PvP Frontier created PVP gankers. By design.

[Rat Catcher]

The most important lesson I learned is, if I WANT to feel some risk and challenge, I fly in Open - the "hollow triangle" on the radar creates an adrenaline rush that isn't really available elsewhere in the game. However, if I just want to get something done and don't want the hassle, I fly in Solo/PG.

I've lost count of how many times I've been blown up by other players, but most were in the first year of playing I think. It didn't bother me then and these days is more likely to make me chuckle than annoyed as I'd be certain it was my own fault...

But... I also play far more often in a group nowadays than in open, as there are things I wish to get on with without random distractions - if I'm just messing around I'll be in open and anyone is welcome to come along and shoot at me, if they are in a dedicated PvP ship they may even blow me up... It won't bother me in the least.

 

[oblivionmanman 2476]

I've lost count of how many times I've been blown up by other players, but most were in the first year of playing I think. It didn't bother me then and these days is more likely to make me chuckle than annoyed as I'd be certain it was my own fault...

But... I also play far more often in a group nowadays than in open, as there are things I wish to get on with without random distractions - if I'm just messing around I'll be in open and anyone is welcome to come along and shoot at me, if they are in a dedicated PvP ship they may even blow me up... It won't bother me in the least.

great minds think alike,when i got intridicted on a cg,i submitted,and went to make a coffee,ganker must of been frustrated lol,no fight, no deployed weapons,nice coffee,but he still destroyed me lol,wish i could of seen his face,my hero ha ha

 

[Rat Catcher]

great minds think alike,when i got intridicted on a cg,i submitted,and went to make a coffee,ganker must of been frustrated lol,no fight, no deployed weapons,nice coffee,but he still destroyed me lol,wish i could of seen his face,my hero ha ha

I've done that a few times too! It is even more fun to drop shields even before the first shot, and just 10% thruster toward them

I do only have 2 exploration ships that are very lightweight, but they are FC launched so are generally far enogh out of the way to net even have NPC's anywhere near.

 

[SergMx]

Today I heard that the developers are trying not to separate the game of people and NPCs.
Well, that's great. In my opinion, one minimal change in the game can be done with ganking!
But I do not want to write right away in the proposal as there may be clear disadvantages that I do not see. And would like to hear it here.

Proposal :
If a pilot (it does not matter NPC or man) kills another pilot, without special conditions, then there are special forces and arrest him. He ends up in prison and his ship with all the modules is destroyed.
Special conditions :

• You complete the kill-mission of the game.
• You are playing a PP and this is the Enemy.
• The victim's ship had more than 1t of cargo.

Look closely at the last point, so YOU don't get cheated and set up, YOU must have a cargo scanner.

 

[0B]

Today I heard that the developers are trying not to separate the game of people and NPCs.
Well, that's great. In my opinion, one minimal change in the game can be done with ganking!
But I do not want to write right away in the proposal as there may be clear disadvantages that I do not see. And would like to hear it here.

Proposal :
If a pilot (it does not matter NPC or man) kills another pilot, without special conditions, then there are special forces and arrest him. He ends up in prison and his ship with all the modules is destroyed.
Special conditions :

• You complete the kill-mission of the game.
• You are playing a PP and this is the Enemy.
• The victim's ship had more than 1t of cargo.

Look closely at the last point, so YOU don't get cheated and set up, YOU must have a cargo scanner.

I mean, what you're talking about at the end kind of already happens if NPC security forces somehow defeat the player in combat. They already have to eat a rebuy.

If you are suggesting that they do not get said rebuy, I am strongly against this.

 

[SergMx]

I mean, what you're talking about at the end kind of already happens if NPC security forces somehow defeat the player in combat. They already have to eat a rebuy.

If you are suggesting that they do not get said rebuy, I am strongly against this.

I guess not everything is clear.
This proposal very simply without any disadvantages gives an end to ganking in the game.

Now if a ganker wants to just kill someone he has to:
Install a cargo scanner on the ship.
Scan the ship for cargo, and if by this time the ship has not dropped the cargo, he can kill him.

Otherwise he just loses his ship with all modules. Ever had a NPC after scanning your empty ship to kill YOU?
Automatically all gankers turn into real pirates.
For example, you do not bring anything YOU intercepted ganker and with the words - poverty, flew away.
You are carrying something, you intercepted the hunker and began to scan your ship, YOU one button dropping your cargo or fight. THIS is your choice.

 

[SergMx]

I understand correctly that my proposal has no disadvantages and can be published in the suggestions section?

 

[Screemonster]

you do not understand correctly

 

[SergMx]

you do not understand correctly

So I wanted to hear the real negative on this proposal, but for some reason it is not.
Thus, it is easy and simple to end gankers in the game and increase piracy.

 

[antiriad]

So I wanted to hear the real negative on this proposal, but for some reason it is not.
Thus, it is easy and simple to end gankers in the game and increase piracy.

I think you're missing the point that there can be many other reasons for a CMDR attacking another CMDR beyond Piracy or "Ganking".

Also, the game doesn't differentiate between CMDRs and NPCs - are you suggesting that the same penalties be applied to a CMDR who destroys an NPC ship without scanning their cargo?

EDIT: Also, to be "arrested" would be a significant immersion breaker! I have NEVER attacked another CMDR that didn't attack me first, but I would 100% oppose this suggestion

 

[0B]

I understand correctly that my proposal has no disadvantages and can be published in the suggestions section?

1) Even if an idea has disadvantages it ought to be put in the suggestions section. I doubt that there's any perfect solution, and just because nobody's quickly replying to you doesn't mean there aren't any disadvantages
2) There's still a lot of parts of your proposal that are confusing

• "special forces" - When you said this, I thought you just meant system authorities that are slightly more dangerous. Is this what you mean?
• "arrest"- How does this work? If the NPC manages to beat the PC in combat, do they simply knock out the power on their ship (or similar) instead of blowing them up?
• "prison"- When you said this, I assumed you meant the same place you go if you pay fines. Is this what you mean?

Then there's other things:

• How does your system apply to suicidewinders and other potential tricks folks might use to sic system authorities on another player? Don't assume that this is easy to debug/fix by Fdev, since it's clearly against the spirit of the game but hasn't been fixed after 5+ years.
• How do you deal with two players who are friends and want to PVP each other? Or even strangers who both agree to PVP and are not part of powerplay? Are they both arrested, or only the one who shot first?
• How is this affected by if I decide to preemptively attack someone I know to be a ganker/pirate, assuming they don't currently have a bounty, but I know they sit in Deciat or elsewhere all day? Am I now going to be arrested?
• What's your estimate on how long everything you've described would take to code, test, and implement in production?

 

[Screemonster]

How does it deal with someone I know is working against me in the BGS, for instance someone that's bounty hunting without a KWS in a system that I'm trying to flip, and thereby supporting the controlling faction?
edit: in fact, forget the bounty hunting - if I'm attacking a system's BGS in general through the medium of violence and a hollow-box target of opportunity happens to present itself, that's not ganking for the lulz, it's playing the BGS. The action is very difficult to distinguish from a gank.
The ultimate flaw in any automated system to punish "ganking" is that it's the intent that's the problem.

 

[antiriad]

The ultimate flaw in any automated system to punish "ganking" is that it's the intent that's the problem.

Exactly this. Just a couple of days ago, I went bounty hunting at a CNB in my fully G5 Corvette. A group of the wanted ships there were attacking a poor little Cobra. I brought all my weapons to bear on the wanted Anaconda that was leading the attack, and the Cobra just happened to fly into the path of destruction...

Instantly I've got a bounty and notoriety. In the suggestion put forward, I would entirely lose my G5 Corvette? Erm, no thanks!

 

[SergMx]

I think you're missing the point that there can be many other reasons for a CMDR attacking another CMDR beyond Piracy or "Ganking".

Also, the game doesn't differentiate between CMDRs and NPCs - are you suggesting that the same penalties be applied to a CMDR who destroys an NPC ship without scanning their cargo?

Yes. Because NPC when attacking YOU always scans YOU and if you are empty, it swears and flies away. Someone wrote that there should not be a division on the NPC and human!

 

[SergMx]

"special forces" - When you said this, I thought you just meant system authorities that are slightly more dangerous. Is this what you mean?

Yes. Well any ships that YOU can't get away from and that will always kill YOU.

"arrest"- How does this work? If the NPC manages to beat the PC in combat, do they simply knock out the power on their ship (or similar) instead of blowing them up?

Maybe I didn't understand you. You are killed, you are reborn in the nearest prison, YOU lose your ship completely.

How does your system apply to suicidewinders and other potential tricks folks might use to sic system authorities on another player? Don't assume that this is easy to debug/fix by Fdev, since it's clearly against the spirit of the game but hasn't been fixed after 5+ years.

I don't quite understand YOU, and how that relates to this question, need more detail.

How do you deal with two players who are friends and want to PVP each other? Or even strangers who both agree to PVP and are not part of powerplay? Are they both arrested, or only the one who shot first?

Lots of options, agree to meet in anarchy, both take a cargo scanner and 1t of anything, etc.
And when a contracted battle it should be to the death?

How is this affected by if I decide to preemptively attack someone I know to be a ganker/pirate, assuming they don't currently have a bounty, but I know they sit in Deciat or elsewhere all day? Am I now going to be arrested?

Is it clean?

 

[SergMx]

How does it deal with someone I know is working against me in the BGS, for instance someone that's bounty hunting without a KWS in a system that I'm trying to flip, and thereby supporting the controlling faction?
edit: in fact, forget the bounty hunting - if I'm attacking a system's BGS in general through the medium of violence and a hollow-box target of opportunity happens to present itself, that's not ganking for the lulz, it's playing the BGS. The action is very difficult to distinguish from a gank.
The ultimate flaw in any automated system to punish "ganking" is that it's the intent that's the problem.

Read my post carefully, it's right next to PP vs BGS

 

[SergMx]

Exactly this. Just a couple of days ago, I went bounty hunting at a CNB in my fully G5 Corvette. A group of the wanted ships there were attacking a poor little Cobra. I brought all my weapons to bear on the wanted Anaconda that was leading the attack, and the Cobra just happened to fly into the path of destruction...

Instantly I've got a bounty and notoriety. In the suggestion put forward, I would entirely lose my G5 Corvette? Erm, no thanks!

Are you sure he asked for help?
If you decide to help someone and accidentally kill him, does that make him feel better who killed him?
Maybe he thinks YOU helped them.
Under the new rules, you'll be 100% right if you take a scanner, scan Cobra and see that it's empty and watch as after killing Cobra they arrest all these guys.

 

[antiriad]

Are you sure he asked for help?
If you decide to help someone and accidentally kill him, does that make him feel better who killed him?
Maybe he thinks YOU helped them.
Under the new rules, you'll be 100% right if you take a scanner, scan Cobra and see that it's empty and watch as after killing Cobra they arrest all these guys.

I really wasn't trying to help him, as such. I was BOUNTY HUNTING - he just got in the way, of his own accord. For all I know, he committed suicide. Nothing I could do about it really - it was merely an unfortunate accident. Why would I have scanned a ship I had no interest in? Why would I carry a cargo scanner when I have no interest in the cargo of ANY other ships?

This was just a recent example, but there are many, many other examples of why your idea is not a workable option.

Having said that, please could you explain how this "arrest" works? I know others have asked, but you've not explained. There is no such mechanism in the game at present.

 

[0B]

How does it deal with someone I know is working against me in the BGS, for instance someone that's bounty hunting without a KWS in a system that I'm trying to flip, and thereby supporting the controlling faction?
edit: in fact, forget the bounty hunting - if I'm attacking a system's BGS in general through the medium of violence and a hollow-box target of opportunity happens to present itself, that's not ganking for the lulz, it's playing the BGS. The action is very difficult to distinguish from a gank.
The ultimate flaw in any automated system to punish "ganking" is that it's the intent that's the problem.

Ah, see I'm unfamiliar with BGS. This is also an important consideration, since unlike Powerplay participation is not tracked by Fdev.

Yes. Well any ships that YOU can't get away from and that will always kill YOU.

I strongly disagree. "Rocks fall everyone dies" is awful game design. If you want to prevent a player from doing something in a game, you make it mechanically impossible. If you want to deter a player, you present them with a credible, difficult obstacle that has a chance of being overcome. Anything else is sadism.

Maybe I didn't understand you. You are killed, you are reborn in the nearest prison, YOU lose your ship completely.

That makes sense. So it's a normal death + teleport. You always lose your ship when you die, so this is fine.

I don't quite understand YOU, and how that relates to this question, need more detail.

Suicidewinders pick cheap ships and ram into players who are speeding by a station. This kills the suicidewinder, and causes the speeding player to gain notoriety for murder (And then get attacked by station security). This means that players affected by this type of griefing are subject to the same consequences as gankers in your scenario

Lots of options, agree to meet in anarchy, both take a cargo scanner and 1t of anything, etc.
And when a contracted battle it should be to the death?

Makes sense to me, but this is needlessly complicated for others

Is it clean?

?????

 

[SergMx]

I really wasn't trying to help him, as such. I was BOUNTY HUNTING - he just got in the way, of his own accord. For all I know, he committed suicide. Nothing I could do about it really - it was merely an unfortunate accident. Why would I have scanned a ship I had no interest in? Why would I carry a cargo scanner when I have no interest in the cargo of ANY other ships?

This was just a recent example, but there are many, many other examples of why your idea is not a workable option.

Having said that, please could you explain how this "arrest" works? I know others have asked, but you've not explained. There is no such mechanism in the game at present.

A bounty hunter is a mission and it doesn't fall under this rule, read my suggestion.
No, I'm making a suggestion.