE - Mobius
Solo - Solo

No need for the developers to do anything. Let them focus on important stuff instead.

 

[snotface]

Ive already put forwards a solution that will be fair but harsh and END station griefing entirely.

On the first offence of opening fire in a station:

IMMEDIATE 25k bounty applied to the player.
Docking permission for that station is permanently revoked and they may NEVER land at that station again.
Player ship is destroyed by the station in a single shot and NOT offered the chance of ANY insurance.


On the SECOND offence:

Any current bounty for the faction whos territory the player is in, is immediately tripled.
The players ship is immediately destroyed in a single shot, no insurance is offered.
The player is forever banned from landing in any station controlled by that faction.
The player is forbidden to come within 100km of any station controlled by that faction on pain of death.
Whenever the player enters territory controlled by that faction, they are actively hunted down by system authorities and security.
A KOS marker is placed on the player, granting everyone in the factions territory the right to kill and claim the bounty on said player with or without a warrant scanner.
Dying does not negate these penalties and clearing the save file does nothing to these penalties either.

Harsh? Yeah...but no one will ever grief in a station again. The current Dev offered solutions dont solve the problem. This will.

Very imaginative, but still it solves nothing as they will kill each other for the bounties.

Its much easier to have a Rep system as I said in previous post. If you do missions for factions you get good rep, kill them your rep goes down fast. Do the same with human rep. kill players your rep drops fast. kill too many in your life time and you are red all the time and contiunuoisly wanted, unless in Anarchy systems. Oh and it does not go upon death..

How many PK squad members want to die over Zero credits? answer none. That's true punishment

 

[Zeeman]

I shouldn't have to do that. There's an immediate solution that Frontier could implement, which is making Player-on-player attacks do no damage.

Z...

 

[Sandmann]

I just don't support people who want to do that complaining that everyone who enjoys PvP is also a griefer.

Nope, but every griefer IS also a PvPer.

 

[Gibbonici]

Nothing ever is. even with balancing for pking there's always going to be somethings that slip through the cracks. It just seems that the more passive play style majority on the forums are concerned with enacting draconian changes to remove pvp from open.

I don't have a dog in this race at all (I'm neither a trader nor a pirate or PKer, and I'm rarely in populated space anyway), but it looks like a pretty even split to me. There are at least as many pro-PvP threads as anti ones, and a lot of forum members don't even post on either type with any regularity. It's the same handful of names doing most of the posting.

And it's always, always worth putting the forum in perspective. We represent at tiny minority of the playerbase, and our arguments and discussions are coloured by previous arguments and discussions that have polarised us more than we were before we ever posted here. We're not a representative sample of the Elite community, and neither are our opinions.

We're just a bunch of people who like talking about the game.

A lot.

 

[Distance]

I feel like we are reading totally different forums. I don't recall ever seeing anyone tons of people, nor even really a few people, asking for permabans on PKs or removing PvP from Open. People are asking for the risk / reward balance to be reworked, because currently there is a ton of risk and loss on the shoulders of the traders, and no risk or loss on the shoulders of the pks and pirates.

I admit I blew it up a bit with the "permabans" but the sentiment remains. Pvpers want the risk reward mechanics sorted out. It's because of subtle cause and effect through broken game mechanics that have bought us to this situation now. Take piracy for example :

If you pirate an npc hauler, drop it's hull to 10% whilst shooting out it's cargo hatch to get it to drop it doesn't act logically and run away it turns around and attacks you whilst you're scooping. If you use limpets after shooting shields, they still attack you whilst scooping. You can't request npcs drop their goods so you fire first.

If you can't pve correctly using the game mechanics then you turn to pvp. You can comms a commander to drop their goods but this isn't realistic because of a broken interdiction mechanic. If you submit to an interdiction there's no fsd cool down so the time you take asking the target to drop goods they've already started charging fsd (this is getting fixed soon)and can jump out before you can remove shields and limpet or shoot hatch.

The logical thing to do for a pvp pirate is to interdict and go in guns blazing so the target can't run before you can access their cargo hatch. If you get lucky you can get some cargo and it's more likely a player will run away. Unfortunately there's also an alt+f4 exploit so traders will combat log.

Now given the above any trader who gets interdicted and shot straight away doesn't know about the broken piracy mechanics and would just see "greifer". I'm not apologizing for true griefers or pkers but there's one logical turn of events that due to broken game mechanics people can misconstrue what is intended.

There is still a lot of risk on the hands of the pirate. A simple cost per hour difference between a trader and a pirate (especially when the pirating mechanics are so broken) will show a glaring difference. Considering the piracy route isn't as easy and supercruising from system to system a lot of people don't understand how piracy works. I suggest any trader who thinks piracy is the easy option takes out a viper or cobra and spends 6 hours or pure pirate play to see the difference.

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Nope, but every griefer IS also a PvPer.

A Type 9 trader dropping tons of biowaste in front of a starport isn't pvping but is greifing . . .

EDIT : My reply to Dabba took so long as I had to remove nail polish from my 2 year old's butt hole. If that isn't greifing I don't know what it

 

[Helvellyn]

The game is a bit too unexciting at the moment and the risk (even if it's from a nutter who I'd probably not like any more IRL than in game) does make it a bit more interesting. That's true even when they never get as far as opening fire on you. One of my more memorable trips involved a CMDR Asp acting rather suspiciously when I was in a Sidewinder, seemed to be angling towards me, I popped in and out of supercruise, he lurked near the station and seemed to be heading my way when I got close and so on. A game of cat and mouse that made what would've normally been a dull, routine trip memorable, whatever his motives may have been.

On the other hand those who just open fire on easy targets seem like the same sort of people who are doing the station missile thing, and they're doing it for the same reasons, and it's hard to have anything good to say about people I'd rather didn't exist. But like I said, they make the game a bit more interesting all the same. All it really needs is a bit more of a convincing, living universe which would drive them to the more dangerous parts, the dark alleys of the galaxy where you should expect to get mugged for your wallet, or even just because a lunatic is looking for a fight. Just give some incentives for people to risk going there in Open...

 

[AgentGB]

Then Pkers will cry as nobody will play in pvp

i don't think, their more trouble then their worth, they are already trying to poison the pvp well, what will happen is, when solo players have grinded enough credits via solo/group, they will migrate over to open either to go on a killing spree of there own, or revel in the pvp, and when they eventually get served up, retreat back to solo with their tail between their legs after they have made a thread about it.

 

[snotface]

Nope, but every griefer IS also a PvPer.

Not exactly true. All the trouble makers are PVP players. Some pvp players do not kill their victims, others do but that is the nature of PVP. The trouble makers (I'm not going to use your description) do not have any honour at all. They say there is no honour among thieves they will steal from their own. Well there may be PKers who enjoy causing trouble, but only a handful of them are actual real PVP PKers the rest just are wantabies.....

 

[Sandmann]

IA Type 9 trader dropping tons of biowaste in front of a starport isn't pvping but is greifing . . .

I must be missing something here... I can see how it'd be amusing, but I can't see how it'd cause any grief? Unless you are hiding mines in the poo cloud?

EDIT : My reply to Dabba took so long as I had to remove nail polish from my 2 year old's butt hole. If that isn't greifing I don't know what it

Oh... well umm. Now you know why I never had kids.

 

[Titus Balls]

Love it!! All the griefers love to fall back on the excuse of "it's Elite Dangerous."

Well so it is, you reap what you sow. I'll bet they moan and cry that it's unfair, though...

Oh you again? Congratulations you've now become the first person added to my ignore list on the forums.

Mostly due to your continued odious, unpalatable posts. Not all of them, but the one's in threads like these that are usually one liners that amount to no more than LOLZ and don't contribute to the overall minutiae.

 

[Distance]

Not exactly true. All the trouble makers are PVP players. Some pvp players do not kill their victims, others do but that is the nature of PVP. The trouble makers (I'm not going to use your description) do not have any honour at all. They say there is no honour among thieves they will steal from their own. Well there may be PKers who enjoy causing trouble, but only a handful of them are actual real PVP PKers the rest just are wantabies.....

That's also a blanket statement. I've seen more posts from traders crushing innocent sidewinders whilst docking and laughing about it than people laughing about pvp greifing. Whilst the new player might understand that being shot by another player is part of the gameplay even if they don't enjoy it they're more likely to be annoyed about someone with 500 million credits wiping them out on their first docking attempt.

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I must be missing something here... I can see how it'd be amusing, but I can't see how it'd cause any grief? Unless you are hiding mines in the poo cloud?



Oh... well umm. Now you know why I never had kids.

If you're an unshielded trader, try driving through a cloud of canisters and see how your hull fares See how many people crash in to the station trying to avoid it.

Having kids is the most effective form of birth control. I suggest all teenagers have to spend a week watching the same 3 shows on cartoon network whilst been hit in the head by a plastic truck by a drunken dwarf. That will do more for unwanted pregnancies than any other social outreach program ever has.

 

[DYSEQTA]

We can move on when Frontier introduces reasonably realistic AI response to extreme criminal behaviour and also makes plug-pulling pointless. At that point both ends of the problem candle will be put out.

 

[Sandmann]

Not exactly true. All the trouble makers are PVP players. Some pvp players do not kill their victims, others do but that is the nature of PVP. The trouble makers (I'm not going to use your description) do not have any honour at all. They say there is no honour among thieves they will steal from their own. Well there may be PKers who enjoy causing trouble, but only a handful of them are actual real PVP PKers the rest just are wantabies.....

Don't misunderstand me, I didn't say (or mean) that all pvp is griefing, there's plenty of perfectly fine PvP pewpew if you're into that sort of thing. I'm also quite happy to agree that griefers have no honour, but that's not relevant to what I was saying. All griefing is PvP by definition, because it is an act committed by one player to cause another player grief. There's no point in griefing an NPC, and NPC's don't grief players so it can't be PvE. It's ONLY ever a PvP action.