Frontier - Enough Shoulder Shrugging - Get Tough on Exploits and Exploiters.

Dbrn47 · Jun 7, 2017

krylite said:
"or the use of any possible bugs in the game to generate player advantage."

- from FD. That sounds encompassing. Many exploits can be due to said bugs. Even 'possible' ones.

Everything is an exploit, confirmed. Consider yourselves all banned. [rolleyes]

Arvel Yael · Jun 7, 2017

Ziggy Stardust said:
You mean the developers?

I mean anyone who I have to share a star system with.
Thanks to open, my first reaction to seeing another player nearby is to check their wanted level and put power to weapons. For me, ED is not so much a social "let's enjoy this together" game, as an antisocial "get away from me!" game.

krylite · Jun 7, 2017

Dbrn47 said:
Everything is an exploit, confirmed. Consider yourselves all banned. [rolleyes]

May the reporting of possible bugs ensue!

space voyager · Jun 7, 2017

Theodrid said:
I think that applies in relation to legitimate in game 'terrorist' activities and roleplay, I consider it less relevant in terms of exploits and exploiters.

Agree very much. I don't know whether FD is afraid of losing players or what but they let the known explots not only unpunished but also exploitable for a time long enough for anyone interested to milk it until they get bored due to even explots being grind.

Ziggy Stardust · Jun 7, 2017

Arvel Yael said:
I mean anyone who I have to share a star system with.
Thanks to open, my first reaction to seeing another player nearby is to check their wanted level and put power to weapons. For me, ED is not so much a social "let's enjoy this together" game, as an antisocial "get away from me!" game.

This star system isn't big enough for the both of us!

Kinda see what you mean. At the start of 2.3 I went for the dolphin and the accompanying errands that go with upgrading the FSD. Since that was all in the Bubble, I though what the hey, it's just a Dolphin. Rebuy is cheap, lets play in Open. 4 interdictions during that time from CMDRs, no comms, just instant shooty boringness. The first couple I tried to be lighthearted about it. Awfully sorry CMDR, but it seems you accidentally hit my ship. After that, just flew around for a bit to indicate I wasn't logging or anything while being shot up. All the time thinking, so this is considered "fun" by some people. Strange.

Couldn't get away from the bubble fast enough.

duckofdeath · Jun 7, 2017

EUS said:
*If* a bug/exploit is reported, and *if* FD takes no action to rectify bug/exploit, there can be no actionable punishment.

That is actually not true. If Frontier lists certain behaviour as exploits, they can impose their chosen levels of punishments on you. It's their game. Their rules. If you don't like it, don't play it.
Let's just hope Frontier will get their indecisive thumb out of their a one day and fix the mess. If not, 99% on here will be spending all of their time on Star Citizen, come next year.

Friedenreich Xante · Jun 7, 2017

Arvel Yael said:
Blatant cheating is only disapproved of here. DCS World for example HAS a cheat submenu where cheats can actually be mapped to keyboard or joystick buttons. The cheats for Doom and Skyrim are well known, extremely publicised, and officially accepted.

It seems cheating is a problem because the game is online-only, and - outside of solo - forces players to interact with each other.
I'm the sort of player who believes that if I buy a game, whatever I do in it short of reverse engineering or altering the executable itself, is entirely my business. I appreciate that in ED, things such as invulnerability cheats or unlimited ammo cheats would have an indisputably negative impact on other players, which is why they're not in the game.

So there is something I want - a way to skip the grind and tedium - that I can't have because I have instead something I don't want - having to share the galaxy with a bunch of people who not only do I not see eye to eye with, but don't even look in the general direction of.

With Doom, for example, I'd play the game until about two thirds of the way through, get sick of the frames-counting "remember its moves" boss fights, and just cheat my way through the end of the game. When the credits rolled, I'd think "Enjoyed the story and atmosphere... the grinding, not so much. Still, I've seen all there is to see now, so I can ditch Doom and go and play the next new thing".

When ED gets tedious, I can't. It's grind, or play something else. Why? Because if I tried to skip the grind, that would negatively affect other players. A valid and fair point, but I personally would rather have the option to skip the grind, than the option to interact with other players.

Hell, I would buy a third hard drive and give ED several terabytes of hard disk space, if it meant that I had my own instance, running locally, on my computer, unaltered, unadjusted, untweaked, un-interfered with, with every single subsequent update.

But that's just me and I suspect in that, I'm strongly in the minority, so hey.

I'll continue playing of course. A few million credits here, a few million credits there, in the vain hope that I can get the next sparkly ship, and the game will suddenly - temporarily - become interesting again. Until the novelty wears off, then it's back to DCS World or Skyrim.

Ho Hum.

I see a legitimate request here, even if I'm not particularly attracted to cheating. Every player is entitled to experience the game the way he wants, as long as it doesn't affect other players negatively.

It would be possible to implement in the form of a cheat mode you can only activate in solo, and once activated, cannot be deactivated and bans you from Open mode and from groups who have chosen to ban cheat-activated accounts (could be toggled by the group leader and likewise could not be deactivated for the group).

The cheat mode could only be resetted if the CMDR is being reset.

Also, a cheat-activated account would not be able to join a faction or to do power play and would not be able to tag discovered stellar bodies.

That way, even within the very particular boundaries of ED with it's unique galaxy for every copy of the game, a cheat mode could exist and not affect those who want to play the game "vanilla".

If someone thinks this could be a thing feel free to post it in the suggestions forums. I'm not interested in that type of gameplay so I wouldn't.

Tiny_Rick · Jun 7, 2017

"Just wanted to let you know that we’ve identified accounts that have engaged in repeated and deliberate use of a game exploit which allowed people to gain a significant and unfair advantage with Engineering; we will be reviewing and taking action where we feel it is appropriate."

Soooo, just so I'm clear.... FD gets to write junk coding, and when people take advantage of said coding, somehow the players are in the wrong and get punished? How about you put that cute little hammer away and patch this crap, then we can talk about who deserves what for your poor programming. Sasake, tumang?

Pyrobee · Jun 7, 2017

duckofdeath;5586009Let's just hope Frontier will get their indecisive thumb out of their [I said:
a[/I] one day and fix the mess. If not, 99% on here will be spending all of their time on Star Citizen, come next year.

You're being optimistic about SC being out next year, doubt squadron 42 will vbe ready by then.

bitstorm · Jun 7, 2017

Tiny_Rick said:
"Just wanted to let you know that we’ve identified accounts that have engaged in repeated and deliberate use of a game exploit which allowed people to gain a significant and unfair advantage with Engineering; we will be reviewing and taking action where we feel it is appropriate."

Soooo, just so I'm clear.... FD gets to write junk coding, and when people take advantage of said coding, somehow the players are in the wrong and get punished? How about you put that cute little hammer away and patch this crap, then we can talk about who deserves what for your poor programming. Sasake, tumang?

Is this the, "well you left the door unlocked so I can't be blamed for stealing stuff can I" argument?

EUS · Jun 7, 2017

duckofdeath said:
That is actually not true. If Frontier lists certain behaviour as exploits, they can impose their chosen levels of punishments on you. It's their game. Their rules. If you don't like it, don't play it.
Let's just hope Frontier will get their indecisive thumb out of their a one day and fix the mess. If not, 99% on here will be spending all of their time on Star Citizen, come next year.

Devil's advocate: The onus is not on me to second guess what FD considers good/bad behavior, and up until today since I could not find mention of this latest "gameplay mechanic" on the "known issues" list, I have to presume this had been "working as intended". Now that there's an finally an official statement, going forward, users had best beware.

piy · Jun 7, 2017

iv not read all these posts. but I see
F.D. are aware and actually considering doing something. I think this is good news. Iv been getting fed rep for the last few weeks. I noticed the scan missions all complete with one scan so looked it up. quince. so I went there to see. good God. so.... hypothetically a friend could join the game....and really, within a day have any ship and lodeout that hes/She wants that's not rank locked. I do feel this is very very bad form. and needs addressing now....not in the next patch. I understand some people were frustrated at one point as thay did a server restart as thay added fixes and stuff. But it seems to me to have gone to far the other way. thay know about things. but don't do anything until the next major/semi patch. somethings need fixing asap. quince isn't a cheat or a scam. It's just a flaw I in the game that needs mending. this G5 DD is a clear bugg/exploit. thay can't take every ones credits off them for quince. but if thay can/have tracked the guys who have used the DD thing then I hope thay don't over react. just take the drive mod off them. no need to ban them. I feel this would hurt the community. take the mats and mod off them. let them work for it.

BL1P · Jun 7, 2017

piy said:
iv not read all these posts. but I see
F.D. are aware and actually considering doing something. I think this is good news. Iv been getting fed rep for the last few weeks. I noticed the scan missions all complete with one scan so looked it up. quince. so I went there to see. good God. so.... hypothetically a friend could join the game....and really, within a day have any ship and lodeout that hes/She wants that's not rank locked. I do feel this is very very bad form. and needs addressing now....not in the next patch. I understand some people were frustrated at one point as thay did a server restart as thay added fixes and stuff. But it seems to me to have gone to far the other way. thay know about things. but don't do anything until the next major/semi patch. somethings need fixing asap. quince isn't a cheat or a scam. It's just a flaw I in the game that needs mending. this G5 DD is a clear bugg/exploit. thay can't take every ones credits off them for quince. but if thay can/have tracked the guys who have used the DD thing then I hope thay don't over react. just take the drive mod off them. no need to ban them. I feel this would hurt the community. take the mats and mod off them. let them work for it.

The quince exploits where reported in January at the least.
Its taking far to long for Fdev to do anything about it.
Some, understandably so, feel that the quince exploits are now legitimate because Fdev have taken so long to address it.
Though for me exploiting for credits or for reduced material costs are the same.

orangiey · Jun 7, 2017

Hey - please see here for a statement - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...Exploit-Update

This is good news which I (and I am sure) most people agree with.

Now, so I don't fall foul of the law - what are the exploits/cheats?

I don't want to go to Reddit or YouTube to find out what people think should be classified exploits.

I want to know Frontier's officially acknowledged exploits - is there a list?

iFred · Jun 7, 2017

Hats off to the guy at FD who invented the gameplay concept that credits and ships are not the real measure of progress. Whoever did that: Chapaux. Its keeping away gold sellers, stupid farmers, exploit hunters and all the other stuff that normally comes with an MMO. Nobody is real affected by this "exploit", except the jealous department which is always whining when someone progresses faster than the guy himself.

I am really glad that this is a minor issue, except for the PvP´ers which thought they got gud and got pwned by max/max ships.

bitstorm · Jun 7, 2017

piy said:
if thay can/have tracked the guys who have used the DD thing then I hope thay don't over react. just take the drive mod off them.

I'm not sure taking the exploit modifications away would count as being penalized.

Like if I rob someone's car, the Police returning it to its rightful owner isn't really a penalty is it?

I mean if that's it I'll just rob another one and give you the finger, like Nightshady did in the other thread.

Frontier said:
We also do not tolerate the use of any exploits or the use of any possible bugs in the game to generate player advantage.

Any player caught cheating or taking advantage of any exploits or bugs will be penalised and could face a game ban.

Vasco Sapien · Jun 7, 2017

So whats this Engineer Exploit that Ed lewis is talking about. its a new one on me.
found a reddit on it, but it doesnt say what it is.

I engineer alot, actually enjoy it. But it take ages to get results. So now it seems we have an exploit with engineers as well.

Im wondering if any time sunk in game is worth it.

piy · Jun 7, 2017

BL1P said:
The quince exploits where reported in January at the least.
Its taking far to long for Fdev to do anything about it.
Some, understandably so, feel that the quince exploits are now legitimate because Fdev have taken so long to address it.
Though for me exploiting for credits or for reduced material costs are the same.

I agree. It's been there so long now it's normal. and it totally devalues the credits. to make them meaningless. only rank I.e. fed/Imp means anything. and the same missions do the same thing for me as a follow-up mission. for getting fed rep. i got my cutter doing it from system to system. now it's do a few info missions and I get lot's of 1mill plus scan missions. do one...get them all. It's a real shame. I can also totally understand why people want to "skip the grind". but thats how the game it advertised. fast dogfighting action. we know it's not that. coz it's elite. It's a real conundrum that I have no answer for. the damage to credits has been done.

on my phone. sorry for the spelling

MadDogMurdock · Jun 7, 2017

I'm no fan of the RNGineers grind but I feel that maximum banhammer is the only appropriate response on this.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/356352-Engineers-Exploit-Update

See pt. 2 of the exploit T&Cs

piy · Jun 7, 2017

I can see what your saying. and totally understand. I feel the real issue that should be looked at by FD is that these guys kept this exploit to themselves. call me a hippy.

but I really thing kicking someone from a game should be reserved for grander things than a RNG roll.

be aware I know nobody that plays this game. I have a few In my friends list from rifting but I'm on nobody's side but my own.