Frontier. Please make a PVE mode to this game.

[Darth Ender]

Not confusing at all - just disagreeing - pointing out that there's more to the game than combat and that players can achieve the highest rank in the other two paths without firing a shot, much less a shot at another player....



Roles in this game are optional - just as direct PvP is entirely optional - some players just don't get off on PvP (and some players do).

.... as to "can't be bad at exploring" - not every player makes it back with their data. Just as not every trader makes it to the intended destination and makes a profit on their wares.

If we're going to base the merits of the other "roles" in the game on how those who have failed to not fall asleep or maybe someone bought the game for people with special needs as a gift then simply configuring the controls is worthwhile gameplay.

If you set the bar low enough, i guess everything is awesome.

There's a reason why there's no limitless supply of threads talking about how trade or exploration is too hard or dangerous. It's because they're not. The struggle isn't with the mechanic, it's simply a test of enduring boredom and statistics. If you repeat the same task a million times, you're bound to mess up a couple of them.


I'm not advocating everyone be pvp. Or that everyone be pve. I'm saying the modes are fine as is. The game will never make any 1 group of players happy because FD insists on trying to build a game that caters to all kinds of gamers. Fighting them, even in this completely futile method, is a battle that you wont ever win. Nor should you. It shouldn't be something they're coerced into putting out. They should have a vision of what they want the game to be and put it out and if it alienates some players, then that's fine. All games do, so they can be great in the way they can. At least they hope they can be great. But you're guaranteed to not be great by targeting everyone.

 

[Connor Caple]

I'll borrow some points from this suggestion thread I made a little while back;

I'll have to find one of my threads about something I'm not really at all remotely biased about to quote so I can make a non-point too.

Thanks, ducks. Have a cookie.

 

[Globusdiablo]

I'm not sure if you read through my proposal thoroughly, but according to my proposal as far as I recall, I stated specifically that PvE flagged players can very much be untouched by another player despite being in the same instance.

As for "insisting others being my content." I'm unsure what you're categorizing as content. As far as I'm aware, if we take this forum for example, all of the users posting or simply have their user name existing on the forum are all "content" to me. Therefore, in PvE, having a player simply existing on my radar/contact list is "content."

So I'm confused, what isn't a content in the game?

I did read the entire thing some time ago. I remember it to be very well thought through. I just can't remember half of it...

So, flagging. Yes, this would work for me as well.

I'm sure you know what kind of content I'm referring to.

Carry on Commander.

 

[Lateralus]

I'll have to find one of my threads about something I'm not really at all remotely biased about to quote so I can make a non-point too.

Thanks, ducks. Have a cookie.

http://www.grindtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/cookiemonster.jpeg

Because nobody else here is biased are they 'ducks'?

 

[Robert Maynard]

I'll borrow some points from this suggestion thread I made a little while back;

1) Indeed - however, there's lore to suggest that damaging / destroying some ships should bring down the wrath of the Pilots' Federation;
2) I would argue to the contrary - an Open-PvE mode would permit those players in Solo / some Private Groups to coalesce into a single game mode rather than many fragments with reduced opportunities for co-operative play;
3) Indeed;
4) Players seeking those PvP pathways would have targets that wanted to be there rather than having to compromise between unlimited population and "contains PvP" in Open;
5) Probably - however Frontier have acknowledged that there are well aware that the majority of players do not get involved in PvP - so why is this a bad thing again? Catering to the majority seems a sensible thing to do....;
6) No more so than we already have with Solo and Private Groups (and the single shared galaxy state);
7) Not so - unless all NPCs became pacifists;
8) The sooner they do so, the better, in my opinion.

 

[Connor Caple]

If we're going to base the merits of the other "roles" in the game on how those who have failed to not fall asleep or maybe someone bought the game for people with special needs as a gift then simply configuring the controls is worthwhile gameplay.

If you set the bar low enough, i guess everything is awesome.

So, what you're saying is:

- - - Updated - - -

Because nobody else here is biased are they 'ducks'?

You book the wedding, I'll sort the catering..

 

[Robert Maynard]

If we're going to base the merits of the other "roles" in the game on how those who have failed to not fall asleep or maybe someone bought the game for people with special needs as a gift then simply configuring the controls is worthwhile gameplay.

If you set the bar low enough, i guess everything is awesome.

There's a reason why there's no limitless supply of threads talking about how trade or exploration is too hard or dangerous. It's because they're not. The struggle isn't with the mechanic, it's simply a test of enduring boredom and statistics. If you repeat the same task a million times, you're bound to mess up a couple of them.


I'm not advocating everyone be pvp. Or that everyone be pve. I'm saying the modes are fine as is. The game will never make any 1 group of players happy because FD insists on trying to build a game that caters to all kinds of gamers. Fighting them, even in this completely futile method, is a battle that you wont ever win. Nor should you. It shouldn't be something they're coerced into putting out. They should have a vision of what they want the game to be and put it out and if it alienates some players, then that's fine. All games do, so they can be great in the way they can. At least they hope they can be great. But you're guaranteed to not be great by targeting everyone.

The game is different things to different players.

While "the modes are fine as is" for you, that's only one datapoint. There are other players to consider - and Frontier recently confirmed that they are well aware that the majority of players do not get involved in PvP.

 

[Mengy]

If we're going to base the merits of the other "roles" in the game on how those who have failed to not fall asleep or maybe someone bought the game for people with special needs as a gift then simply configuring the controls is worthwhile gameplay.

If you set the bar low enough, i guess everything is awesome.

There's a reason why there's no limitless supply of threads talking about how trade or exploration is too hard or dangerous. It's because they're not. The struggle isn't with the mechanic, it's simply a test of enduring boredom and statistics. If you repeat the same task a million times, you're bound to mess up a couple of them.

No one is saying that trading and exploration are in great places in Elite, most of us have been pleading with Frontier to improve non-combat mechanics for a very, very long time now. However, their lackluster state does not mean they don't exist, which was your initial statement when you declared that "the whole point of playing Elite is to blow things up!!!". Combat may be the best aspect of the game, the most feature rich and fleshed out, but it's not the only reason to play Elite, not by a long shot, and in claiming that you were very incorrect.

 

[verminstar]

If we're going to base the merits of the other "roles" in the game on how those who have failed to not fall asleep or maybe someone bought the game for people with special needs as a gift then simply configuring the controls is worthwhile gameplay.

If you set the bar low enough, i guess everything is awesome.

There's a reason why there's no limitless supply of threads talking about how trade or exploration is too hard or dangerous. It's because they're not. The struggle isn't with the mechanic, it's simply a test of enduring boredom and statistics. If you repeat the same task a million times, you're bound to mess up a couple of them.


I'm not advocating everyone be pvp. Or that everyone be pve. I'm saying the modes are fine as is. The game will never make any 1 group of players happy because FD insists on trying to build a game that caters to all kinds of gamers. Fighting them, even in this completely futile method, is a battle that you wont ever win. Nor should you. It shouldn't be something they're coerced into putting out. They should have a vision of what they want the game to be and put it out and if it alienates some players, then that's fine. All games do, so they can be great in the way they can. At least they hope they can be great. But you're guaranteed to not be great by targeting everyone.

If the modes are fine as is, then pray tell us why the pvp crowd are here crying about how empty open is? Its saying one thing and practicing another...hypocritical some might say. Either you guys are happy or yer not...make yer minds up.

 

[Darth Ender]

The game is different things to different players.

While "the modes are fine as is", that's only one datapoint. There are other players to consider - and Frontier recently confirmed that they are well aware that the majority of players do not get involved in PvP.

How can they be? The network code in this game sucks hard. I can't even depend on being able to chat with another player that shows up on my online list. I can't even depend on chatting with another player that is winged up with me. Let alone the instancing of other players I'm not associated with at all in a given system. Plus you have billions of systems. Thousands in the bubble. The chances of pvp are synthetically created by these Community events. If CG's didn't exist, you would essentially end these relentless whine fests of players talking about being ganked by other players. There would be no choke point for anyone to target other players. They would be too spread out to make it worthwhile and too infrequent to trigger these cry-fests.

I dont know the future plans of FD or what they're aware of. They appear to be aware of a lot of things yet their decisions seem to be coming from people who dont play the game, except on twitch around release time. They've been aware of powerplay since they released it and look at how that's been improved. I wont hold my breath on them delivering what the PVE people want. I think they're own little reality distortion bubble is still holding strong and they think they can create a game that caters to pvp'ers, pve'ers and single players all successfully in the same universe in the same game.


I'm not saying people can't pretend to be an explorer or a trader or a psycho or etc. Obviously there are many things you can pretend to be in the game and progress in wealth and rank. I'm saying none of them except combat has been given any kind of skill-based mechanic to engage anything from the player above enduring boredom. I think that's bad but that's how it is right now and if your not really all that good at combat then you are playing a very ...very boring game. Mostly because combat is about the only thing this game put some effort into creating. The other roles are treated as afterthoughts and they are.

tldr, being bad at combat in this game is like trying to play Mario Brothers and sucking at killing bad guys but you play it because you are role playing your Mario as a fireman and you like sliding down flag poles.

 

[Globusdiablo]

If the modes are fine as is, then pray tell us why the pvp crowd are here crying about how empty open is? Its saying one thing and practicing another...hypocritical some might say. Either you guys are happy or yer not...make yer minds up.

I must admit that I enjoy this argument as well: "If you don't want PvP you have Group and Solo to hide in, but you have to play in Open because I want "easy" targets to shoot at". The argument does seem wanting...

 

[Herbrand]

Agreed. Either that or make ganking in Open not practical.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...tldr, being bad at combat in this game is like trying to play Mario Brothers and sucking at killing bad guys but you play it because you are role playing your Mario as a fireman and you like sliding down flag poles.

Ouch, you should stop before you make it worse for yourself. Statements as these make the rest of your arguments worthless. Or are you really so clueless as to the overall pedigree of this gaming community?

 

[Mengy]

Agreed. Either that or make ganking in Open not practical.

I sincerely hope that the C&P and karma systems do just that. Otherwise they will have failed.

 

[stevesideas]

How can they be? The network code in this game sucks hard. I can't even depend on being able to chat with another player that shows up on my online list. I can't even depend on chatting with another player that is winged up with me. Let alone the instancing of other players I'm not associated with at all in a given system. Plus you have billions of systems. Thousands in the bubble. The chances of pvp are synthetically created by these Community events. If CG's didn't exist, you would essentially end these relentless whine fests of players talking about being ganked by other players. There would be no choke point for anyone to target other players. They would be too spread out to make it worthwhile and too infrequent to trigger these cry-fests.

I dont know the future plans of FD or what they're aware of. They appear to be aware of a lot of things yet their decisions seem to be coming from people who dont play the game, except on twitch around release time. They've been aware of powerplay since they released it and look at how that's been improved. I wont hold my breath on them delivering what the PVE people want. I think they're own little reality distortion bubble is still holding strong and they think they can create a game that caters to pvp'ers, pve'ers and single players all successfully in the same universe in the same game.


I'm not saying people can't pretend to be an explorer or a trader or a psycho or etc. Obviously there are many things you can pretend to be in the game and progress in wealth and rank. I'm saying none of them except combat has been given any kind of skill-based mechanic to engage anything from the player above enduring boredom. I think that's bad but that's how it is right now and if your not really all that good at combat then you are playing a very ...very boring game. Mostly because combat is about the only thing this game put some effort into creating. The other roles are treated as afterthoughts and they are.

tldr, being bad at combat in this game is like trying to play Mario Brothers and sucking at killing bad guys but you play it because you are role playing your Mario as a fireman and you like sliding down flag poles.

IMO FD started on the wrong foot with the net-code from the start. If there is no major re-haul of that particular area then I don't expect the game to reach anywhere near the potential it could have, and TBH I don't expect a major re-haul. Just a continuation of lackluster bolt-ons that eventually become bland because of balancing/nerfing or don't work well from the start - am I being pessimistic ? Not sure, this is how I currently feel about ED.

 

[Robert Maynard]

How can they be? The network code in this game sucks hard. I can't even depend on being able to chat with another player that shows up on my online list. I can't even depend on chatting with another player that is winged up with me. Let alone the instancing of other players I'm not associated with at all in a given system. Plus you have billions of systems. Thousands in the bubble. The chances of pvp are synthetically created by these Community events. If CG's didn't exist, you would essentially end these relentless whine fests of players talking about being ganked by other players. There would be no choke point for anyone to target other players. They would be too spread out to make it worthwhile and too infrequent to trigger these cry-fests.

I dont know the future plans of FD or what they're aware of. They appear to be aware of a lot of things yet their decisions seem to be coming from people who dont play the game, except on twitch around release time. They've been aware of powerplay since they released it and look at how that's been improved. I wont hold my breath on them delivering what the PVE people want. I think they're own little reality distortion bubble is still holding strong and they think they can create a game that caters to pvp'ers, pve'ers and single players all successfully in the same universe in the same game.


I'm not saying people can't pretend to be an explorer or a trader or a psycho or etc. Obviously there are many things you can pretend to be in the game and progress in wealth and rank. I'm saying none of them except combat has been given any kind of skill-based mechanic to engage anything from the player above enduring boredom. I think that's bad but that's how it is right now and if your not really all that good at combat then you are playing a very ...very boring game. Mostly because combat is about the only thing this game put some effort into creating. The other roles are treated as afterthoughts and they are.

tldr, being bad at combat in this game is like trying to play Mario Brothers and sucking at killing bad guys but you play it because you are role playing your Mario as a fireman and you like sliding down flag poles.

Not every player enjoys combat - and, while you may not think that there is much to enjoy other than combat, I strongly suspect that there are others who disagree with that contention.

 

[GluttonyFang]

I did read the entire thing some time ago. I remember it to be very well thought through. I just can't remember half of it...

So, flagging. Yes, this would work for me as well.

I'm sure you know what kind of content I'm referring to.

Carry on Commander.

Oh I am aware of it, but the way you used the category is completely incompatible with how I treat non-PvP players in my proposal. Since you claim to have read my proposal, I'm confused as to why you believe I'm " [insisting] on non PvP players to be [my] content"?

I don't understand how can I insist on any player to become my content when said "content" is universal and bidirectional? My proposal doesn't force actual solo players into Open, either. So I am very confused as to what you mean despite having a rough idea of what you mean by "content."

 

[verminstar]

I must admit that I enjoy this argument as well: "If you don't want PvP you have Group and Solo to hide in, but you have to play in Open because I want "easy" targets to shoot at". The argument does seem wanting...

I remember when I first started here, the griefing was just getting into full swing. Anyone who complained was told git gud or go solo...was all over the forums.

Then loads of ppl went to solo, mobius or just plain quit...

Now there are one or two who I distinctly remember coming off with the gitgud line, have since changed their tune to solo ruining pvp open play...

Maybe they shouldnt have told us to go there...hindsight is a wonderful thing...so is common sense and basic intelligence but those appear to be lacking somewhat...

 

[Darth Ender]

I must admit that I enjoy this argument as well: "If you don't want PvP you have Group and Solo to hide in, but you have to play in Open because I want "easy" targets to shoot at". The argument does seem wanting...

there are two arguments being made here. One CG specific, one not.

The PVE people are crying because they want to do CG's and such without risk. NPC's are easy to either avoid or kill and CG's offer lots of reward for essentially much less effort than you would need under non-CG circumstances most of the time. So they're attractive in that way.

The PVP people are crying about allowing the above situation to exist outside of how the game currently works because CG's by their nature tend to effect the game in significant ways and there is no way to oppose them unless a second CG is specifically created to do just that. Their only option is to dissuade players from participating in the only way the game allows.


That's the CG debate.

The other debate is that PVE'rs are complaining that anywhere in the galaxy, they want to be not at risk of being attacked by a ship that is too hard for them to beat. They want to do that and be in "open".

The PVP'ers are worried that allowing that will essentially fragment the playerbase that exists in open now, making chance encounters of any kind even less likely than it already is.. And it's very unlikely outside of CG's or starting systems. Powerplay is just about the only thing that allows players to cross other human players in Open outside of CG's. Ironically, this player - player interaction is almost never hostile and when it is hostile, it's because of the powerplay roles. So not pointless murder.

It's less about wanting more players who can't fight to be in Open and more about not wanting the existing players to choose an easier mode to play in to accomplish everything you can in the mode that has the additional risk of pvp. Most players are lazy and will opt to the easiest mode of play that is still fun for them vs choosing one with more risk. The PvP'ers aren't upset about that possibility simply because it means their targets either go away or get much harder to find and difficult to kill. It's the risk of being attacked that is what makes the current Open mode more fun to those players. You can go years in Open and never be attacked or attack another player but it would still be more fun than playing in a mode where that's not even a possibility. And it can't work in a huge galaxy without numbers.

 

[Herbrand]

My mistake...day 2 of being in the game, I got chatting with some guys who claimed they could help me out. All I had to do was meet them outside the station at location X...

Now, I cant name names...against the rules...but I will say the group is fairly well known. They took their time killing me...told me they were helping me with my 'education'. Lets just say the group wasnt mobius thats fer sure.

My mistake? Bearing in mind I was a 2 day old sidewider..what was my mistake? Playing in open.

Just because you havent seen it doesnt instantly mean it doesnt happen to others...it does and no amount of sticking yer head in the sand will change that. Ive played fer 7 months ish...24 hours total time spent in open and that example was one of 5 times. I never logged, even though those cough sdc cough fellows actually explained to me how to...they dared me to saying they took bets on between themselves those who would log and who didnt.

That wasthe very definition of griefing...Im not against pvp per se, but that mentality is simply not what I consider to be worth playing in open for, I care not if its one time in a hundred, its still more often than I care for.

They are not worthy of my time, and honestly everyone else should just ignore them at the best of their abilities.